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View Full Version : 2250pts of Skaven, somewhat SAD



iaguz
17-06-2009, 16:56
Ok, I've never played Skaven before but I've got a fairly good understanding of how they play (horde up, shoot 'em up then flank, rank and spank them up when they get close). This is my first untested list, please ate it for effectiveness and for comp. Note, this is basically the same list I've put up on in the 'how to budget skaven' thread, so it may look a bit familiar.

CHARACTERS

Warlord with Heavy armour and shield
Weeping Blade (+1 str and D3 wounds)
Bands of Power (Bound, P lvl 4, doubles users base strength for next 2 rounds of combat)
Warpstone Trinket (5+ ward save)

199pts

Warplock Engineer. All kit minus pistol. Scroll.
Warplock Engineer. All kit minus pistol. Scroll.
Warplock Engineer. All kit minus pistol. Storm Daemon (Bound, P lvl 4, casts 5+ warp lightning spell, loses charge on a 1 after every use)

110 pts each.

CORE

24 clanrats, FC, Ratling guns
24 clanrats, FC, Ratling guns
24 clanrats, FC, Ratling guns

210 pts each

20 Slaves, Muso.
20 Slaves, Muso.
20 Slaves, Muso.

44 pts each

2 Globadiers
2 Globadiers
2 Globadiers

60pts each

5 Night runners
5 Night runners.

25 pts each.

SPECIAL

20 Plague Monks with FC and AHW.
Banner of Burning Hatred (Gives hatred to unit. Every turn, roll a d6. On a 1-3 unit must march as fast as it can towards closest enemy)

210pts

5 Jezzails
5 Jezzails
5 Jezzails

100 pts each

RARE

Warp Lightning Cannon

100 pts

4 Ironguts, standard, muso

roughly 250-ish points (not sure how much exactly, but I know 5 ironguts w/ standard and muso is 275pts, so I'm positive it fits)

8 PD, 2 bounds, 5 DD, 2 scrolls. 195 individual miniatures.

Basic plan is to deploy, move forward (if required) lock enemies in combat with clanrats and slaves whilst blasting them to pieces with everything else. Play the jolly game of attrition, basically. It's got enough nuking capability to deal with almost any threat, and it's got a few combat units that can dish out a punch if required. One combo I like is the plague monks and Warlord. In a happy scenario, they charge in and he dishes out 4 str 9 hatred attacks that deal d3 wounds. That's enough to rip up most characters, methinks.

This army is a touch different from regular SAD. First up, most SAD doesn't take 3 units of jezzails (at least I don't think it does). Second, it uses DoW Ironguts, for those cases where a ton of str 6 attacks would really come in handy. Third, it's a bit smaller then a few Skaven armies, it's not even 200 strong! I think you don't really need to horde too much nowadays because the most scariest armies around focus on massive concentrations of power (DE, Vamps and Daemons) and there's no point trying to smother them under a tide of rat fur because it simply won't work. However, careful use of the ironguts and plague monks backed up by superior firepower should hopefully be enough to topple the worst of enemy threats. Also, it's harder to keep a large horde completely under the General's LD radius, but it's easier to do it with a smaller horde.

As far as comp goes it's not, I'm guessing, terribly polite. The amount of PD is certainly near the line of unfriendliness and there is a fair bit of shooting to boot! I do get the feeling that 15 jezzails might be a few too many for some people's tastes. Still, it's an old army and on tiered comp listings it's not considered the hardest army around, so I spose that helps.

I'm also not sure about those ironguts. Perhaps I should get Maneaters instead, with brace of handguns for some extra firepower? Or a giant, for some hopefully great tarpitting potential.

So, Whaddya think?

yorch
17-06-2009, 17:44
You got the point cost wrong... clanrat units are 205 points, not 210 (210 would be for 25 clanrats). The ironguts are 222 points, and the total are 2218 points, thus, you have 32 extra points.


Your list is not far from my style of playing with skavens (I play skaven only lists tough, no mercenaries), but I think you have to do some tweaks.

First, 3 engineers NEED the "eye of the horned rat". It's near compulsory, as you have to cast the spells with 3 dice (12% chance of irresistible force VS 0 for two dice). So, you need 3 dice per caster. Sure, you could lose one dice sometimes, but this doesn't break your strategy (without the eye you would be casting 9+,9+ and 5+ warp lightining anyway). Three 9+ warp lightning a turn is nasty :evilgrin: So, 25 points go there.

15 jezzails might be pushing it... but 5 jezzails units are easier to deploy and defend than larger ones, so it's not that bad.

The combination for the warlord is fine, but I usually take warpstone amulet (risky, but worth it IMHO) and the blade of black fury (6 st8 attacks with the bracelets). I find it better than using a weeping blade. The weeping blade has an edge VS big monsters, but the warlord has to survive first (not that likely with "only" 4+ AS and 5+WS :rolleyes: )

The unit I really don't like are the plague monks... I don't think they worth their points, they are only useful VS undead and the like (and of course, for giving you access to plague censers). I'd take an extra unit of clanrats + ratling gun instead. If you want to use them, change the banner of hatred for the war banner, it has no cons (the banner of hatred has a BIG con), and its pros last more than a turn. You don't want them to lose it's frenzy with a "lucky" roll. If you take them, you should take some plague censers instead of the warp lightining cannon, they are veeeery good. You could field 6 for 102 points. They worth every point.

fubukii
17-06-2009, 18:17
needs some work.

you missed out on some key skaven items for magic casting.
Eye of the horned rat will allow your 3rd warlock to cast with 3 dice.
Warpstone charm will Help your storm daemon warlock not fry himself by turn 4
increase slaves to 21 in size.
- drop the monks they wont kill anything short of the weakest troops in the game, and dont really fit in the list at all
- drop the banner on the ogres they arent big enough to justify a banner.
- merge the jezzails into 2 teams.
-2 add some 5 man tunnel teams with posioned hand weapons to help kill enemy war machines/mages/fast cav or other light units.
- if you have points left add another clanrat block. if not drop a ralting gun for it or some pwg. Also add 4th slave unit as well.

PeG
17-06-2009, 21:20
I prefer to have more bodies in combat. I would take one more unit of CR and one more unit of slaves. Also depending on what armies you play against you are sort of pushing it when it comes to SAD. max rattlings, max engineers etc at least you only have one WLC and no Seer.

dal9ll
17-06-2009, 22:10
Id drop 8 points somewhere and throw in a third slave unit and make them all have 21 guys instead of 20. Also, this looks like a good list , but not a friendly/fun list.

iaguz
18-06-2009, 05:01
Hey, thanks for all the feedback.

Do know that when crafting this list I'm keeping in mind a healthy composition score, which is this kinda weird tiered comp system used in a fair few Australian tournaments (not sure about other nations too, btw). So I'm going to have to make a few concessions in army effectiveness to ensure that, such as not going balls-out on magic items for the warlocks and why I'm going to shy away from those gutter runners too.

The plague monks aren't the greatest soldiers in the world, far from it, but I like to think they make a nice unit for the Warlord to sit in. He benefits from their hatred banner and they're the most elite infantry in the army (I know that's not really saying much). Also, can you not counter the worst of the hatred banners effects simply by keeping a unit positioned in front of them, such as globadiers, because they cannot move through them? Anyway, by keeping the Warlord in there not only does he benefit from their hatred but also their immune to psychology, so I don't have to bungle an early LD test and facepalm whilst my very important general runs away like a wee girly.

I like the rules for Censer Bearers but I don't like Disciples. I think that rule really hampers them as far as working with plague monks goes. I'm going to try my luck with ironguts who seem fairly solid anyway.

Also, why must slaves be 21 strong? Is there something I'm missing here or is it just a 'eh, they're only 2 pts' thing?

iaguz
18-06-2009, 05:05
Oh yeah, and in response to the comment that Plague Monks are only really useful vs undead. Well, seeing as VC's are probably a very tough matchup for Skaven thanks to the fact that any undead I blast will almost surely be coming back the next turn because of 1-die invo insanity, it would probably help to have a few units that were good vs undead.

PeG
18-06-2009, 08:39
If you are playing in comp tournys expect to get hit for using max rattlings and engineers. For comp purposes maybe switch one rattling for warp fire thrower, consider dropping the iron guts and maybe swapping one of the engineers for a priest to go with the monks.

yorch
18-06-2009, 12:22
@21 slaves

25% of 20 = 5
25% of 21 = 6 (roundup)

By spending one point, you gain some resilience against panic tests. Useful and cheap.

Also, if you get 3 warlocks, 15 jezzails and 3 ratlings, and have fear for getting the eye of the horned rat... well, I must be missing something... :p :angel:

If you were not going to change your list, ¿why bother posting it, anyway?