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View Full Version : Brettonian list 2250 - Tailored for current tourney environment and some thoughts.



nick_robinsonchia
16-06-2009, 17:37
Hey all,

Having messed around with different lists and having read alot Im beginning to shy away from collecting Vamps as it seems that the majority of people seem to be posting vamps demons and dark elf lists... I dont like to be in the majority to be honest. Anyhow I was looking at brettonians and came up with this list bearing in mind the tourney scene is rife with fearcausing ITP/unbreakable stuff with lots of magic and big creatures....

Note: I have discussed choices below the list. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Characters

Lord - Pegasus, Grail Vow, Sword of heroes, Grail shield, Virtue of audacity
BSB - Barded Steed, Gromril Great helm, Biting blade, Virtue of discipline.
2 Damsels - Steeds, 3 dispel scolls and chalice of mafleur.

Core

8 Knights errant - FC - Errantry Banner (BSB here)
6 Knights of the Realm - Full Command - Twilight banner
6 Knights Errant - Musician Champion
12 Archers - Skirmishing, musician, Braziers

Special

8 Questing Knights - FC - Valourous Standard (Damsel here)
5 Mounted Yeoman
5 mounted Yeoman
4 Pegasus Knights - Champion

Rare

7 Grail Knights - FC (Damsel here)[/B]



Choices:

Lord - Pegasus, Grail Vow, Sword of heroes, Grail shield, Virtue of audacity.
- (This is my monster killer - situationally rerolling to hit and wound doing d3 wounds this guy should be able to bring down monstrous mounts and free ranging monsters pretty succesfully. He is ITP so will not autobreak if I whiff. Looking at the army below I found that big hitty monsters and unbreakables are this lists bane. Hopefully with a general so equipped it will help nuetralise one threat)

BSB - Barded Steed, Gromril Great helm, Biting blade, Virtue of discipline.
(Compulsory choice and equipped to help the Errants who he will be with. Magic weapon for incorporeals, immune to outnumber and reasonably survivable he is a nice addition to the erranty unit.)

2 Damsels - Steeds, 3 dispel scolls and chalice of mafleur.
(Magic is heavy with the better lists so opted for two caddies sadly. I would have loved to have put the points elsewhere but with the cheese that is abundant state-side I think 5 DD and 3 scrolls is necessary. Each rides with a my hammer questers and grail respectively.

Hammer Units

8 Knights errant - FC - Errantry Banner (BSB here)
8 Questing Knights - FC - Valourous Standard (Damsel here)
7 Grail Knights - FC (Damsel here)

These are my reliable charges. The grail and errants are both ITP on the charge and the questers can reroll psychology on leadership 8 with the coldblooded rule lol. These boys should hit home reliably - something that is necessary in the tourney scene atm.

Auxiliary units


6 Knights of the Realm - Full Command - Twilight banner
6 Knights Errant - Musician Champion
12 Archers - Skirmishing, musician, Braziers
5 Mounted Yeoman
5 mounted Yeoman
4 Pegasus Knights - Champion

All pretty simple to see what they do. Realm knights will use that tricky banner to manouver for flanks/rear charges (altho with only ld 8 I will have to be careful at choosing targets) Errant are a flanking unit for one fo my hammer lances - reliable at it also). Archers take out vulnerable but necessary targets. Mounted Yeoman to screen, possibly grab a flank charge etc. They will likely just be death bait. And the pegasus knights to be one hell of a pain in the butt.

On pegasus knights : I think the flying circus is not as viable as it once was due to the extreme amount of fear causing units about often accompanied by ld bomb type effects means that - Leadership 8 with no rerolls is easy to fail. Therefore I opted for only one unit at this stage to cover redundancies. Maybe two might be a good option one for each flank but at this stage Il stick with one.


Cheers

N

nick_robinsonchia
18-06-2009, 02:08
No bites? No one plays brets anymore?

stonetroll
18-06-2009, 03:27
There is definately Bret players out here, I am one in the making and will try to coment on your list to the best of my possibilities.



Lord - Pegasus, Grail Vow, Sword of heroes, Grail shield, Virtue of audacity.
- (This is my monster killer - situationally rerolling to hit and wound doing d3 wounds this guy should be able to bring down monstrous mounts and free ranging monsters pretty succesfully. He is ITP so will not autobreak if I whiff. Looking at the army below I found that big hitty monsters and unbreakables are this lists bane. Hopefully with a general so equipped it will help nuetralise one threat)

I think you are absolutely right with the purpose of your lord. He may not guarantee a kill on a big nasty, but he will definately have your opponents think twice about trumping straight into their lines (which is all you need, since without that big nasty flyer in your lines, your knights should be able to clear up most battle lines). There is e setups that can do this job mio. Obviously yours, the other one being Virtue of Heroism and Tres of Isoulde. This is a bit more risky, but leaves some extra points for defensive magic items (id opt for enchanted shield). Try both and let us know what you prefer!


BSB - Barded Steed, Gromril Great helm, Biting blade, Virtue of discipline.
(Compulsory choice and equipped to help the Errants who he will be with. Magic weapon for incorporeals, immune to outnumber and reasonably survivable he is a nice addition to the erranty unit.)

I prefer my setup a little different: Virtue of Duty, and Wyrmlance. Sure, against opponents that will outnumber you, your setup is better, but think about the amount of enemies that still outnumber you AFTER combat (if they do, you probably shouln't have charged), in which case your Virtue is useless. Also Biting blade does not really make him hitty, just makes him able to hit ethereals. Wyrmlance does the same while also adding some nice punch. Sure he's not as survivable without the Helm, but I have a champion to accept challenges (so heroic :p).


2 Damsels - Steeds, 3 dispel scolls and chalice of mafleur.
(Magic is heavy with the better lists so opted for two caddies sadly. I would have loved to have put the points elsewhere but with the cheese that is abundant state-side I think 5 DD and 3 scrolls is necessary. Each rides with a my hammer questers and grail respectively.
Couldn't agree more with you. Those damsels are 255 points down the drain, but in the current environment we kinda HAVE to if we want to compete decently.


Hammer Units

8 Knights errant - FC - Errantry Banner (BSB here)
8 Questing Knights - FC - Valourous Standard (Damsel here)
7 Grail Knights - FC (Damsel here)

These are my reliable charges. The grail and errants are both ITP on the charge and the questers can reroll psychology on leadership 8 with the coldblooded rule lol. These boys should hit home reliably - something that is necessary in the tourney scene atm.

I like the idea of your big KE unit with BSB. The Grail Knights and QK are, though admittedly reliable, huge point sinks. I'm not sure if their reliability will pay for their increased pt cost. I might consider swapping the banner on the QK for the War Banner. You want reliable, but do you need them to be THAT reliable? Plus they're not that hitty, so the extra CR will come to good use I think.


Auxiliary units


6 Knights of the Realm - Full Command - Twilight banner
6 Knights Errant - Musician Champion
12 Archers - Skirmishing, musician, Braziers
5 Mounted Yeoman
5 mounted Yeoman
4 Pegasus Knights - Champion

All pretty simple to see what they do. Realm knights will use that tricky banner to manouver for flanks/rear charges (altho with only ld 8 I will have to be careful at choosing targets) Errant are a flanking unit for one fo my hammer lances - reliable at it also). Archers take out vulnerable but necessary targets. Mounted Yeoman to screen, possibly grab a flank charge etc. They will likely just be death bait. And the pegasus knights to be one hell of a pain in the butt.

Solid number of supporting units for your hammers imo. I like the use of the Twilight Banner a lot. Maybe try to squeeze some points somewheren for a musician in the PK? Also, what's the point of the 4th peg knight in that unit? is he just there to absorb casualties (kinda expensive for that) because you will still take Panic if one dies. Maybe drop one, add a Grail Knight and musicians for your Fascav?


On pegasus knights : I think the flying circus is not as viable as it once was due to the extreme amount of fear causing units about often accompanied by ld bomb type effects means that - Leadership 8 with no rerolls is easy to fail. Therefore I opted for only one unit at this stage to cover redundancies. Maybe two might be a good option one for each flank but at this stage Il stick with one.

I think this vision is correct. Pegasus knights are rockhard, but won't exactly cut it anymore in today's Psychology based environment. You have compensated pretty well for this with the (semi) reliable hammers instead.

Cheers

All in all a very good list imo, I'm keen to hear what your experiences with it are, and will definately try it out myself!

N

Then one question in return.... I have a 2K tournament coming up, what would you sugest dropping from this list to get it to that pt level? (I'd drop a single PK and a sinlge QK, but can't see too much "fat" on the list otherwise)

P.S. Watch some of Once Bitten's Battle reports on Youtube. They're excellent material. His list is quite different from what you have (though also quite competitive imo)... he has gone for "more hitty" then you, but his army is not as reliable.

stonetroll
18-06-2009, 04:41
Mmmm... this list really caught my interest!
I spent some time with it, and took the liberty of trying to fit in my own suggestions. Keen to see what you think of it:

2250

Characters

1 Bretonnian Lord @ 278 pts: Pegasus, Grail Vow, Sword of heroes, Grail shield, Virtue of audacity
1 Paladin @ 124 pts: Barded Steed, Virtue of Duty, Wyrmlance.
1 Damsel @ 130 pts: Steed, 2 dispel scolls
1 Damsel @ 125 pts: Steed, Dispel Scroll, Chalice of Malfleur

Core

8 Knights errant @ 201: pts Standard Bearer, Errantry Banner
5 Knights of the Realm @ 169 pts: Full Command - Twilight banner
6 Knights Errant @ 127 pts: Musician Champion
11 Archers @ 82 pts: Skirmishing, Braziers
10 Archers @ 65 pts: Braziers

Special

8 Questing Knights @ 276 pts: Standard Bearer, War Banner
5 Mounted Yeoman @ 87 pts: Musician
5 Mounted Yeoman @ 87 pts: Musician
3 Pegasus Knights @ 175 pts: Musician

Rare

8 Grail Knights @ 324 pts: Standard Bearer

2250 pts total

nick_robinsonchia
18-06-2009, 19:16
Hey stone,

Thankyou very much for the reply much appreciated!!!

I really like ur adaptation, u seem to have trimmed some of the fat from a lean list and I think it will work very well. I like your bsb loadout better and will change to yours - much nicer.

Im toying with the idea of putting my lord on a regular steed and giving him the grom great helm instead of the grail shield. This would offer him alot more protection. However Im worried that it would severly compromise his purppose through lack of mobility. i.e monster killing or at least monster harrassing lol.

As to the warbanner vs coldblooded banner - i dunno with slanesh leadership bombs etc and even with unlucky rolls i worry about the viability of the unit to charge. the 3d6 'should' enable them to charge whenever they want - which is very important to me. The warbanner is definately better vs non fear causers (ie most things not demons or undead) but this army should trollop through most others anyhow - undead and demons are the hardest opponents for brets, the most common in the tourney scene, and the most powerful. At the end of the day it comes down to preference but im guessing il be sticking with it to 'make sure' those crucial charges go through.

Gluck and thanks again!!!

N

Kill-Freedom
18-06-2009, 23:39
Questing knights fail, regardless...

Should spend the points elsewhere, maybe on another unit of grail knights

nick_robinsonchia
19-06-2009, 01:41
Questing knights fail, regardless...

Should spend the points elsewhere, maybe on another unit of grail knights

Grail are 0-1. I dunno they aint that bad. They have the potential for sticking power which is great against VC and demons....

Kill-Freedom
19-06-2009, 01:44
Grail are 0-1. I dunno they aint that bad. They have the potential for sticking power which is great against VC and demons....

Oh yeah forgot bout that, been a while since i played my brets lol