PDA

View Full Version : Vampire Counts - where to start



mr.john_doe
08-06-2009, 14:23
Hello,

I want to start with vampire counts. So I have already bought the battalion-box and one riding and one vampire on foot.
That means:

1 Vampire on horse
1 Vampire on foot
20 skeletons
20 zombies
10 ghouls
1 corpsecart

Now I think about a good list for 1000 points. Also I think about my next buyings. I think graveguard is good. Also I think about dark knights (but use the chaosknightsmodels which looks cooler I think)
What I didn't know is how to setup my vampires. Can you give me some advises please? I don't want that maximized ultra tournament list but a good solid gaming list.

Can you help me please?

Regards...

niap
08-06-2009, 15:54
i am doing more or less the same as you are and so far i've come to the following conclusions:
-vampires are expensive to collect (this has influenced all of the following points) (:
-since you allready have 20 skellies, you might as well play them as your main force, two units of 15 plus one unit of 10 for the generals bunker should do.
-since you're not using ghouls, transform them into zombies and save some money there(:
-graveguard are nice...but unless you have the CC+helm of command combo in your army, they're just another unit of skelletons.
-black knights (i would take 5 of them) will need some sort of screening - buy dire wolves.

so basicly this is my list in the making:

Vampire (general)
dark acolyte, lord of the dead, black periapt, flayed hauberk - 185pts

Vampire BSB
Dread knight, Walking death - 175pts

15x Skellies
standard, musician - 132 pts

15x Skellies
standard, musician - 132 pts

10x Skellies
(for the general) - 80 pts

5x Black Knights with Vampire BSB
barding, Standard of Strigos, champion - 207 pts

5x dire wolves - 40 pts

5x dire wolves - 40 pts

all in all we get 991 points worth of bleached bone. you will also need around 20 skelletons more for raising purposes.

i'm eager to hear some suggestions from our more experienced members tough.

siphon101
08-06-2009, 15:58
i am doing more or less the same as you are and so far i've come to the following conclusions:
-vampires are expensive to collect (this has influenced all of the following points) (:
-since you allready have 20 skellies, you might as well play them as your main force, two units of 15 plus one unit of 10 for the generals bunker should do.
-since you're not using ghouls, transform them into zombies and save some money there(:
-graveguard are nice...but unless you have the CC+helm of command combo in your army, they're just another unit of skelletons.
-black knights (i would take 5 of them) will need some sort of screening - buy dire wolves.

so basicly this is my list in the making:

Vampire (general)
dark acolyte, lord of the dead, black periapt, flayed hauberk - 185pts

Vampire BSB
Dread knight, Walking death - 175pts

15x Skellies
standard, musician - 132 pts

15x Skellies
standard, musician - 132 pts

10x Skellies
(for the general) - 80 pts

5x Black Knights with Vampire BSB
barding, Standard of Strigos, champion - 207 pts

5x dire wolves - 40 pts

5x dire wolves - 40 pts

all in all we get 991 points worth of bleached bone. you will also need around 20 skelletons more for raising purposes.

i'm eager to hear some suggestions from our more experienced members tough.

you have 9 free points, buy a champion upgrade for the unit your general is in to accept challenges for him. He has a 2+ save, but at the end of the day, is still kinda weedy at W2 and T4 and no wardsave.

I'd also recommend swapping the vamp BSB for a wight BSB, if you want to do surprise flank charges with the knights. With a vamp, they lose their ability to move effortlessly through terrain. He's actually more durable than the vamp is, though you lose the extra wizard.

mr.john_doe
08-06-2009, 20:21
Thanks for your posts. What means BSB?

niap
08-06-2009, 20:56
Battle Standard Bearer

mr.john_doe
08-06-2009, 21:06
OK, thank you. Can I use those 60 Skelettons later or is that later a waste of points. What do you think about the other standardoptions like zombies and ghouls?
I thought a tough combo is the corpse cart with some grave guards with greatweapons bevore them. So you can push always strike first. And is the helm of commandment bat at 1000 points?

I like the list but so I have to buy 40 new skeletons. So I want to use them later on larger games...
I think the list is very funish and looks great - but can you win with that? The most part of army are skelletons with T3, St3 and WS2. So you can only collect all enemy combatgroups and bind them - ok - but can you resurrect enough of the skelletons per turn to prevent to be overrun?

Greatings
Regards...

niap
08-06-2009, 22:35
yes, the skelletons will be allways usefull. they provide an unbreakable anvil with a static combat resolution of 5 that could hold most opposing units in place for quite a few turns or even break them if the combat goes well. actually this is how i intend to win - trough static combat resolution. you should be able to raise enough against most armies.

you can safely replace the skelleton units with ghouls - they are generally percieved as a better choice since they can actually kill something, but they can't take standards...and they look ugly (:

i wouldn't include zombies in my list since you can easly raise a unit from the ground anytime you want. they wont survive to the end anyhow, so why give your opponent 80 points when you can give him 50? they are great for tieing down enemy units for a turn or two tough.

as for the grave guards + CC, they are deffinitely an option, i just can't find the points for them yet. i will deffinitely include them in my 1500pts list (along with a vargulfh. Arrr, grrr!).

Penitent Engine
08-06-2009, 23:36
Grave Guard w. Great Weapons+ Corpse Cart/Vanhel's Danse/BSB with Hatred banner + Banner of The Barrows is an incredibly nasty combo. Even if charged they still get ASF (assuming that your Vanhels or Corpse Cart goes off), put a Wight King with the Sword of Kings in the front rank and give the unit the Banner of the Barrows for:
6 S6 ASF Killing Blow attacks that get +1 to hit and re-roll failed misses
3 S4 ASF 5+ Killing Blow attacks at WS4(?-don't have book on me) that score killing blows on 5+s and re-roll misses.
It's even better when combined with the rod of make-an-attack-in-the-magic-phase. :)

Gokamok
09-06-2009, 06:42
My first piece of advice is to play some games with proxy models and figure out whether you're a ghoul or skeleton guy. Despite great efforts being put into math-hammer (the "art" of calculating what is best), there is still no definite conclusion as to whether skellies or ghouls are best.
From my own experience, Ghouls are stronger than Skeletons when backed up by multiple Corpse Carts and a strong magic phase, since they will benefit more from their superior combat stats, while Skeletons are the better choice if you're running a not too powered up magic phase due to their better static combat resolution. Skeletons also benefit from a bit more versatility, since they can take spears and magic standards, thus allowing the units to fulfil different roles on the battlefield.

Both Grave Guard and Black Knights are very strong choices. I find myself fielding Black Knights more often than Grave Guard, since the GG tend to cost around 300 points for a strong unit, while you can get a unit of 5 knights for 140 points that can still fulfil an important role.

Wraiths are often very effective in low point games, but will often be considered a bit cheesy due to most armies not having too many magical attacks at 1000 points.

Gokamok
09-06-2009, 06:50
An idea for a list that should be relatively easy to play, but maybe a bit too magic heavy for most peoples liking:

Vampire (General)
-Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead
-Helm of Commandment, Black Periapt
190 points

Vampire BSB
-Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead
-Flayed Hauberk, Biting Blade
200 points

10 Skeletons
-Spears
-Full Command
110 points

10 Skeletons
-Spears
-Full Command
110 points

10 Skeletons
-Full Command
100 points

5 Black Knights
-Barding
140 points

3 Cairn Wraiths
150 points

This should give enough power dice to raise the skeletons up to size, while the knights and wraiths provide the punch needed to win combats. As mentioned in my previous post, some people will not like the sight of Wraiths at 1k, but they can always be substituted for something else:)

mr.john_doe
10-06-2009, 10:18
Thanks for your hints.
I like the skeletonlist for style. Wraiths are to hard for the games I plan. I don't have experiences with ghouls ether skeletons.
Is it good in greater games to combine them?

Spirit
10-06-2009, 14:39
Thanks for your hints.
I like the skeletonlist for style. Wraiths are to hard for the games I plan. I don't have experiences with ghouls ether skeletons.
Is it good in greater games to combine them?

It is generally better to focus on one. This is so that you can raise all of your units above starting strength while only using one vampire power.(lord of the dead or summon ghouls)

Ghouls are much better than skeletons, no doubt about it. But at the end of the day pick whichever you prefer.

Ghouls have a number of advantages:
WS3,
2 attacks,
poison,
I3,
better Ld (for crumbling)
and for 25 points on one vampire all of your ghouls can move 8" before the game begins (using ghoulkin)

Ghouls only have a couple of disadvantages:
No standard (however it means if you lose the unit you dont lose 100 victory points!)
No musician (but in an undead army musicians have a VERY limited use, and are almost pointless when you have a BsB nearby)

Spirit
10-06-2009, 14:43
An idea for a list that should be relatively easy to play, but maybe a bit too magic heavy for most peoples liking:

Vampire (General)
-Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead
-Helm of Commandment, Black Periapt
190 points

Vampire BSB
-Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead
-Flayed Hauberk, Biting Blade
200 points

10 Skeletons
-Spears
-Full Command
110 points

10 Skeletons
-Spears
-Full Command
110 points

10 Skeletons
-Full Command
100 points

5 Black Knights
-Barding
140 points

3 Cairn Wraiths
150 points

This should give enough power dice to raise the skeletons up to size, while the knights and wraiths provide the punch needed to win combats. As mentioned in my previous post, some people will not like the sight of Wraiths at 1k, but they can always be substituted for something else:)

Why pay to lose a 4+ save in combat? Spears are next to useless IMO on WS2, S3 troops.

The black knights would benefit greatly from one more model and the banner of the undead legion.

Seeing as you only need 2 core, drop one unit of skeletons and bump the other 2 to 15 strong. This means you dont have to rely on raising as much. And keeping 3 units at high strength is hard with only 2 vampires. 2 units is much easier to raise safely.

Giving the black periapt to your bsb so you can give your general the talisman of lycni would be good. M9 is a necessity for the helm of command.

mr.john_doe
11-06-2009, 20:51
What do you think about those list:
1000 Pts - Vampire Counts Roster - Unnamed

Vampire (1#, 190 Pts)
1 Vampire
General; Vampire; Hand Weapon; Undead
1 Black Periapt
1 Helm of Commandment
1 Dark Acolyte
1 Lord of the Dead

Lord of the Barrows (1#, 125 Pts)
1 Wight King
Hand Weapon; Shield; Undead
1 Sword of Kings
1 The Flayed Hauberk

Necromancer (2#, 220 Pts)
1 Necromancer
Corpse Cart; Hand Weapon; Undead
1 Corpse Cart
Unholy Lodestone
1 Dispel Scroll
1 Dispel Scroll
1 0. Invocation of Nehek
1 2. Vanhel's Danse Macabre

Skeleton Warriors (12#, 112 Pts)
11 Skeleton Warriors
Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield; Undead
1 Skeleton Champion
Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield

Skeleton Warriors (15#, 136 Pts)
14 Skeleton Warriors
Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield; Undead
1 Skeleton Champion
Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield

Grave Guard (11#, 212 Pts)
10 Grave Guard
Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Undead
1 The Banner of the Barrows
1 Seneschal
Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour

Total Roster Cost: 995

Peril
11-06-2009, 22:20
As a VC player, you should always start by apologizing to your opponent ;)

Gokamok
11-06-2009, 22:59
What do you think about those list:
1000 Pts - Vampire Counts Roster - Unnamed

Vampire (1#, 190 Pts)
1 Vampire
General; Vampire; Hand Weapon; Undead
1 Black Periapt
1 Helm of Commandment
1 Dark Acolyte
1 Lord of the Dead

Lord of the Barrows (1#, 125 Pts)
1 Wight King
Hand Weapon; Shield; Undead
1 Sword of Kings
1 The Flayed Hauberk

Necromancer (2#, 220 Pts)
1 Necromancer
Corpse Cart; Hand Weapon; Undead
1 Corpse Cart
Unholy Lodestone
1 Dispel Scroll
1 Dispel Scroll
1 0. Invocation of Nehek
1 2. Vanhel's Danse Macabre

Skeleton Warriors (12#, 112 Pts)
11 Skeleton Warriors
Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield; Undead
1 Skeleton Champion
Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield

Skeleton Warriors (15#, 136 Pts)
14 Skeleton Warriors
Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield; Undead
1 Skeleton Champion
Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield

Grave Guard (11#, 212 Pts)
10 Grave Guard
Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Undead
1 The Banner of the Barrows
1 Seneschal
Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour

Total Roster Cost: 995

Looks like a fine list to me, should get you some nice tactical games where you get to fiddle around with VC infantry :)

2 Dispel Scrolls might be a tad overkill in 1000 points, maybe switch one of them for a Power Stone so you can get Vanhel's off when you really need it.

Spirit
11-06-2009, 23:17
2 Dispel Scrolls might be a tad overkill in 1000 points, maybe switch one of them for a Power Stone so you can get Vanhel's off when you really need it.

I agree, i dont use any scrolls at 2k and i very rarely regret it.

However i would swap them for the book of arkhan.

mr.john_doe
12-06-2009, 05:48
Thanks for your hints.
The problem I see is that there is no carrier for my general.
How does the nocromancer works? Generates he energydices? And how much?

Regards...

Gokamok
12-06-2009, 09:19
Thanks for your hints.
The problem I see is that there is no carrier for my general.
How does the nocromancer works? Generates he energydices? And how much?

Regards...

The Necromancer is a lvl 1 Wizard, and so generates 1 Power Dice and 1 Dispel dice respectively. Against some opponents, you'll likely have to put the Necromancer and general in the smaller unit of Skeletons and keep them behind the other units. This will especially be relevant against armies with war machines that could hit you characters if they're not in a unit.

If you're not facing war machines (or missile troops on a hill) you can probably just keep the General and Necro behind your line, run the general into a nearby forest, or something like that, in order to free all 3 units up for combat purposes.

Spirit
12-06-2009, 12:13
The problem I see is that there is no carrier for my general.




What do you mean?

Mid'ean
12-06-2009, 14:10
Here's a good site to check out for all your VC questions.......:evilgrin:

http://www.vampirecounts.net/portal.php