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lopezpie
10-06-2009, 16:28
just out of curiosity what army do you despise playing against in the warhammer world, or just hate altogether?

Foegnasher
10-06-2009, 16:31
slayers.

ohh, the pain.

Shiodome
10-06-2009, 16:34
anything that makes it likely the game will be boring*... so vampire counts generally. though there are plenty of armies that can make tedious builds if they want to.

*boring being: very little variation in how the army plays from game to game no matter what the opposition is. little scope for 'heroic deeds' etc, just a dull repetitive grind. i wouldn't include daemons in this, had plenty of fun games against daemons even if they do have the odds stacked in their favour.

EvC
10-06-2009, 16:42
You've obviously never played against Vampire like mine, with a Lord on Zombie Dragon and two more Vampires on flying horsies... heroic deeds is what they're all about!

But it's too hard to generalise really. Any army that's tricked out fully is a pain, be it Empire with two Steam Tanks and War Altar, min-maxed Daemons or Dark Elves with every trick in the book.

SkawtheFalconer
10-06-2009, 16:45
It probably also depends on what army you field yourself.

Personally, I HATE playing Bretonnians with my Wood Elves. Even with my usual trickery (ie movement), I still bounce off them (gallic le sigh)

Mireadur
10-06-2009, 16:52
Wood elves all the way :p or a gunline

bob_the_small
10-06-2009, 17:17
VC, nurgle daemons.... slayer armies.... anything that makes the game long and drawn out and boooooring!

sirbone
10-06-2009, 17:20
High elves. Can't stand them.

VC is dull too, because I've played enough games against people who deploy about an inch from their table edge and increase their unit sizes until my orcs squabble across the table to attack them. By that time it's turn three or four, and I inevitably lose all the combats I've been waiting for. Dull dull game.

The Emperor
10-06-2009, 17:21
Haven't played since 5th edition, but I REALLY hated Skaven. Specifically Plague Censer Bearers. Are they still as bad as they were, then? Because it was unbelievable how much damage two units of six of them could inflict on my army.

TheRabidMongoose
10-06-2009, 17:25
i used to hate playing my mates vc army when at the start of every game all his banshees ran (floated) into every building on the map making it a pain in the ass to get to him easily.. most of our games were played in like a village scenario (lots of buildings). also my ogres getting owned by a big nasty dwarf army lots of shooting and lots and lots of slayers. not a pretty site.

Desert Rain
10-06-2009, 17:28
I have not played against all the armies, but out of the ones that I have faced I'll have to say that the Vampire Counts are the most boring. It's like: You kill them, they come back, you kill them again and so on.
Last time I faced them my opponent had more troops on the table by the end of the game than he had at the beginning WTF!?!

Draconian77
10-06-2009, 17:30
Any one dimensional army, be it a gunline, a magic spam list or an all Khorne Knights WoC list.

I guess if I had to choose a race it would be Dwarves, sort of boring to play against an army that has no intention of moving...

Geshmaal
10-06-2009, 17:35
Yeah, either Dwarfs (any kind of army) and Wood Elves that run away and pepper you with arrows. Both are pretty dull.

weirdo2590
10-06-2009, 17:43
Vampire counts summon spam.

Gunlies. (inc magical gunlines)

Wood elf point denial list

Almost every daemon list.

-fin

The Red Scourge
10-06-2009, 17:50
Daemons. Not because their power, I just don't like the all daemon army. Too high fantasy for my tastes :P

W0lf
10-06-2009, 17:50
Static dwarfs
Wood elves
Skaven SAD


Thats about it.

Souppilgrim
10-06-2009, 17:56
Vampire Counts, especially the deathstar unit with 3 huge units of zombies to support it.

GuyLeCheval
10-06-2009, 18:12
I HATE Thorek, because even 9 gutter runners, a teleported assassin and a 9+ warplichting spell seem to fail to kill him :mad:

Leogun_91
10-06-2009, 18:19
I always like a good game and there is no longer an army I hate, with my old dwarfs it was other dwarfs or empire but these days when I have three armies there is no problem, my orcs likes a good bashing no matter who they meet or which side gets bashed.

Dag
10-06-2009, 18:27
Least favorite army to play against would have to be an empire gunline, ive fought a prett lame one.

3 gcannons
2 hellblasters
3 units of xbows
1 handgunner

then core knights. so shoots the hell out of u and by the time my guys make it across even emp knights have a pretty good chance of breakin the units.

d6 wounds hurt ogres a little hard tho, and the guy rewrote the list to tailor it to fight my ogres, thats lame

IMO the lamest armies to fight against are ones that are tailored to fight yours, dispel dice spam vs vc. all fear vs ong / sk.

wood elves, while a pain in the ass, are still fun to playa gainst because they force you to play differently and imo thats more fun. a lot harder but more fun.

dont forget squighoppers > wood elves. all. day. long.

Tokamak
10-06-2009, 18:29
I really dislike Skaven.

LonelyPath
10-06-2009, 18:50
I hate gunlines, they make me use most of my magic on replenishing my fallen skellies and zombies, lol. However, I usually reach them pretty much intact thanks to said magic, heh.

Nell2ThaIzzay
10-06-2009, 19:00
A little bit of magic defense would go a long way in defending against a VC magic phase.

Maybe you could consider it.

Da GoBBo
10-06-2009, 19:05
I wouldn't want to play versus high elves, I just hate those minis! Those hats and silly dresses ... yuck!

Witchblade
10-06-2009, 19:08
What's with the wood elf hate? I don't mind them...

I despise any and all gunlines though.

MTUCache
10-06-2009, 19:13
I really dislike Skaven.

qft.

I don't mean to make disparaging remarks about large groups of people, but at least in my area, it seems that those people who are drawn to Skaven have a certain.... how to describe it... "likeness" (??) to the Skaven themselves.

Seriously, I'm sure there are really cool Skaven generals out there, but every one of the handful I've met could pass for a Plague Monk without even trying. I could scan a group of guys in a GW store and pick out which ones own Skaven armies without even seeing any miniatures.

Something about that just irks me... I mean, the same thing could be said about O&G, and Demons, and Bretonnian players that I've met (some people just exude the "feel" of their armies), but it just really gets to me in a don't-want-to-play-against-that-guy-no-matter-what kind of way when I run into a Skaven-nut. :rolleyes:

Lijacote
10-06-2009, 20:21
some people just exude the "feel" of their armies

Now I'm curious. What kind of vibes do different armies give you then? Daemons, bretonnians?

I'm personally against deathstars... they're pretty dull to face. So dependant on that one unit, argh. Oh yeah, wipe the floors with the rest of the army but that one unit... it will probably stand. Dull, dull, dull.

lopezpie
10-06-2009, 20:46
Well since I haven't put my two cents in.

Mine is going to have to be Nurgle. YECK!!

Warriors of chaos are a pain but fun to fight

But I absolutely despise Dwarves they are really no fun to play against at all!

Voss
10-06-2009, 21:06
A little bit of magic defense would go a long way in defending against a VC magic phase.

Maybe you could consider it.

Most vampire armies I've seen have around 16 power dice, several bound spells, and various shenanigans. A little bit of magic defense doesn't cut it (especially for those armies that have limits on how much magic defense they can muster). You either have to go all out on magic defense or suffer, and the former pretty much kills 'all-comers' armies.

Unfortunately magic heavy armies are busting the game at the moment.

Troah
10-06-2009, 21:14
Any army that just stands back and shoots. Takes the fun out of everything.

PARTYCHICORITA
10-06-2009, 21:17
I dislike magic/machine heavy armies or ever worse a combination of both.
As for books, i am not a big fan of playing VC; it's kind of boring to me how pointless it feels to kill anything.

Spleendokta
10-06-2009, 21:18
ITP = boring

Tae
10-06-2009, 21:36
Thorek gunlines.

5 turns of the Dwarfs guessing artilery ranging and hoping for a 3+ (with re-roll) on the Anvil followed by one (possibly 2 if you've managed to get there early) turns of fighting a couple of Dwarf units.

Quite frankly that game can be played by solely the Dwarf player. I'll just dump my models on the table, let them move them and take them off when they die and I'll go have a coffee and come back in an hour or so to pack them away again.

Da GoBBo
10-06-2009, 21:58
Quite frankly that game can be played by solely the Dwarf player. I'll just dump my models on the table, let them move them and take them off when they die and I'll go have a coffee and come back in an hour or so to pack them away again.

Hehehe, thats briljant :D

SuperArchMegalon
10-06-2009, 22:10
I think it's safe to say any time your opponent isn't moving makes it a boring game. This just tends to happen with Dwarfs more often, because of the mechanics of the game :(

I personally always try to make my Dwarf army dynamic and fun to fight against. If I wanted to just leave my models in place I might as well just get a big piece of cardboard and glue all my movement trays to it, models attached, so I can just slap down my army and start playing right away.


VC is dull too, because I've played enough games against people who deploy about an inch from their table edge and increase their unit sizes until my orcs squabble across the table to attack them. By that time it's turn three or four, and I inevitably lose all the combats I've been waiting for. Dull dull game.

That has nothing to do with the army and everything to do with the player. If I were you I would have just left the game after turn 2. Isn't it supposed to be a fun game of battle, not... raising tokens??

Duke Georgal
11-06-2009, 00:45
just out of curiosity what army do you despise playing against in the warhammer world, or just hate altogether?

Skaven.

I don't know how many times I have said it. I hate the army, fluff, models, players, everything about them.

Lord Anathir
11-06-2009, 01:56
..........dwarfs.

MarcoPollo
11-06-2009, 03:04
My vote goes to death star armies. Also to gunlines and static armies too. This doesn't mean I can't beat them, but I find the dynamics the same each time.

Lazarus15
11-06-2009, 03:42
I don't despise any army, as I love playing fantasy in general.

I HATE TAILORING.

A SOLID PUNCH TO THE FACE IS WHAT I THINK SHOULD HAPPEN TO THE GOONS THAT TAILOR LISTS TO BEAT AN OPPONENTS.

Troah
11-06-2009, 03:43
My vote goes to death star armies.

What the heck is a death star army?

Lord Dan
11-06-2009, 03:49
If before the game I can predict exactly what my opponent is going to do with the models he has out...

MTUCache
11-06-2009, 03:52
Now I'm curious. What kind of vibes do different armies give you then? Daemons, bretonnians?

Warning: Over-the-top racial profiling here... I'm painting with a rather large brush here, and I'm only about half serious.

I was pointing out that for the most part, once you get to know somebody, their general attitude tends to lend itself pretty easily to one type of army in Warhammer. Skaven players just happen to be the easiest to peg, and in general I find them the most grating on my nerves.

Obviously, the hardcore O&G players tend to be the unpredictable, fun, somewhat loud guys of the group. They're generally harmless, but like their fun just a tad too much.

Demons generals I don't get so much of a "vibe" off of, but it's pretty easy to pick which guys are the hyper-competitive, win-at-all-costs types players. Currently they just happen to be playing Demons, and last year they just happened to be playing VC.

Hardcore Bretonnian players are a little harder to peg. The ones that I've met tend to be very good painters (and like to show it off with their heraldry). They're quiet, unassuming, give off an aura of virtuousness and gentlemanliness, and they've got just a touch of arrogance in there, but it's well hidden.

Am I reading too much into this, and making broad generalizations from extremely small sample sizes? Of course... but that just makes it all the more fun. :D

Ward.
11-06-2009, 03:54
I don't really have a least favourite army to play against anymore, a least favourite player on the other hand...

Nell2ThaIzzay
11-06-2009, 06:41
Most vampire armies I've seen have around 16 power dice, several bound spells, and various shenanigans. A little bit of magic defense doesn't cut it (especially for those armies that have limits on how much magic defense they can muster). You either have to go all out on magic defense or suffer, and the former pretty much kills 'all-comers' armies.

Unfortunately magic heavy armies are busting the game at the moment.

No - they aren't.

You need to know your opponent.

An "all-comers" list cannot beat a list that focuses on one particular phase of the game. Heard the phrase "jack of all trades, master of none"?

There's nothing broken, cheesy, beardy, or anything of the sort about making a list that focuses on a particular phase.

I used to play against Skaven a whole hell of a lot, before my friend left for college. I actually just had this conversation with him the other day.

He beat me nearly all the time. I could get a game in here or there, if the dice rolls went my way, or if he made an uncharacteristic mistake, but he beat me probably 70% of the time.

And quickly, at that.

So he asked me if I felt it was his list, or if I thought he was just that good.

I told him more than anything, he was just that good. There were some things about his list that I didn't particularly care for, but they were also things that I could have easily taken care of had I actually prepared for them.

If I had actually taken my flyer and fast cav units, I would have been much better at taking out his shooters and mages that caused me so many headaches. But I was (and still am) dead set against taking Fell Bats and Dire Wolves (because I don't care for the fluff).

So in the end, is my friend "cheesy" for building lists that mine can't deal with? Or am I at fault simply because I didn't prepare for his weapons that I knew were coming?

I'd say some blame has to fall on me for not preparing for what I knew was coming. That's just bad playing on my part. It's not my friend being "cheesy" or "beardy" because his list contained elements that mine couldn't compete with.

So you want to beat a magic heavy list? Then prepare for it. Don't come with a "jack of all trades, master of none" list. You're bound to get beat. And it's your own fault, not the other players'.

P.S.: It's very possible to beat a magic-heavy list, even without tons of magic defense. It's called playing a good game. With about 12 or 13 PD in a 2k game, I recently lost to Ogre Kingdoms of all armies, because the opponent sitting on the other side of the table from me was just -better- than I was.

I really am getting a little tired of all the hate towards the army that I play.

Are they a good army? Absolutely. Are some armies a bit better than some of the others? Sure. Are the Vampire Counts one of those armies that's slightly better than the others? Perhaps.

But they are by no means "breaking" the game. You are not cheesy, a poor sport, or "WAAC" because you build an army list that happens to focus on a particular strength, and take full advantage of it.

It means that it's a *GAME*, which means *COMPETETIVE*, and I am trying to *WIN*.

If I don't win, that's absolutely okay, as long as my opponent is a fun guy, and a good sport. I will happily shake the hand of an opponent that simply outplays me, and defeats me, and I will happily shake the hand of an opponent who nobley goes down in defeat to me. Obviously, games are for entertainment and fun.

But part of the entertainment and fun is being competetive, and coming to win.

If you don't even come to win against me, then what is the point of me playing against you? It's a waste of my time if you're not even going to try.

Because I am. And I'm not going to be told that I am wrong because I play the magic phase and you don't.

You don't like me playing the magic phase, then stop it. A couple dispel scrolls and an extra wizard for dispel dice goes a LONG way.

Roark
11-06-2009, 07:00
Did everyone get that loud and clear?

Nell2ThatIzzay has kindly pointed out for all of you the fatal weakness of abusive VC lists: 2 dispel scrolls and an extra wizard.

Everyone can now officially stop whining about Invocation spam and the regenerating Grave Guard deathstar with WS hat.

*thumbs up*

;-)

ICLRK625
11-06-2009, 08:33
Did everyone get that loud and clear?

Nell2ThatIzzay has kindly pointed out for all of you the fatal weakness of abusive VC lists: 2 dispel scrolls and an extra wizard.

Everyone can now officially stop whining about Invocation spam and the regenerating Grave Guard deathstar with WS hat.

*thumbs up*

;-)

Haha, brutal.

It's completey ridiculous to say a well-balanced army shouldn't be competitive compared to one that focuses on a single area of the game (besides, by that logic, they're unprepared for the other phases of the game, which should be their downfall), and that's hardly ever the case. Vampire Counts can focus on magic, because by doing so, they also dominate the movement, and close combat phase of the game, with little their opponent can do to stop them, unless they have PLENTY of dispel tools. Compare that to an Empire army that focuses heavily on magic, who has to hope they roll the Wolf Hunts or the lore of Shadow's equivelent (it's name escapes me), and then hope that their opponent isn't able to dispel it because they weren't able to get 16 other power dice to draw out the dispel dice.

I don't even believe some armies are as overpowered as the War Seer mob mentality believes, I just don't like that by focusing on one element of the game, you can ignore the others (e.g. gunlines, invocation spamming, etc). A well balanced army should ALWAYS beat an army that only takes one phase of the game seriously (assuming the generals are of equal skill), but that's not always the case, and not for the reasons you seem to believe (i.e. "Jack of all trades master of none"). If I have to focus on shooting, magic, or some other tactic to be able to ignore other parts of the game to be competitive, I'd rather not be competitive.

The game is not meant to be "competitive," the game is meant to be fun. If being competitive is fun for you, wonderful, then you're doing it right. But for me, if I'm able to best my opponent who made a list that they thought was going to be prepared for anything (balanced) by spamming a handful of spells and hiding my heroes, then something is wrong.

Zodgrod
11-06-2009, 09:41
Skaven.

I don't know how many times I have said it. I hate the army, fluff, models, players, everything about them.


The truth.

Aurellis
11-06-2009, 09:47
I really hate playing:

High Elf Magic/Shooting Teclis Gunline
Nurgle DoC

There's not much I wouldn't play against but I wouldn't have a fun time doing it.

Duke Georgal
11-06-2009, 11:05
Bretonnian players are a little harder to peg. The ones that I've met tend to be very good painters (and like to show it off with their heraldry). They're quiet, unassuming, give off an aura of virtuousness and gentlemanliness, and they've got just a touch of arrogance in there, but it's well hidden.

Have you faced my Bretonnians? I don't remember everyone I meet, but you sure sound like you know me.

:p

bork da basher
11-06-2009, 11:20
the only army i dislike playing against is mixed god chaos armies. not because of the rules or how they perform but because it's a mixed god chaos army and it's just wrong to me. visually the army looks mismatched and sloppy. damm what GW say about the gods being friends all of a sudden to me it's just sinful and naughty and bad and those guilty of it need putting in a deep hole somewhere lol.

rules wise i dont much care who or what i play against because i dont get to play very often and beggers can't be choosers. its more the players themselves than the armies i'm likely to dislike anyway.

pinegulf
11-06-2009, 11:28
/add 1 more to gunlines.

especially dwarf line with Thorek.

maze ironheart
11-06-2009, 11:42
Tzeentch deamon army so boring makes your head explode.

MarcoPollo
11-06-2009, 17:29
What the heck is a death star army?

Deathstar armies are armies where a significant portion of the army is set up in un-killable bunkers.

For example, the slan-temple guards army or the VC graveguard mage bunker. I don't mind fast moving bunker armies like the grail knight bus of doom, or stuff like that. But the point denial, bunker style pisses me off.

Death Disco
11-06-2009, 17:55
Dwarves, especially Thorek lists, because they mitigate about 80% of Warhammer. In the case of most armies, they don't move and they don't magic, and they fight combats for only the last third of the game. You can't march block them. You can't redirect them because they aren't trying to charge in the first place. Flanking maneuvers hardly come into things, because they can skimp on characters and use the points to totally surround a hill with 9 point warriors. While the Dwarf army may be lacking cavalry, monsters, magic, etc, it doesn't actually suffer from doing so. The way most people play it, the Dwarf list simply subtracts elements from the game.

Bretonnians. Point. Click. Done. Yawn.

Dag
11-06-2009, 17:58
An "all-comers" list cannot beat a list that focuses on one particular phase of the game. Heard the phrase "jack of all trades, master of none"?

So you want to beat a magic heavy list? Then prepare for it. Don't come with a "jack of all trades, master of none" list. You're bound to get beat. And it's your own fault, not the other players'.

P.S.: It's very possible to beat a magic-heavy list, even without tons of magic defense. It's called playing a good game.

But they are by no means "breaking" the game. You are not cheesy, a poor sport, or "WAAC" because you build an army list that happens to focus on a particular strength, and take full advantage of it.

I'm not going to be told that I am wrong because I play the magic phase and you don't.

You don't like me playing the magic phase, then stop it. A couple dispel scrolls and an extra wizard for dispel dice goes a LONG way.

First off, obviously youve never played AGAINST vc without a top tier army.

Secondly. 4 phases of the game correct?

Movement- VC magic can dictate this phase in the magic phase with vanhels. giving them superior mobility in an army designed to be slow and ponderous.

Magic- VC pretty much dominate this as they throw 16 SINGLE dice with bonus'. unless your very dull, you realize it IS impossible to field even close to that in dispel dice. or your army is spending hundreds of points on it. Dont forget when your sacrificing points to attempt to stop spells, especially spells that the opposing players rolls 1 dice and usually gets 4+ you have to use 2 dice to reliably dispel. 1/2'ing your dispel pool. Dispel scrolls are useless as vc can spam their spells, grats u stop 2dice with 25 pts, he just casts the spell again... and again... and again...

Shooting-VC have none, their only downfall.

CC-VC magic can again, dominate this as your scary heroes fight the same champion over.... and over..... and over..... and the unit ur fighting gets bigger and bigger, even tho ONLY skeletons have died, somehow their getting more skeletons from the bits that are left over after a chosen of chaos takes his warhammer to it.

This isnt just to rag on VC, but their army can run all phases from the magic phase, so why WOULDNT a vc player do this? It makes perfect sense to utilize your armies strengths, you dont see units of 20goblins running around, cuz their strength is in numbers so you field 45 or however many, ogres in small units for mobitiy, every army has strengths and weaknesses.

To say an army who specs in 1 phase out of 4 should win is ignorance.

if you learn to box and only throw left jabs should you win against a guy who can throw left jabs, right hooks, left hooks and haymakers? no, cuz your left jab, no matter how rediculously good, cant compliment your other punches.

I any other circumstance this is accurate than with vc magic phase.

thats why people dislike them. they ONLY have to focus on one to win. everyone else needs a combination (excluding teclis magic line and thorek gun lines, as they in themselves are mega gooby).

Again, you can field vc lists that dont require the 16 pwr dice, but people load up on heroes, like 500pt lords n nonsense, then say "oh but this is how my army wins"

Either stop with the 1 phase spamming armies that people cant beat cuz their armies cant field a substantial enough defense, or take the fact that people dont like losing in 1 phase of the game.

The SkaerKrow
11-06-2009, 18:18
Easily Vampire Counts, though in truth I don't find any army that's ignores the normal break test rules to be that fun to play against.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap
11-06-2009, 18:18
First off, obviously youve never played AGAINST vc without a top tier army.

Secondly. 4 phases of the game correct?

Movement- VC magic can dictate this phase in the magic phase with vanhels. giving them superior mobility in an army designed to be slow and ponderous.

Magic- VC pretty much dominate this as they throw 16 SINGLE dice with bonus'. unless your very dull, you realize it IS impossible to field even close to that in dispel dice. or your army is spending hundreds of points on it. Dont forget when your sacrificing points to attempt to stop spells, especially spells that the opposing players rolls 1 dice and usually gets 4+ you have to use 2 dice to reliably dispel. 1/2'ing your dispel pool. Dispel scrolls are useless as vc can spam their spells, grats u stop 2dice with 25 pts, he just casts the spell again... and again... and again...

Shooting-VC have none, their only downfall.

CC-VC magic can again, dominate this as your scary heroes fight the same champion over.... and over..... and over..... and the unit ur fighting gets bigger and bigger, even tho ONLY skeletons have died, somehow their getting more skeletons from the bits that are left over after a chosen of chaos takes his warhammer to it.

This isnt just to rag on VC, but their army can run all phases from the magic phase, so why WOULDNT a vc player do this? It makes perfect sense to utilize your armies strengths, you dont see units of 20goblins running around, cuz their strength is in numbers so you field 45 or however many, ogres in small units for mobitiy, every army has strengths and weaknesses.

To say an army who specs in 1 phase out of 4 should win is ignorance.

if you learn to box and only throw left jabs should you win against a guy who can throw left jabs, right hooks, left hooks and haymakers? no, cuz your left jab, no matter how rediculously good, cant compliment your other punches.

I any other circumstance this is accurate than with vc magic phase.

thats why people dislike them. they ONLY have to focus on one to win. everyone else needs a combination (excluding teclis magic line and thorek gun lines, as they in themselves are mega gooby).

Again, you can field vc lists that dont require the 16 pwr dice, but people load up on heroes, like 500pt lords n nonsense, then say "oh but this is how my army wins"

Either stop with the 1 phase spamming armies that people cant beat cuz their armies cant field a substantial enough defense, or take the fact that people dont like losing in 1 phase of the game.

Quoted for truth. It is this exact thing that makes playing Vampire Counts feel like pulling teeth more often than not. There is absolutely nothing more annoying than being outmanouvered, outfought, and having all those casualties you inflicted simply disappear, just because your opponent is dominating in the magic phase. I am not disparaging Vampire Count players at all, but they are an army that can really kill the fun factor for the other player.


EDIT: Well, okay, maybe I'm being unfair and thinking only of the WAAC Vampire armies. Ive seen quite a few VC builds that look like they are quite fun to play. But they are still an army that can all too easily slip into powergamer territory.

Lord Dan
11-06-2009, 18:25
thats why people dislike them. they ONLY have to focus on one to win. everyone else needs a combination (excluding teclis magic line and thorek gun lines, as they in themselves are mega gooby).


And with that, "mega gooby" is the new phrase to describe armies that are "broken".

Peril
11-06-2009, 22:11
Vampire Counts or anything associated with Tzeentch. I am usually ok with most everything but the ridiculous magic spam really grinds my gears.

kramplarv
11-06-2009, 22:43
It means that it's a *GAME*, which means *COMPETETIVE*, and I am trying to *WIN*.

If I don't win, that's absolutely okay, as long as my opponent is a fun guy, and a good sport. I will happily shake the hand of an opponent that simply outplays me, and defeats me, and I will happily shake the hand of an opponent who nobley goes down in defeat to me. Obviously, games are for entertainment and fun.

But part of the entertainment and fun is being competetive, and coming to win.

If you don't even come to win against me, then what is the point of me playing against you? It's a waste of my time if you're not even going to try.

Because I am. And I'm not going to be told that I am wrong

QFT. never ever fight me unless you want to fight to the death. I aint looking for a "good fun" with random dudes. I want to spend 3 hours in an intersting game where both sides tries to win. Unless your hell bent for winning, don't bother me. :)

regardless of that... WE are the most boring army to play against since they break almost all the core mechanics. Som exceptions are nice. But an whole army. Same with VC/DoC. They are plain boring to play against unless their general are making an effort not to build a boring list.

WE, DoC, Slayerarmy, VC is teh boring armies since WE dont follow the rules :p DoC,Slayer,VC don't care about breaktest or psychology.

Bac5665
11-06-2009, 22:55
VC
Brets
WE

All three of these make me beat my head into a wall. VC are just stupid for all the reasons repeated over and over in this thread. Brets just get so much for free and are so 1 dimensional it hurts. And wood elves just run away and don't actually play warhammer.

Now, these are all generalization. I've have very fun games against all three armies (I think... I can't actually think of any of the top of my head...) and it depends a lot on the player.

Penitent Engine
12-06-2009, 12:34
I play VC. So shoot me. PErsonally, I try not to make my games that boring by doing two things:
(1) always declaring or accepting challenges. No matter what. My general has died a few times, but what the hell-it's a game, and the odd cinematic CRUNCH is worth it :)
(2) BALLANCE. I tend to go with a mixed magic/CC army, and make sure to never have more than 10PD in a 2000pt army. That may sound like a lot, but seriously, if the VCs don't have a competitive magic phase then they are dead. Permanently.

Armies that I hate to face are Dwarfs (boring-as-hell gunlines), Wood Elves (although I would love to play AS them!!!) and Daemons of Tzeentch (just annoying generally).

squeekenator
12-06-2009, 12:59
Dwarves are the one army that I'll think twice about playing against. I haven't played against Daemons, but I have been annihilated by Dark Elves, so I know what it's like to play against a broken army. It's not nearly as fun as a proper game. But at least you're doing more than pushing troops around the battlefield and hoping the dice are with you. Against Dwarves all you do (with a proper Skaven horde like all the REAL MEN use) is march towards them and die a lot. If you're lucky enough to have some units survive to reach the enemy, the whole thing turns from a rollathon with nothing but boring shooting to a rollathon with nothing but boring and horribly protracted combats. You've pretty much won or lost by turn 3, but if you're going to win it takes the rest of the game to vvvvveeeeeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyyyyy sssssssssllllllllloooooooowwwwwwwwwlllllllllllyyyy yy confirm that victory.

High Leadership tarpits who are very durable and often stubborn are no fun to play against, particularly since their stubborness stops you from using tactics and flanking to win the combat faster. At least against Dark Elves you can pack up the moment you see the ASF Black Guard deploy; against Dwarves you have a decent chance of winning, so forfeiting is just silly, but getting the win is such a slow and painful procedure that I'm not sure it's worth it.

EDIT: I'm feeling rather incoherent right now, I apologise if this post makes no sense. If not, then just know that I hate Dwarves because they're so incredibly boring to play against.

Gazak Blacktoof
12-06-2009, 13:10
I know that my friend Patrick really hates High Elves because of always strikes first. For me its probably dwarfs as they're liable to simply sit there and wait which isn't much fun. My brother really dislikes the fear mechanic so it probably my tomb kings that give him the biggest headache- at least he's not fighting vampire counts!

Crymson
12-06-2009, 13:14
Warriors of Chaos, simply because I have yet to beat them in their current incarnation. My bogey-side, if you will.

Doomseer
12-06-2009, 13:19
It's got to be Dwarves, they are the definition of boring. Boring lists with boring tactics no matter who you are playing against resulting in the same game 99% of the time!

Commodus Leitdorf
12-06-2009, 13:21
Dark elves....not because I have any hate on for them. Its just that everyone and their mother around here plays them now and I'm getting annoyed at fighting them all the time.

Raellos
12-06-2009, 13:44
No - they aren't.

You need to know your opponent.

An "all-comers" list cannot beat a list that focuses on one particular phase of the game. Heard the phrase "jack of all trades, master of none"?

Just so you know, the rest of the phrase is "but oft times better than master of one". Bear in mind I'm tired and and have a cold, so I might be being a little bit forward, but;

One trick pony players are dicks.
Power gamers in friendly club matches are dicks.
Anybody that thinks "well I'm not being marked for sports, so..."

So, what's so bad about VC if they've got a balanced list? Is it the army or are the players just dicks?

I disliked playing against the old skinks. Even just a few units got to me, with my limited fast cav choices, and limited shooting.

Simon23
12-06-2009, 13:56
A game is a game and I like to play.

I play wood elves but I don't really play points denial so I don't feel guilty at all. I play a lovely balanced list that is still rather damn hard. The only race I find annoying is magic heavy VC and Dwarf gunlines. Everyone else is great.

But I reiterate... I rarely get games so any game is fun really. :)

Angelwing
12-06-2009, 14:43
My least favourite army is a tournie tuned force that gets wheeled out for a game specifically agreed beforehand to be balanced list friendly game.
I've had this stunt pulled on me a few times, and I could tell how just how pointless the game would be before deployment.

Valkar the Butcher
12-06-2009, 17:42
definatly has to b Chaos Dwarves. i bloody hate those earthshakers :(

DoomBringer
12-06-2009, 18:32
Deamons, the lot of them..

Also, Though I do not dislike High Elves, I do despise the fact that they all have ASF.

polexenes
13-06-2009, 00:38
don't like playing pure tzeentch daemons kust seems to be an hour or two of watching the tzeentch magic tear my army to peices while i try eve trick in the book to get a shot in edgeways, and vampires/ dark elves seem way overpowerd but maybe thats just the guy's at my shop

Nell2ThaIzzay
13-06-2009, 23:17
Just so you know, the rest of the phrase is "but oft times better than master of one". Bear in mind I'm tired and and have a cold, so I might be being a little bit forward, but;

One trick pony players are dicks.
Power gamers in friendly club matches are dicks.
Anybody that thinks "well I'm not being marked for sports, so..."

So, what's so bad about VC if they've got a balanced list? Is it the army or are the players just dicks?

I disliked playing against the old skinks. Even just a few units got to me, with my limited fast cav choices, and limited shooting.

Yes, that is rather forward and blunt.

I have no problem playing against "one trick pony" armies. I want to play a fun game against a good opponent.

I do not expect someone to go out of their way to make a list that is "fair and balanced" so that I can win without my dire wolves and fell bats, or whatever units I didn't bring to the table.

Just as I am not going to go out of my way to create a list that meets -YOUR- standards.

I am playing a game to have fun according to my OWN criteria. I will make the lists that I enjoy playing with. If that means magic heavy (I go about 10 - 12 PD in a 2K game), then so be it.

You can claim that I am ruining your enjoyment of the game by bringing a magic heavy list to the table, but quite frankly, you're ruining MY enjoyment of the game by complaining about every PD that I throw to cast an Invocation of Nehek.

Dag
13-06-2009, 23:39
You can claim that I am ruining your enjoyment of the game by bringing a magic heavy list to the table, but quite frankly, you're ruining MY enjoyment of the game by complaining about every PD that I throw to cast an Invocation of Nehek.

Well i wouldnt complain about 10 pd to be honest. thats not the troubling issue about VC... which VC players scapegoat like crazy. The issue with VC casting is you access the supposedly dangerous and fickle winds of magic to literally have your army move and fight, yet when you conjure up more magic thats more powerful than other peoples spells you have NO chance of messing up.

give OnG a 4+ regenerate d6+3 orc boys and you'll see how fast you vc'ers start B****ing and moaning.

Alathir
14-06-2009, 03:11
I will happily play an army, it all depends on the list to me. Although I am very reluctant to play any Deamons list... although I do like to take up the challenge with my Yvressian Infantry High Elves just because elves fighting deamons has great imagery surrounding it.

I hated play super skink armies back in 6th edition Lizardmen though...

I'm surprised to see so many hate playing Dark Elves and calling them broken. They have a few underpriced selections but they are far from being 'broken'. No one must verse a Druchii player with a sense of style.

TombKing101
14-06-2009, 04:52
my least favorite army to play against was definetely the high elf 2 dragons and 3 bolt throwers list...omg

S00N3R FR3AK
14-06-2009, 05:05
So far I have only played DE, Brets, and Lm and the DE game was just a warbands game(200 points) but their crossbow men I mean really, move and shoot, double tap to 4 shots, and armour pericing? The far more vetran players were talking about this and basicly all agreed it was BS. And well just the way they talked about the rest of the DE army didn't seem good either.

Gazak Blacktoof
14-06-2009, 09:26
4 shots with a crossbow? I think you mean 2 unless the warbands rules differ massively from those of normal warhammer fantasy.

The power of shooting depends entirely on which army you're playing. Against high elves it'll rip an army to shreds in short order, against chaos warriors or dwarfs its largely ineffectual.

Awilla the Hun
14-06-2009, 11:38
Tzeentchian daemons.

I got into warhammer fantasy so as I could unleash Rome: Total War on the tabletop, with manouvere, leadership and tactics being just as important as the flashy weapons in warhammer 40,000.

But, having played the above list in a small points game (and seeing them use more power dice than anyone else could ever without an army at least twice the size- and all their spells being hideously destructive), I've stuck with 40k pretty much ever since.

And they can hold out in close combat (ward saves, massed ranks, never run.) And continue to burn their enemys' faces off with magic even whilst they're in close combat.

Nell2ThaIzzay
15-06-2009, 04:37
Well i wouldnt complain about 10 pd to be honest. thats not the troubling issue about VC... which VC players scapegoat like crazy. The issue with VC casting is you access the supposedly dangerous and fickle winds of magic to literally have your army move and fight, yet when you conjure up more magic thats more powerful than other peoples spells you have NO chance of messing up.

give OnG a 4+ regenerate d6+3 orc boys and you'll see how fast you vc'ers start B****ing and moaning.

What are you talking about no chance of messing it up? We can miscast just like anyone else.

Are you talking about being able to spam the Necromancy spells? Because if that's the case, there is only 1 spell that can really be spammed on 1 die, and that's Invocation of Nehek, which I'd hardly call "more powerful than other people's spells". Plus, if you 1 die it, then it becomes so freaking simple to dispel because you will never roll more than a 6 (7 if you have the +1 from Lord of the Dead).

Raise Dead cannot consistently be 1 die'd because it's a 5+, and Vanhel's Danse Macabre *CAN'T* be 1 die spammed because it's a 7+. Therefore, the risk to miscast is there.

And I don't even know what you're talking about with your 4+ regen / D6+3 bit.

Lordsaradain
15-06-2009, 10:31
Wood elves.

And any VC army using cairn wraiths when I'm not using my DoC. :P