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Troah
16-06-2009, 21:50
So in a few days I'm fighting Tomb Kings in a friendly game, she's new to Warhammer so I don't want so have too serious of an army. I've never been in a competition for Warhammer so how competitive is an EotG, if you can have four EotG in a 2,000 point battle, and if it you can, is it very mean or very stupid?

Griffery
16-06-2009, 21:51
Four EotGs would dominate. If it is supposed to be a friendly game u souldn't do that.

dwarfhold13
16-06-2009, 21:58
are you serious? i mean.. its easy to kill the skink off of the engine.. but if you don't or can't for any reason, thats 4 level 3 wizards on the board.. not to mention the 4 stegadons you bring to let em ride... i would say if you wanna be nice bring maybe two or three level 2 skinks or a slann and level 2 skink with wings

melgorth
16-06-2009, 22:00
If you are playing against a new player who plays Tomb Kings then that would be a mean enough thing to do as she probably wouldn't know how to handle them all, especially when Tomb Kings don't have that many tools for taking out monsterous creatures, excluding multiple Screaming Skull Catapults.

Dooks Dizzo
16-06-2009, 22:00
How is it easy to kill the skinks? 1-4 hits the steggy, 5 hits the crew and 6 hits the priest. The skinks get a 2+ armor save which stops a lot of light ranged fire and such.

Draconian77
16-06-2009, 22:04
Tomb Kings struggle with high T monsters in general, and playing against a new player I think 4 EotG's would be extremely unsporting.

More than anything else though, you really shouldn't get new players to play at 2+k in my opinion.

Bloodknight
16-06-2009, 22:07
Just don't do it. TK suck vs big creatures (SSC can kill them semi-reliably, and a TK with a Flail of Skulls, but only reliably on turn 1 of the combat; TK lack other stuff with enough oomph! - like heavy cavalry or several fighty heroes...TK need their liches too much for that - to react to threats like multiple Steggies), and bringing a lot of them will not exactly foster her fun.

Troah
16-06-2009, 22:13
Mmmmmm....perhaps an all Skink army then without stegs?

Nicha11
16-06-2009, 22:14
Mmmmmm....perhaps an all Skink army then without stegs?

The TK player will have serious trouble catching you.

Just take a nice list with a little bit of everything.

Draconian77
16-06-2009, 22:17
This is the best way of doing things, if you focus too much on a single type of unit in her first game then she may think that WHFB is one dimensional.

Don't take all the tricks and trinkets either, no need to build a powerful, points efficient army list when playing a new player, especially one using the rather underwhelming Tomb Kings army book.

Amr40
16-06-2009, 22:41
if you really want to get her into the game, then do what GW intro games do and play to loose. take a balanced army and let her win, she starts playing, gets more into the game, builds up skill and hey presto! you have a girl playing fantasy!

madness and heresy i tell's ye! heresy!

PARTYCHICORITA
16-06-2009, 22:52
Four EotGs would dominate. If it is supposed to be a friendly game u souldn't do that.

hahaha so true. When i read the thread's title i thought it was gonna be about crazy power gaming.

Troah
16-06-2009, 22:54
hahaha so true. When i read the thread's title i thought it was gonna be about crazy power gaming.

Too bad I don't know how to powergame. :D

Unuhexium
16-06-2009, 23:21
Just take a nice list with a little bit of everything.

I agree with this.

You can also take this opportunity to try your less competative units (the guys you have, but never use for various reasons) or different formations. That way both of you can learn from the game. She learns to play the game and you can develope new strategies in a not too competative environment.

Depending om how her brain works it might be a bad idea to just let her win. Either do it subtly or use a non-competative army and see what you can do. I for one would hate that an experienced player just handed me a victory if i knew he could've kicked my ass back to the Chaos Wastes. You can help her optimise her army and then use a pretty goofy army yourself "I want to try some new tricks" (as mentioned above). The game is real, but the playingfield is more leveled.

Just remember: a bit of everything and none of those cookiecutter supercombos that everyone knows are awesome.

Necromancy Black
16-06-2009, 23:25
Too bad I don't know how to powergame. :D

You do, you just don't realise it :p

Play her at 1500 points, much much better game for he to play at as a new player. I would say 1000 points but TK need a few characters on the table so it's a bit too short.

Don't take a steg, and do whatever else you want with your list. That'll be the best way about it.

Oh, and take the cube of Darkness :p Gotta be a bastard at some point.

Troah
16-06-2009, 23:30
You can help her optimise her army and then use a pretty goofy army yourself "I want to try some new tricks" (as mentioned above). The game is real, but the playingfield is more leveled.



Only problem with that is I have no clue how TK works. I know they need Liches and Princes/Kings but that's about it.

Necromancy Black
16-06-2009, 23:35
They're basic undead really. There leaders arn't as powerful as Vampires but still pack a bunch. One of the Lich Priest is the Heirophant, who is the guy you'll need to kill in order to make the army crumble (wouldn't really bother trying to hunt him that much)

The magic is the interesting part, as it's all bound spells. TK can never march but they have a good movement spell so be damn careful of that. Also they have a very strict casting order which I think is: Kings, Princes, Heirophant, Priests, Bound Spell items, Casket of Souls.

So the first priest to cast spells is her heirophant, in case you've got something like terradons wanting to it down.

jax40kplyr1
16-06-2009, 23:35
Tomb Kings can be a killer against Engines - if they take 2 catapults - they can potentially get off 4 shots a turn. Figure in some carrion to fly up and be sacrificial march blockers - it doesn't take much to work. This has happened to me several times now:
Catapult just has to hit the steg base. Randomize the Str 8 hit - usually hits the steg, wounding on a 2+. Does D6 wounds. 4+ on each crew member to hit, kills on a 2+. 4+ to hit the priest, wounds on a 2+, does D6 wounds.

Figure in he can potentially get off 4 a turn, with a minimum of 2 a turn can be lots of dead engines.

Jushak
16-06-2009, 23:42
As others have pointed out, 4x EotG would be incredibly unsporting. However, going with worst possible list you can think of isn't good either. Try and make an all comers list, preferably using simple tactics without anything sneaky stuffed in.

As for the game itself, I would seriously advice againts losing on purpose. If she's smart enough to play the game, she'll be smart enough to know when you're losing on purpose.

Troah
16-06-2009, 23:46
As for the game itself, I would seriously advice againts losing on purpose. If she's smart enough to play the game, she'll be smart enough to know when you're losing on purpose.

Lol you'd think that but she can be pretty blonde at times. :D

Spirit
17-06-2009, 04:16
If the casket of souls is on the board and you dont stop it, look out for those stegs.

LD6 vs casket should = 3 wounds per steg! I know its randomised but all its gonna take is one double 6 lol.

Jericho
17-06-2009, 06:19
Good call Spirit. The Casket is 2d6+2 - the opponent's Ld, not a Ld test at -2 like I thought it was... so Cold-blooded is useless. That could catch a lot of Lizardmen players off guard!

Anyway 1 would probably be plenty just to show how monstrous mounts work. You don't want to spend 1600 points on characters to show someone how to play the game, and you don't want someone to learn by facing such a nasty, unconventional army list.

decker_cky
17-06-2009, 07:41
How often will you get the casket off though? 4 engines means 4 L3 wizards, so 10 dispel dice.

slingersam
17-06-2009, 08:34
If you really want to take a nice list 1 ETOG isn't bad. Take a skink priest for a little bit more defensive and maybe offensive magic. If you have the following heres a nice 1500 point list (Aprox.) Don't have book on me doing this at 1.30 AM in a hotel.
Hero
Scar-vet - Hide of cold one, Great weapon, (not sure if legal but take shield and light armor)
Skink Priest - ETOG, diadem of power

Core
18x Saurus Warriors - FC, Spears
17x Saurus Warriors - FC, Spears
10x Skinks
10x Skinks

Special
3x Terradons

This list isn't to bad, also you have about 300-500 points left so that you can take some of your stuff. One thing I like to do is take the scaven pelt banner I just feel that it is halarious when people ask "how many attacks do your saurus warriors get? :eek:"

maze ironheart
17-06-2009, 10:09
If you really want to take a nice list 1 ETOG isn't bad. Take a skink priest for a little bit more defensive and maybe offensive magic. If you have the following heres a nice 1500 point list (Aprox.) Don't have book on me doing this at 1.30 AM in a hotel.
Hero
Scar-vet - Hide of cold one, Great weapon, (not sure if legal but take shield and light armor)
Skink Priest - ETOG, diadem of power

Core
18x Saurus Warriors - FC, Spears
17x Saurus Warriors - FC, Spears
10x Skinks
10x Skinks

Special
3x Terradons

This list isn't to bad, also you have about 300-500 points left so that you can take some of your stuff. One thing I like to do is take the scaven pelt banner I just feel that it is halarious when people ask "how many attacks do your saurus warriors get? :eek:"

Just to say the skaven pelt banner is for skinks only second if you want your skink priest to survive then give him a glyph neckless a 5+ ward save plus a 2+ armour save will save him in combat and you could also give him the plaque of tepok.I have mine with the same items it works really well especially if you face a lord who forces you to re-roll succesful armour saves and haveing an extra chance to get the comet of cassandora is even better.

archie-d
17-06-2009, 10:14
which I think is: Kings, Princes, Heirophant, Priests, Bound Spell items, Casket of Souls.


regular units bounds, princes, kings, liches, high liches, casket.

any character with bounds has to use them before he incants

edit: having said that, for her first game, i wouldnt be too strict on it tbh. its gonna be tough as it is.

Gaargod
17-06-2009, 12:01
Just to say you've missed the point Maze. The saurus themselves can't take the banner, but there's nothing to stop a skink chief BSB from taking it. And riding a steg while he's at it.

I tend to give my EotG diadem + scroll if he's defensive, Plaque of Tepok (and rod of storm, if i have the points somehow) if not.


TK are quite a complicated army to play well - they're not that powerful either, and your friend might do better with a less complicated army (high elves maybe?)

Spirit
17-06-2009, 14:43
Just to say you've missed the point Maze. The saurus themselves can't take the banner, but there's nothing to stop a skink chief BSB from taking it. And riding a steg while he's at it.



Just to point out. If you put this guy in a unit of saurus, he can just be baited out because he has M6 and the saurus have M4. Simply move a unit to within 9-12" away and the bsb has to charge out on its own.

Its the one reason konrad von carstein is a bit rubbish.

ghost of scubasteve
17-06-2009, 15:07
why would you do this to a new player in a "friendly" game??

why is this even a question??

N810
17-06-2009, 15:29
Just to say you've missed the point Maze. The saurus themselves can't take the banner, but there's nothing to stop a skink chief BSB from taking it. And riding a steg while he's at it...

You could also field him on foot with the saurus,
just be shure to run some cheep skinks in front of
him so he doesn't charge out of the unit,
when you are finaly in saurus charge range just get the skinks out of the way.

Shamfrit
17-06-2009, 15:31
If she has a Tomb King with the Destroyer of Eternities, she will lol at your pathetic excuse for Stegadons :D

EvC
17-06-2009, 16:33
...or Flail of Skulls, or Screaming Skull Catapults, or multiple Tomb Scorpions...

I don't know why people don't believe in Tomb Kings any more, they have a lot of hard abilities even in this edition.

fubukii
17-06-2009, 17:03
i think its because minus SCC and tomb scorpions everything in thier list is iffy at best?

EvC
17-06-2009, 17:10
Ushabti, Bone Giants, Skeleton Warriors... none of them are very good, no. But theere's not much else wrong with the list. Heroes that cast movement spells with T5 and 3 wounds? Wizards that don't miscast? Archers that always hit on 5s and never panic? Tomb Guard that can reform before moving? T4 flyers? Chariot units as core? And that's ignoring the two truly excellent units as mentioned.

Lordmonkey
17-06-2009, 23:29
There are WAAC players I know that would not even consider that... 0_0

If she's learning to play, TK (alongside daemons and VC) are a terrible army to start with. You omit many of the rules when concerning your own forces... better you take a sample army of your own if you have one and lend it to her for tutelage :)

Troah
17-06-2009, 23:40
There are WAAC players I know that would not even consider that... 0_0

If she's learning to play, TK (alongside daemons and VC) are a terrible army to start with. You omit many of the rules when concerning your own forces... better you take a sample army of your own if you have one and lend it to her for tutelage :)

What's WAAC?

I had her read up on all the armies backgrounds, had her read some novels (How I got her into Warhammer) and she likes Tomb Kings the most. It might be a hard army to start with but I have no doubt that she'll learn it quite nicely. ;)

Cats Laughing
18-06-2009, 00:03
Win
At
All
Costs

Not something you want in a friendly game trying teach a new player.

dwarfhold13
18-06-2009, 13:16
How is it easy to kill the skinks? 1-4 hits the steggy, 5 hits the crew and 6 hits the priest. The skinks get a 2+ armor save which stops a lot of light ranged fire and such.

well.. quite simple and usually how i get rid of at least just the skink... charge the steggie and challenge the skink :)yeah he has a 2+ save.. but put enough attacks on him and watch him go down.. shooting at it is useless unless you just get lucky

TacticalFirepower
18-06-2009, 13:24
Play to win for sure. There's no point losing on purpose, as no one learns anything that way. The best way to get players playing better is to crush their armies, then they reevaluate their lists and tactics.

Troah
18-06-2009, 17:00
Well we fought and I kinda let her win at the last moment. I brought Skinks/Kroxigors, Cold One Cavalry, a single normal Steggadon. So basically all of my army had fear/terror. She had a nice balanced army all though I had hoped that she brought another unit of chariots. In the end she had her high Liche Priest with a unit of skellies vs my lord (on a cold one) and a small unit of Skink/Kroxagor. through magic she won, I had a chance to kill her HLP but I chose not to, I wanted her to win.

It was pretty fun and we both enjoyed it and I can't wait to battle her again later tonight. ;)

Cats Laughing
18-06-2009, 23:42
It was pretty fun and we both enjoyed it and I can't wait to battle her again later tonight. ;)

Good, that's the point of the game.
Congrats on a fun game for both.

Lord Dan
18-06-2009, 23:50
Play to win for sure. There's no point losing on purpose, as no one learns anything that way. The best way to get players playing better is to crush their armies, then they reevaluate their lists and tactics.
I have nothing to say to this that wouldn't get me in trouble. I just wanted to make sure other people didn't miss it.



Well we fought and I kinda let her win at the last moment. I brought Skinks/Kroxigors, Cold One Cavalry, a single normal Steggadon. So basically all of my army had fear/terror. She had a nice balanced army all though I had hoped that she brought another unit of chariots. In the end she had her high Liche Priest with a unit of skellies vs my lord (on a cold one) and a small unit of Skink/Kroxagor. through magic she won, I had a chance to kill her HLP but I chose not to, I wanted her to win.

It was pretty fun and we both enjoyed it and I can't wait to battle her again later tonight. ;)
Sounds like you had fun. Good times.

...why is there a winking emoticon after "battle her later tonight"? :p

Troah
18-06-2009, 23:52
...why is there a winking emoticon after "battle her later tonight"? :p

Lol what do you think? ;)

Lord Dan
18-06-2009, 23:58
Lol what do you think? ;)

There are just so many TK related "bone" jokes I could make right now. Must...resist...

Troah
19-06-2009, 00:00
There are just so many TK related "bone" jokes I could make right now. Must...resist...

Lol. Oh Lord Dan, I love you. Lol.

Necromancy Black
19-06-2009, 00:04
There are just so many TK related "bone" jokes I could make right now. Must...resist...

It's much fuinnier in 40k with Ork Nobs and Sisters of Battle.

"My nob penertrate the rear of your sister's tank. Better roll for damage."

kardar233
19-06-2009, 04:28
Let's go off this topic quickly...

Lord Dan
19-06-2009, 04:35
Let's go off this topic quickly...


...go off... quickly...

Okay, now I think we can move on.

EvC
19-06-2009, 17:14
It was pretty fun and we both enjoyed it and I can't wait to battle her again later tonight. ;)

That's one battle you certainly won't win...

Lowmans
19-06-2009, 17:39
Yup.

I think she'll come out on top :)

Lord Dan
19-06-2009, 18:02
I'm sure it was hard for him.

Spirit
20-06-2009, 14:29
I'm sure it was hard for him.

Are you making the innuendos in your comments intentionally easy to spot? lol

dwarfhold13
20-06-2009, 15:55
aww jeez

i'm just curious.. when you showed her your engine of the gods... did she freak?

Lord Dan
20-06-2009, 16:55
Are you making the innuendos in your comments intentionally easy to spot? lol

I could go all day if I had to.

Troah
20-06-2009, 18:25
aww jeez

i'm just curious.. when you showed her your engine of the gods... did she freak?

I showed her that I could take four of them and told her what they can do and what not and she had the saddest look on her face it was so cute. But when we battled I didn't have an Ancient Steggadon, just a normal one.