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Deuce Blue
05-06-2009, 18:50
I am working on my second generation guard army, and I am considering a few of the vehicles I want to arm with HK missiles. I wanted to get a general consensus on how effective, or completely ineffective some of you have been with the missile. For 10 pts, it isn't too much imo, to spend on the ability to always be able to have a shot at enemy armor, given you have los. I understand there is the issue of guard BS3, but I feel like for the low points cost and potential of the missile to turn 1 pop an enemy vehicle, justifies it. I guess I will see what you guys think.

Oh and its Friday!

Damocles8
05-06-2009, 18:54
do it, throw in the Hellstrike missiles on the Valkyrie and you're set.....

Penitent
05-06-2009, 19:01
I feel like the only way to reliably get kills from HK missiles is to field them en masse (as in, on multiple vehicles) and saturate a target with them.

They aren't statistically likely to do much (except perhaps against light armor), between the BS 3, the same odds as a krak missile for armor pen (50/50 at best against AV 12...bleah), and the vehicle damage chart.

I'd be inclined to spend my points elsewhere.

SPYDER68
05-06-2009, 19:05
BS 3... Only way youll get rear armor is from Al'Rahem's outflanking chimer'as or Creeds squad that outflanks. and on sentinals...

I doubt somone will have rear armor facing you any other time when the range would be good.

Charistoph
05-06-2009, 19:10
BS 3... Only way youll get rear armor is from Al'Rahem's outflanking chimer'as or Creeds squad that outflanks. and on sentinals...

I doubt somone will have rear armor facing you any other time when the range would be good.

Ah, but if it's a transport full of Berzerkers, or other melee dedicated unit, and then they have to foot slog it all the way across an IG killing field? It could easily make it's points back, provided you have good penetration rolls.

SPYDER68
05-06-2009, 19:14
for 10 pts a missle thou... that will add up fast if you take multiples... Guard shouldnt have issues with stopping armor 11 from getting across the table throu the power of Cheapo AutoCannons and other heavy weapons.

Fire Harte
05-06-2009, 19:23
Stick them on sentinels and outflank.

If you end up on the wrong side you've got unlimited range. It's a lot better when you have a missile launcher equaling 6 shots. That can beat up stuff. Oh and if you end up close to the vehicle you can charge in!

kultz
05-06-2009, 19:34
Awfully expensive for a single shot.

I have issues convincing myself to field them, and I play Spess Mehrens.

For the cost of enough missiles to make a difference, you could just field sentinels or something and strap missile on them.

Hell, take Space-Rambo and use him as a suicide bomber would net you better results for less.

I fail to understand GW's reason for the uselessness of HK missiles.

Penitent
05-06-2009, 19:40
I fail to understand GW's reason for the uselessness of HK missiles.

I assume you meant "usefulness" :)

I agree; a one-shot krak missile just isn't worth 10 points. I wouldn't reliably expect one to kill a single space marine, let alone most vehicles.

If they were given a stat boost, say in the vein of the Valk's missiles or something, I'd consider them.

kultz
05-06-2009, 20:07
Funny, I don't see the sentence making much sense with the word 'usefulness'. Perhaps I'm missing something. Online communication is known for its ability to be misunderstood.

If they were reloadable or something, I wouldn't mind spending about 20 points for them.

Or, if they stay as children's fireworks, I can't bring myself buying them for anything above 10 points. Hell, about 8 points at best.

noobzor
05-06-2009, 20:08
Yeah, they really are too expensive, especially @ BS3. Use the points for more infantry. Or meltaguns.

Peril
05-06-2009, 20:21
Sentinels. Outflank.

Epicenter
05-06-2009, 20:40
HK missiles are a bit too rich for my blood for their cost + BS3. They're so bad that Space Marines got their cheapened to the same as the IG HKs except IG HKs are BS3.

That doesn't mean HK missiles are useless, but I don't find them very competitive or effective for their cost. They need something else - AP1 or they count-as being twin-linked when they fire or a further points reduction.

All that said, there's some units in the IG army I'd flirt with getting HKs on:

* Scout Sentinels. Even if you arm the Scout Sentinel with a lascannon, you can often get a side shot (or if you're lucky, a rear shot) with them. However, a single BS3 lascannon is likely to miss. An autocannon is likely to score a single hit, but I don't like the odds of penetrating side armor (AV12 or so on average) with a single autocannon shot. So an HK missile is a good way of trying to get another damage result.

* Chimera and Hellhound variants (except the Devil Dog). I wouldn't stick them on all of them, but if you have a lot of Chimera and Hellhound hulls (say, you're mech) it's worth it to put HKs on a few vehicles. This is less because of actual effectiveness but the fact that your opponent can't ignore those Chimera when he's figuring out "what can hurt my armor?" - it'll create dilemmas which will further dilute his AT fire at your units.

EVIL INC
05-06-2009, 20:48
I personally put them on outflanking sentinals and hellhounds. Beyond that, I feel they are redundant.

The Base
05-06-2009, 20:54
In general the are considered a good choice.

The reason being with the unlimited range you can get shots that your opponent is not expecting.

However personally I don't have any in my current guard army

Bunnahabhain
05-06-2009, 21:53
Outflanking , armour hunting sentinals is the main place they're of any use. I'd not though of Epicentres idea, it sounds worth trying.

In general though, at 10pts for one BS3 shot, with the stupid vehicle weapon rules means they are not worth it in most circumstances. At 5pts each, or twin linked, or AP1, or a machine spirit type rule, so they could be fired more usefully, then I'd be considerably more interested.

ehlijen
05-06-2009, 22:38
Hunter Killers are ok if the vehicle has no other AT weapons or weapons with a decent range; it gives you the option to do something when none of your other weapons would be useable.
For example:
Sentinels with heavy flamers
Banewolfs with heavy flamers
Chimearas
LR Punishers with HBs

But they're generally too expensive to add as extra AT weapons on vehicles that are already AT, as they would drive the cost of an already expensive unit up.

And on top of that, they're not defensive so only the sentinels would not have to give up another weapon's worth of shooting to use them.

Ekranoplan
05-06-2009, 23:04
I have always been tempted to just put an HK missile on all of my chimeras, but its not the most effective use of points. It would be fun to give Chimeras some anti tank punch like that. I would never put HK missiles on a LRBT or any of the varients (maybe on a Vanquisher)

Jackmojo
05-06-2009, 23:25
I'm not a fan in general, but I can see a use if you put them on hydras to help with the skimmer smacking (since they'll benefit from the hydra's special rules), but this would only really be worth is versus Eldar or Valkyrie heavy guard.

Jack

Treadhead_1st
05-06-2009, 23:46
I'd thought about putting one on a Vanquisher - with 3x AT weapons it might stand a chance of killing a vehicle first turn.

I think they're great if you have points spare as they either complement the vehicle's abilities or they allow it to provide "surprise" attacks on enemy vehcles from otherwise-unthreatening platforms.

Sircyn
06-06-2009, 00:04
Ten points for a BS3 one shot krak missile? No thanks! I don't pay 15pts for one in a line squad that can fire all game and has the option of frag launchers, because it's still too expensive and a mediocre weapon.

If I am buying a one shot weapon I want it to be awesome and have a chance of doing some damage, hunter killer missiles have neither of those attributes . I'd rather spend those ten points (or heavens forbid that I spend even more on multiples of the things!) on something that will be able to be useful in my army, every turn of the game.

Buff the HK missile, make it defensive or drop its points and then I may reconsider for some vehicles. Atm to me a HK would just look like bloating on my list that I can trim to put elsewhere.