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BigBossOgryn
08-06-2009, 11:32
I keep meaning to ask these but keep forgetting :confused: and now have enough for a threads worth.

Eye of the Gods:
I know it say that you can't gain a roll on this for running down a character but do you gain a role for running down a large target? The rule would imply so.

Chosen, Chosen of the Dark Gods:
If Valkia is present in the army, do the Chosen get the re-roll on their pre-game gift. I would have said no because Valkia's rule says: 'while she is on the table' but thought I would double check anyway.

Giant, Pick Up and Hurl:
I presume a model that survives this is just placed back with the unit it was originally from?

The Father of Blades:
Does the effect of this weapon apply before or after re-rolls or is it any 1's regardless?

Rending Sword:
Does this effect only apply in combat? Seems a bit odd considering Bloodcurdling Roar is available.

Whip of Subversion:
'...owning model's comat resolution' does this refer to the bearer of the Whip or the unlucky victim?

Armour of Damnation:
How does this work with things that allow re-rolls to hit from the attacker i.e. Hatred?

Chaos Runeshield:
Pretty sure I know the answer to this (because Daemons are a bit silly) but I assume it does not stop the weapon upgrades available to the GD's and Heralds.

Lastly, more of a modelling than rules question: Is it acceptable to use a Dragon model with only one head as a Chaos Dragon?

Falkman
08-06-2009, 11:47
I keep meaning to ask these but keep forgetting :confused: and now have enough for a threads worth.

Eye of the Gods:
I know it say that you can't gain a roll on this for running down a character but do you gain a role for running down a large target? The rule would imply so.
No idea.


Chosen, Chosen of the Dark Gods:
If Valkia is present in the army, do the Chosen get the re-roll on their pre-game gift. I would have said no because Valkia's rule says: 'while she is on the table' but thought I would double check anyway.
Not sure, it says Chosen roll "at the start of the battle". Personally I would deem this to be after deployment, so Valkia should be on the table and allow the re-roll.


Giant, Pick Up and Hurl:
I presume a model that survives this is just placed back with the unit it was originally from?
If the model for some reason have more than 1 wound on its profile, then yes, place it back in the unit.


The Father of Blades:
Does the effect of this weapon apply before or after re-rolls or is it any 1's regardless?
This should be after all rolls are made, so check for 1's after any possible re-rolls.


Rending Sword:
Does this effect only apply in combat? Seems a bit odd considering Bloodcurdling Roar is available.
According to the wording it can be used whenever a roll to wound is made.
I doubt this was the intention of GW, but as the rules stand, yes you can use it in conjunction with Bloodcurdling Roar (or spells of you give it to a sorcerer).


Whip of Subversion:
'...owning model's comat resolution' does this refer to the bearer of the Whip or the unlucky victim?
The bearer of the Whip. So any wounds inflicted by the "subverted" model is added to the Chaos player's CR.


Armour of Damnation:
How does this work with things that allow re-rolls to hit from the attacker i.e. Hatred?
Roll all dice, then, since some will hit and some will miss, you need to re-roll both misses and hits (basically just re-roll all dice).


Chaos Runeshield:
Pretty sure I know the answer to this (because Daemons are a bit silly) but I assume it does not stop the weapon upgrades available to the GD's and Heralds.
I'm fairly sure the Daemon armybook specifically states that Daemon gifts are not treated as Magic items, and thus should not be affected by the Runeshield.


Lastly, more of a modelling than rules question: Is it acceptable to use a Dragon model with only one head as a Chaos Dragon?
Of course.

Tae
08-06-2009, 13:10
Eye of the Gods:
I know it say that you can't gain a roll on this for running down a character but do you gain a role for running down a large target? The rule would imply so.

The FAQ specifically says you do get a roll for running down large targets.

Unuhexium
08-06-2009, 14:49
Is it acceptable to use a Dragon model with only one head as a Chaos Dragon?

I suggest you use some GS to make your dragon a bit more chaos-y if it's not a Chaos Dragon model.

theunwantedbeing
08-06-2009, 16:53
Lastly, more of a modelling than rules question: Is it acceptable to use a Dragon model with only one head as a Chaos Dragon?

That's called proxying.
Using a proxy all the time is not acceptable.

Atrahasis
08-06-2009, 16:55
*************

A dragon is a dragon.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
08-06-2009, 17:04
******************

A dragon is a dragon.

YOWZER! Although I would have to agree... maybe his other head is invisible. I don't understand why they made every Chaos dragon have two heads. Not very Chaos-like to have consistency, isn't it?

theunwantedbeing
08-06-2009, 17:14
YOWZER! Although I would have to agree... maybe his other head is invisible. I don't understand why they made every Chaos dragon have two heads. Not very Chaos-like to have consistency, isn't it?

I dont understand why they made all chaos warriors look identical.
Not very Chaos-like to have consistency is it?

jaxom
08-06-2009, 17:47
That's called proxying.
Using a proxy all the time is not acceptable.

Meh. How does a conversion differ from a proxy? If I get a dragon with one head, paint him in chaos colors and mount a chaos character on him is it still a proxy?

Personally, I don't have a problem with using a one-headed conversion for a chaos dragon, especially since the only two-headed model available is the model for the named dragon and he doesn't include a rider. You're going to be doing a conversion one way or the other. I have to say that I like the two-headed model and it is what *I* converted, but pick something that you like.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
08-06-2009, 17:48
I dont understand why they made all chaos warriors look identical.
Not very Chaos-like to have consistency is it?

How does this support your case?

jaxom
08-06-2009, 17:49
Most of your questions are answered in the February FAQ for WoC. See http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2350036_WarriorsofChaosFAQFeb2009.pdf.

Kalec
09-06-2009, 03:42
The thing about a 1-headed chaos dragon is that chaos dragons have two breath weapons, each coming from a different head.

No reasonable person (which excludes most of Warseer) is going to object to your chaos dragon having just 1 head, but you should discuss with your opponent where the second breath weapon will be measured from. Using a two-headed dragon is the easiest solution, but hardly the only one.

Yes, Valkia lets chosen re-roll their pre-game gift.

Drachen_Jager
09-06-2009, 04:14
I think it's fairly reasonable to assume that since the dragon only has one head and one mouth that both breath weapons can safely be measured from there Kalec, I don't think discussion is really necessary. Unless you're going to do what one earlier poster said and pretend it's got an invisible head, "Yeah, I forgot to mention, it's invisible neck is actually 26" long!"

Drachen_Jager
09-06-2009, 04:17
My follow-up question for the peanut gallery;

If your opponent used the Rending sword on a Lvl 4 Mage simply to get re-rolls for flickering fire and Bloodcurdling Roar and such, would you castrate him before or after the game (or perhaps, not at all)?

TroyJPerez
09-06-2009, 04:42
I remember reading the description of the rending blade and thinking how awsome it was! But I'm sure it wasn't ment to be used that way... but then again other weapons say they are only usable in close combat... and well the rending blade never says that. This could lead to a lot of trouble though. High elves have a magic item that says all hits auto wound. Would you really wanna see a mage casting with that item?

Chipacabra
09-06-2009, 05:39
If the chaos dragon only has one head, then the second 'breath' attack is clearly originating from somewhere other than a head.

TheDarkDaff
09-06-2009, 09:08
If the chaos dragon only has one head, then the second 'breath' attack is clearly originating from somewhere other than a head.

So if the Character has a Mark of Nurgle it would be fair to assume the Breath of Chaos is really just the Dragon passing wind.

There is(was) another Chaos Dragon Model. Egrimm Van Horstmann rode Baudros the most infamous of the Chaos Dragons which he freed from it's prison under the Pyramid of Light in Altdorf when he was Grand Magister of the Order of Light. But that model seems to have disappeared off the GW Website.

changer of fate
09-06-2009, 09:58
i would just assume that dragon is so ancient and powerfull that it breathes out a massive flame and acid and what ever u could think of

BigBossOgryn
09-06-2009, 10:03
Erm... thanks for the answers, people who gave them.

In regards to the Dragon: the Galrauch model is ****, I can green stuff gappy models and that's the extent of my modelling skills so making a second head is out of the question. If someone is willing to donate a Forgeworld Chaos Dragon to me, that's all good ;)

@ Kalec: I thought all templates are from the base anyway?

@ theunwantedbeing: I suppose it is technically proxy modelling but then I also agree that it's nonsense that all Chaos Dragons have two heads. The argument that all Chaos Warriors look identical is a bit silly though because I am quite sure in years to come that GW will be creating sprues that allow for 12 individual looking infantrymen, just the technology isn't there now.

Drachen_Jager
09-06-2009, 17:00
High elves have a magic item that says all hits auto wound. Would you really wanna see a mage casting with that item?

Very different wording though:

Rending Sword : "A character with the Rending Sword may re-roll failed to wound rolls."

The important part "A character"

Sword of Hoeth : "All hits wound automatically..."

Because the Rending Sword specifically says "A character" it certainly implies that ALL hits coming from that character, whatever their nature may be re-rolled. Whereas the Sword of Hoeth is clearly referring to hits from the sword. If you were to stretch that rule you could just say that all attacks from both sides wound automatically. But you couldn't really interpret it to mean that that character never has to roll to wound for attacks other than in close combat because it's pretty obvious it refers to the sword.

Acerbus
12-06-2009, 00:34
it would be unreasonable to say that chaos dragons have to have two heads, i would just measure both breath weapons from the one head. as for the rending sword, it doesn't state only in close combat, but using it otherwise would just be a jerk move.

TroyJPerez
12-06-2009, 00:49
Could you imagine the crazyness of playing in a game with the sword of Hoath. Where both sides auto hit and regardless of strength of the units its only modified by 4 if it is being held by a prince or 3 if a mage has it, lol. That would be hilarious. I still would like an official games workshop faq about the rending sword, cause as it stands right now, the rending sword and bloodcurdling roar could be an amazing combo, if it does work that way. Which would be nice in an armybook where there are not that many great item combos.

Drachen_Jager
12-06-2009, 03:19
Even if the Rending Sword and Bloodcurdling Roar can be used together that way it's just a good combo, it's not what I'd consider 'broken' (Bloodcurdling Roar is 20 points and you pay 35 points for a fairly useless hand to hand weapon that doubles it's effectiveness). I'd say BR is OK without the sword, and a definite priority if the points are available with the sword but even in combination it's still not as good as many of the magic items available to High Elves, Dark Elves or Demons (and unlike Demons you can only take one!) and I wouldn't even classify it as a "must have" item but if you have a Sorcerer on a Disc and you have the spare points it's pretty likely you'll earn them back with the sword.

Now on a Lvl 4 Sorcerer with Bloodcurdling Roar and Lore of Tzeench with a Book of Secrets, now you're starting to get into the territory where most WoC tournament armies would field one (still not a game breaker though).

TroyJPerez
12-06-2009, 03:41
Would be awsome in the hands of a sorcerer. I can't think of how many times I've done 5-6 strength 7 hits and rolled a couple 1's

jirgaS
12-06-2009, 15:24
raw or not, that's just silly.

lord mekri
12-06-2009, 16:22
i would actually forfiet the game and pack up my stuff if someone tried to pull that on me.
i am a big supporter of RAI or RAW, unless the RAW is pretty straight forward and well written. if someone is using RAW with a healthy dose of rules laywering, then that is someone who has missed the point of the game.
lets be honest here...
its a magic melee weapon. the rule does not have to specifically say it affects only close combat attacks. its implied. i would say the rule must specifically say it CAN affect everythign for this to work. to think otherwise is to try and get an unfair advantage.
now, it this was a taliman, or an enchanted item, a banner, or hell, even armor, then i would say the RAW interpretation that it affects everything would have a strong case.

btw - main main army is Warriors of Chaos.

EvC
12-06-2009, 16:38
What about Father of Blades? That has effects outside of close combat too. GW has form for this stuff as well, Wood Elves get a Spite that lets them re-roll failed rolls to hit that also applies to their shots...