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sirbone
10-06-2009, 16:19
Before I begin, I am theorising, not suggesting or inferring or anything else. I know as well as anyone else on here that all the recent rumours of a new army and the factual buggery which accompanied it is just, well, internet talk. None of it has much substance. I am starting this thread merely for discussion.

Has anyone considered that the 'new army' could perhaps be dragons? My only point of reference is the WFB rulebook, where, in 'other armies' it has Cathay, Chaos Dwarfs and Dragons.

What does anyone reckon?

Burning Blood
10-06-2009, 16:23
I think it would be hard to make a interesting army out of dragons.

sirbone
10-06-2009, 16:25
I was thinking the same. It would be just, erm, dragons. Maybe small dragons, and big ones, but still, just dragons. Dragon chick swarms. erm... Dragons riding chariots pulled by dragons. Dragons mounted on dragons.

Okay, that's enough. I'm regretting starting this thread.

Dareus
10-06-2009, 16:32
I really don't think so.
An army of dragons would play like action figures. no tactics involved other than "what's bashed up next?" then roll the dice...

Really hoping that they even reduce large monster and stuff with this Masters-of-the-Universe-feeling to it. Herohammer should not be resurrected (further).

Malorian
10-06-2009, 16:43
The only way I can see them making a dragon army is if it was VERY limited.


It's been brought up before and there really isn't a good way to make it work that would be fair.

theunwantedbeing
10-06-2009, 16:48
An army of dragons is an easy way to start selling lots of dragon models.

They just need to think up some rules for different coloured dragons. (easy enough, they just take the 5th edition dragon colour rules and use those!)
Then they need to think up some different "level" dragons (again easy peasy as High elves have 3).
Throw in hero dragon's being able to have magic (every 12 year thinks thats an awesome thing so of course it'll sell fantastically!)
Add in wyverns as they're kinda like dragons and it adds some variety(another model that alreayd exists so doesnt need to be made).

There we go, army of Dragons for about 5 minutes effort on the part of GW.
They could probably create the entire book in a day and have it on the shelves in however long it takes them to print and distribute books.

No doubt they have this as a "plan B" if they really cant think of anything to do and dont really want to do fishmen or chaos dwarves.

Malorian
10-06-2009, 16:54
There we go, army of Dragons for about 5 minutes effort on the part of GW.
They could probably create the entire book in a day and have it on the shelves in however long it takes them to print and distribute books.

Sounds like when they came out with the idea for armored company...

"Hey know what would be cool?"
"An army of only tanks?"
"You bet buddy! Lets throw one together and make it official!"

Two months later...

"$@#$!!! How the hell am I suppose to beat an army of all tanks?!?!"
"Just shoot em up with your devs..."
"Oh you mean the squad that was blown to pieces on the first turn? Nice idea *****... now hand me my case so I can pack up my dead..."

skelezom
10-06-2009, 16:56
Dragon army+Collar of Zorga or Rune of the true beast=dead/annoyed dragon.

Nuada
10-06-2009, 17:03
Well, there's no "new race" army for at least the next 2 years. But how about copying those dragonlance creatures (think they're called draconians) and have them bigger on 40mm bases, as big as an ogre.

Also, if you had a dragon army they could have slaves as well. Doing all their menial tasks for them. Maybe introduce a rule so you can't have many slaves, because the dragons are aloof

sirbone
10-06-2009, 17:10
Slaves would be fun.

A fat dragon riding a chariot being pulled by a team of poncy elves. To make it worse, the elves are mixed Dark and High...

Malorian
10-06-2009, 17:13
A fat dragon riding a chariot being pulled by a team of poncy elves. To make it worse, the elves are mixed Dark and High...

Now that's a conversion that begs to be done :p:D

(Must fight it... must fight the urge to spend $150 just to make epic conversion...)

TheRabidMongoose
10-06-2009, 17:15
i there cud be perhaps a way they cud do it, i mean you cud have the big ass dragons as like heroes maybe giving them magic or making them like the special character dragon in chaos (but a little less special) and then for core units thee wud be units of dragon-human mutations (think lizzies but more dragonlike, longer snouts and small undeveloped wings) with ranged units being firebreathers each one with a flame template range. as fast units maybe drakes of varying elements, which players can equip with certain abilities e.g. like a yhettis frost aura. special units wud be something along the lines of this
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk107/prtylvr/world_of_warcraft_rare_mob_lord_cap.jpg

and rare would be kinda like a mortar but in big fat imovable dragonform

sirbone
10-06-2009, 17:17
Do it. Please. For all us kind folks at Warseer, haha.

TheRabidMongoose
10-06-2009, 19:36
i reckon it would be pretty simple to make a decent list for a dragon based army

Heroes/Lords:
the proper fullsize dragons with beefed up abilites and ability to learn magic (lore of fire or maybe their own!)

Core:
Dragon/Human hybrids, think lizard men but more dragon like with longer snouts and undeveloped wings equipped with shields and spears for the elite ones or for the more marauder kind, just their bare claws and strength (counting as 2 hand weps). ranged core wud be the same sort of concept but each model has a flame template range and flaming attacks.

Special:
some kind of elite dragongaurd (search wow dragonkin on google to see my ideal look) and for fast support.. drakes. fast and agile they would act like the cavalry of the army. both these units would be able to have elemental bonuses e.g. if ice was chosen then some kind of effect like an OK yhetee, earth would be bonus toughness etc. this would work exactly like the marks of chaos for chosen units.
also hatchling swarms which when killed would damage any model in a small blast template radius (maybe smaller) dealing fire damage at a certain str due to the flames developing inside them

rare:
some kind of large fat dragon "mortar" which would fire large balls of fire across the field
and maybe some giant flightless wyrm that wud basically be the equivalent of other armies giants.

ofc this army wud be elite so not a lot of models would be fielded at one point, not quite as costly as ogres but maybe around the points of chaos warriors/marauders for the basic core troops.

Condottiere
10-06-2009, 19:49
Draconians would resemble too much Lizardmen.

TheRabidMongoose
10-06-2009, 20:40
true but with a few changes then they cud be easily changed from something resembling a saurus into a hardened dragon warrior that doesnt resemble another army.

Charistoph
10-06-2009, 21:24
Sounds a lot like how Daemons should have been fielded...

sulla
11-06-2009, 01:38
Dragon army+Collar of Zorga or Rune of the true beast=dead/annoyed dragon.

Heh, some would no doubt be monsterous characters and thus immune to them...:rolleyes:


An army of dragons is an easy way to start selling lots of dragon models.

They just need to think up some rules for different coloured dragons. (easy enough, they just take the 5th edition dragon colour rules and use those!)
Then they need to think up some different "level" dragons (again easy peasy as High elves have 3).
Throw in hero dragon's being able to have magic (every 12 year thinks thats an awesome thing so of course it'll sell fantastically!)
Add in wyverns as they're kinda like dragons and it adds some variety(another model that alreayd exists so doesnt need to be made).


Add in scouting/tunnelling dragons and a cluster of eggs that moves like a cauldron of blood and makes all dragons within 24" unbreakable with magical flaming attacks and you've got the perfect army. ;)

BRETELF
11-06-2009, 02:00
Well i always thought an elemental army sounded great, lots of elements to work with.
Fire,Water,ground,air,poison,metal......List goes on and on doesent it. Does anyone think that would be an ok choice.

Vermin-thing
11-06-2009, 04:54
I think it would be hard to make a interesting army out of dragons.

I think not!

Warhammer: Dragons & Drakes. (D&D lol)

The core troops would consist of mid too lowish point cost drakes with average ld, fast movement, and or flying. I say lowish points because most of the points will be eaten up (pun intended) by other choices so will still be a compact elite army.

Special will be, well, special. :) larger drakes, and pigme to medium sized dragons will take to the skies. Most if not all of the special choices will be skirmishing troops with flying. Sky drakes (buffed up furies), pigme dragons (larger lizards that spit acid, and flames), and rage dragons. (kroxigors with flying, with or without the great weapon)

Rare will have the rare species of dragons including: a mountain dragon (a huge tarpit), a twilight dragon (a lvl 3- 4 caster), and the classic dragons.,(amber, ruby, fire, water...)

The lords will be a grand dragon (jack of all trades), a sky dragon (caster), and the storm drake. (combat monster).

The heros will be there to support the troops; golden drake (ld support), lighting worm (mid lvl caster), and the back drake. (combat, and battle standard bearer)

I think there's allot of potential in an army like this, and I would welcome Warhammer: Dragons & Drakes.

WhiteKnight
11-06-2009, 05:27
Well if you think about it, lizards are 'cousin'ish to dragons. They're both lizards. Just one of them have wings. An all dragon army would be boring. But an army based around a dragon worshipping army that rides, fights alongside dragons. Like Drake Riders, Drake chariot, dragon hatchling swarms as someone mentioned earlier, The worshippers will have their rank and file elite and standard infantry. They would have mages that can ride drakes, lords that ride dragons (equivalent to Moon Dragon but Breath Weapon is Strength 4 and Scaly Skin (3+).) Here's what i'm thinking stat wise for dragons / drakes/ hatchling swarms.

Dragon
M - 6
Ws - 7
BS - 0
S - 6
T - 6
W - 5
I - 3
Ld - 8
Scaly Skin - 3+
Flame Breath - S 4
Fly
Terror
Large Target

Drake
M-7
Ws-4
Bs- 0
S - 5
T - 4
W -2
I - 3
Ld - 8

Fear
Flame Breath - Strength 2
Scaly Skin - 5+

Hatchling Swarm

M - 5
Ws - 2
bs - 0
S - 3
T - 3
W - 4
I - 2
Ld - 6

Scaly Skin - 6+
Unbreakable
immune to psychology


Worshipper Fighters

M - 4
Ws - 4
Bs - 3
S - 3
T - 3
W - 1
I - 3
Ld - 8

Volcanically Forged Armor - Flaming breath weapons and spells from lore of fire or spells with "flaming attacks" take no effect against the unit.

Worshipper Archers

M - 4
Ws - 3
BS - 3
S - 3
T - 3
W - 1
I - 3
Ld - 8

This is just a basis for what my idea would be.

Roark
11-06-2009, 07:33
Dragons mounted on dragons.

Phwooaaarrrrrr!!

Urgat
11-06-2009, 07:43
I think not!

Warhammer: Dragons & Drakes. (D&D lol)

The core troops would consist of mid too lowish point cost drakes with average ld, fast movement, and or flying. I say lowish points because most of the points will be eaten up (pun intended) by other choices so will still be a compact elite army.

Special will be, well, special. :) larger drakes, and pigme to medium sized dragons will take to the skies. Most if not all of the special choices will be skirmishing troops with flying. Sky drakes (buffed up furies), pigme dragons (larger lizards that spit acid, and flames), and rage dragons. (kroxigors with flying, with or without the great weapon)

Rare will have the rare species of dragons including: a mountain dragon (a huge tarpit), a twilight dragon (a lvl 3- 4 caster), and the classic dragons.,(amber, ruby, fire, water...)

The lords will be a grand dragon (jack of all trades), a sky dragon (caster), and the storm drake. (combat monster).

The heros will be there to support the troops; golden drake (ld support), lighting worm (mid lvl caster), and the back drake. (combat, and battle standard bearer)

I think there's allot of potential in an army like this, and I would welcome Warhammer: Dragons & Drakes.

Still doesn't work. It's already hell with two or three dragons (HE), so more... no, no matter how many weak dragons you put as core, it'll be just horrible to play against. I mean, just proxy it. Make a list with giant bats (VC) as core, wyverns and manticores as special, smaller HE dragons as rare, and fill the characters with moon dragons and Galrauch.
Field that against any army, even gunlines...
I mean, realisticaly, people complain about peg knights as special... Imagine an army of that.


Dragon army+Collar of Zorga or Rune of the true beast=dead/annoyed dragon.

Dunno about that rune, but the Collar, the fact you have to be in base to base will, well, save you from 1 out of 20 flying handbags? Not much help when everything can just fly around and flank you at will :p

riotknight
11-06-2009, 08:27
It's not likely to be Dragons. Lizards were just released and the models would look to much alike. Chaos Dwarves and Cathay both seem likely though. I lean more towards the Dwarves (A new Hellcannon model would be fantastic)

Vermin-thing
11-06-2009, 08:43
Okay heres some ideas for units.

Core:

Salt Spray Drakes: 12 points per model.
Unit size: 10+
Stats: 7/4/0/4/3/1/4/1(2)/8
Options: Ocean Drake -10
Equipment: Huge fangs, and gripping talons. (counts as 2 hand weapons)
Special rules: Fear, Skirmish, Fly, SK +6.

Special:

Rage Dragons: 70 points per model.
Unit size: 1+
Stats: 7/5/0/5/4/3/3/3(4)/8
Options: Fury dragon -30
Equipment: Flail, Talons, and bone crushing mass.
Spacial rules: Fear(terror for champion), Skirmish, fly, SK 4+.

Rare:

Mountain Dragon: 300 points.
Unit size: 1
Stats: 8/4/0/6/6/8/1/5/9
Equipment: Great weapon (massive tail, and bulk).
Special rules: terror, Small wings (can always march), stubborn, SK 4+, Regeneration, large target.

Are these units over or under priced?

TheRabidMongoose
11-06-2009, 10:03
at some point cos im getting into this now im gonna start putting togther some models of the list that i thought up with rules, background etc. probably will begin once all other projects are done and when my helpers will be ready as well :D

VeriNasti
11-06-2009, 10:17
having a full flying army isn't exactly fair...

Duke Georgal
11-06-2009, 11:02
I think a dragon army would be awesome.

2,000 points, three dragons. It could be a fair fight against most armies.

It would make for some very heroic battle reports.

tezdal
11-06-2009, 14:00
Mmmm...dragon army...give all the Knights errants in Brettonia a chance to earn their spurs in one go eh

Condottiere
11-06-2009, 14:20
Or become meals on wheels.

slasher
11-06-2009, 15:02
Actually all a Bret player would do is take kill blow V large target virtue or the Grail sword (strength alway 1 higher than there toughness)

tezdal
11-06-2009, 15:04
knights>dragons...unless the dragon happens to sound like Sean Connery

Charistoph
11-06-2009, 15:39
knights>dragons...unless the dragon happens to sound like Sean Connery

Then he just opens his chest plate so the knight can kill him so he can kill the Chaos heretic that Sean Connery resurrected. This heretic would then get transferred to another universe where he becomes a werewolf.

PaleRaven
11-06-2009, 16:12
Whiteknight, I agree with your idea complteley, it just makes a lot more sense. I think games workshop would be very unlikely to step onto anything like dragon human hybrids, as mentioned before, it's stepping on lizardmen territory plus it's one of those very generic overused ideas that wouldn't bring anything new really to the gaming table. There are also problems with having your heroes as full sized dragons, as they would stuggle to join units and therefore would become huse targets, being singles out because of the large target rule. Also, I believe dragons are not very common in the warhammer world, i mean there are theoreticaly enough for a few lords to ride them as mounts but apart from that they are hardly common. I think I remember reading that the growth in chaos has reduced their inteligence and power greatly.

I was having a debate with my friend earlier on the topic and belived that perhaps, if the dragons were benevolent, there could be a sort of alliance of men, elves and dwarves who have out aside all problems to work with these anicient, knowledgeable dragons. There would ofcouse be a few dragon units, such as indipendamt dragon hereos and dragon knights, but also pleanty of other units.

Some of these may be dragon blood berserkers, humans who have entered a "battle state" by drinking this blood, which provide the bulk, ranked up core warriors. Then you could have elvish dragon knights, well equiped, elite warriors, then the dwarves could operate war machines, like a dragon's breath flamer, similar to a skaven warfire thrower. What do you think?

Kevlar
11-06-2009, 16:32
I couldn't stand it when Everquest came out with dragon people. I think gaming systems do that when they run out of ideas.

sirbone
11-06-2009, 16:41
wyrms could be cool...

Lord Malorne
11-06-2009, 16:51
Draconians would resemble too much Lizardmen.

No, no they would not.

Though cool in the books with the descriptions and abilities draco's actually look rather crap. Draco's would be nice with the abilites but the models would be crap and an army of them would not be succesful. Now the Magori could work, lobstermean in Dragonlance, but people don't seem to like fishmen :confused:.

Here is good artwork of them:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/Draconians/Acidrain92/Draconians.jpg

But if you have seen the film and most other depictions they are rather *****.

Snowdrake
11-06-2009, 17:39
my idea was to have an alliance of dragons,pheonix and mortal races who are all co dependant such that they are unable to break away from one another otherwise they would wipe themselves out. They would be lead by maybe a handful of ancient and intelligent dragons, with lord choices being a scaled down version of a dragon but without the firebreathing and armed. Also as calvalry choices have flightless phoenix being ridden by probably elves, main core units of humans etc and ranged choice of dwarves which have flamethrowers of some description. I'm not sure about spell casters yet but I'm sure it will come to me ( : I am going to try to create a sample of each of the units to see if it would work but let me know what you think : D

Condottiere
11-06-2009, 17:40
Which film?

Lord Malorne
11-06-2009, 18:25
Which film?

Wiki is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonlance_movie

http://www.dragonlance-movie.com/images/gallery/23613-lge.jpg

They suck IMO.

sirbone
11-06-2009, 18:41
Pure dragons, I meant, none of this draconian stuff. I am going purely by what is in the rulebook, and Dragons are listed as an army. Perhaps just a straight copy of middle earth.

Condottiere
12-06-2009, 08:52
Wiki is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonlance_movie

http://www.dragonlance-movie.com/images/gallery/23613-lge.jpg

They suck IMO.Thanks, I note that the Warrior Princess makes a cameo.

outbreak
12-06-2009, 10:14
didn't read all 3 pages but this may be said before. They could easily make different colours/tiers of dragons but also make the army a dragon cult with units of humans who worship the dragons. Could be flaggelant types and dragon knights. Could also have dragons who have human forms