PDA

View Full Version : How many?(Bretonnians)



Seargent K
18-06-2009, 06:10
I 'm building a bretonnian army and I 'm not sure how many knights(of the realm) to include per unit.8,12 less or more?Thanks in advance.

slingersam
18-06-2009, 06:25
I personally think 9 is good because it allows you to lose one knight and still get full attacks. 12 is extra reinsurance.

Shield of Freedom
18-06-2009, 08:40
You don't want to make your knights unit too big, then it will attract too much magic/shooting attention. Too small, and a small number of these attacks will destroy the unit.

9 is perfect if you plan on 4 lances or less.

6 is good if you plan on 4 lances or more.

12 is too big, and you'll hardly fit in your deployment zone.

Good luck!

Seargent K
18-06-2009, 11:01
Thanks guys.I think 9 is good.

TacticalFirepower
18-06-2009, 14:19
9 man maximum, and remember not to take over 2 lances. 3+ heavy cavalry units is cheese, and not fun to play against.

Peril
18-06-2009, 14:57
I actually prefer 12. Yes they are long, but I have peasants to cover the flanks. The benefit is that you no longer have to double charge things. You will have 24 unit strength and full rank bonus.

and Mr. Firepower, I don't think you understand the Bretonnian army. You almost cannot help but take more than 2 lances.

willowdark
18-06-2009, 14:59
I think the entire intention of the Bretonnian army was to build mostly on Knights.

7 Lances is excessive. There is nothing wrong with 3, 4 or 5.

PurchasedPig
18-06-2009, 15:16
I think the entire intention of the Bretonnian army was to build mostly on Knights.

7 Lances is excessive. There is nothing wrong with 3, 4 or 5.

I would agree with this in every respect.

My Bret army has 2 lances at 9 strong and another 3 lances at 6 strong.

Incidentally I would also suggest Knights Errant over Knights of the Realm as their ability to negate psychological effects on the charge makes them invaluable against Vampires and Daemons (necessary in todays competitive gaming environment...) and they are cheaper. Plus Errantry banner is sheer awesomeness... Cheap Grail Knights anyone?

-PurchasedPig-

vinny t
18-06-2009, 16:10
I like the (MSU??) idea of using units of 6. You get +50% of the units and they are great for flanking. However if I plan to put a hero in a unit I'd go with 8(+hero).

Troah
18-06-2009, 17:17
Lately I've been doing 8+hero as my main charge unit with a small unit of 6 staying back ready for counter-charges.

willowdark
18-06-2009, 18:07
Would there be Pegasus Knights and Griffins in reality too?

Troah
18-06-2009, 18:08
Would there be Pegasus Knights and Griffins in reality too?

Ummm...of course?...duh!

willowdark
18-06-2009, 18:17
Sorry to side track the thread with sarcasm. ;) I should know better.

Voss
18-06-2009, 18:19
Honestly, probably 5+ or 8+ for the units that house characters. 6 or 9 otherwise. I wouldn't want more than 2 9 man units though, thats soaking up a lot of points, and there won't be too many enemies that need that extra weight.

willowdark
18-06-2009, 19:02
I'd run at least one character in an 8 strong knights errant unit with errantry banner. That's a solid character escort for a number of reasons. Then maybe one KotR at 8 strong for another character.

Grail Knights function just fine at 6 strong, or 5 with a damsel or even a paladin if you're feeling epic or romantic.

One unit of 9 KotR work on their own, not really for rank bonus but to soak up shooting if needs be. I'd want my BSB to be in a 9 man unit if only so that he preserves some SCR. If I have to have one i want that +1 CR to count, so I'd want to make it to combat with at least one full rank and as many attacks as possible.

A damsel would work here too to boost numbers and maybe preserve that second rank bonus, but I think a Damsel on foot is perfectly fine for a unit of archers. Even if you want a magic phase you'll need LoS for most of your spells anyway, so inside a Lance isn't really the best place for her.

greenmonsta
19-06-2009, 01:18
Well like it or not, 3+ lances is cheese. Two units of 9 is sufficient, then back then up with lots of peasants. In reality they'd be many more peasants than knights anyway.

Stop making this statement. Just because you are under the delusion that a Bretonnian army should be full of peasants and not knights doesn't mean you are right. Personally I don't play Bretonnians, but obviously knights are supposed to be the core of the army. Get over yourself and face reality.

TombKing101
19-06-2009, 05:03
Bretonnia is and has always been a knight army. There are peasants to fill out some certain roles, but the main point with the army is to break the enemy with charges from KNIGHTS. 3 units of knights is not cheese at all. Your list of 3-4 cannons, 2 steamtanks, war altar, lore of metal, and gunline against bretonnia is whats cheese!

Avian
19-06-2009, 11:09
I have removed quite a few trolling posts and replies to these. Please continue on topic.

- The Moderators

The_Dragon_Rising
19-06-2009, 15:59
Personally i use only one unit of KoTR and even then its a unit of 5. They sit back and shelter my prophetess (indeed that is a Bret list using magic), and will only charge when combined with another unit where they are sure to win.

In my list as a whole though this is not especially strange as I use MSU of knights (im a fan of KE) with peasant support who make up the numbers to my force.

jayzerus
19-06-2009, 17:53
My 2250 point army list consists of 2 units of Knights of the Realm, 4 units of Knights Errant, 1 unit of Grail Knights, 1 unit of Pegasus Knights, 1 unit of Yeoman, and 4 units of peasants.

That is 8 units of knights. Do I think that is cheesy? not really considering that the army consists of 10 core units, 2 specials and 1 rare.

Haven't yet had any complaints about the army, number of knights, etc. And considering that most of my battles have resulted in a draw, I would say that it is not an over-powering or cheesy list.

Peril
19-06-2009, 19:35
Here is my list. It is simple, historically based, and effective. The big lances are so that if I face VC or Demons I have plenty of rank bonus and unit strength to have staying power. Also, occasionally I get charged by a faster enemy - the ranks help there too. I have tons of peasants to guard flanks and be a thorn.

Characters - 406 (3)

Lord - Virtue of Confidence, Lance, Enchanted Shield, Barded Warhorse - 172
Paladin - Battle Standard, Virtue of Duty, Barded Warhorse - 104
Damsel - Dispel Scroll 2x, Horse - 130

Core - 1059 (102)

Knights of the Realm 11x - Full Command, Warbanner - 313
Knights Errant 11x - Full Command, Errantry Banner - 261
Men at Arms 25x - Standard, Musician - 140
Men at Arms 25x - Standard, Musician - 140
Bowmen 20x - Standard, Musician - 135
Bowmen 10x - Skirmish - 70

Special - 246 (15)

Mounted Yeomen 5x - Musician - 82
Mounted Yeomen 5x - Musician - 82
Mounted Yeomen 5x - Musician - 82

Rare - 538 (15)

Grail Knights 11x - Standard, Musician - 448
Trebuchet - 90

Total - 2249
PD - 3
DD - 3 (2 Scroll)
Models - 135

PARTYCHICORITA
20-06-2009, 04:25
12 GK are a waste of points IMO; 5-6 pack the enough punch, are easier to move around and draw less atention from the enemy.

TombKing101
20-06-2009, 07:37
I've been having loads of success with my grail knight unit 10 strong, with lord and bsb in the unit as well. Even when they are charged (ideally shouldn't happen but it does sometimes!) the enemy usually bounces right off. And no matter what you charge, you are almost guarenteed to win...but yes lots of points.

badgeraddict
20-06-2009, 13:12
I would only use one 8 man Lance of knights of the Realm, plus a character.

Lately I have been toying with a list that included;

2 units of 8 Knights Errant.
1 unit of *5* Knights of the Realm
1 unit of 8 Questing Knights
1 unit of 4 Pegasus Knights.

The rest of the list (2000) is made up of Peasants & Characters.

Lord Dan
20-06-2009, 17:56
What do you do with a unit of 4 KoTR, other than throw away?

EldarBishop
21-06-2009, 13:27
What do you do with a unit of 4 KoTR, other than throw away?

Forfeit the game.... 5 in the min unit size for KotR.

------

Back OT:

I tend to run (2) 9-man lances and (2-4) 6-man lances.


My last played list (which actually doesn't follow what I usually take) was something like this (2k):

8 Knights Errant + Damsel (Caddy)
7 Knights of the Realm + Lord, BSB
5 Knights of the Realm + Paladin
5 Questing Knights
5 Grail Knights
4 Pegasus Knights
5 Mtd Yeomen
5 Mtd Yeomen

badgeraddict
22-06-2009, 10:21
What do you do with a unit of 4 KoTR, other than throw away?

What I do is...add one extra knight to it, because it is a typo.

Seriously though I use the 5 man unit as a reserve unit, that can hit flanks et al.

They usually hang out with my peasant units, lending them their knightly leadership.

Billpete002
22-06-2009, 12:52
I would drop the Grail Knights, they are a point sink - you could take more Errant/KotR for the cost of GK.

Frankly I haven't heard "Bretonnians are cheesy" till this thread. Bretonnians are hardly a cheese fest army, I've played against them and with them and they generally struggle to win - especially to gun lines and wood elves.

just my $0.02

willowdark
22-06-2009, 13:15
Grail Knights are fantastic. They have 2 st6 attacks a piece, which are magical, and are ItP. Nothing else in the army does that.

The Questing Knights I would object to. In 7th ed. these guys are only st5 with GWs. That means that there is effectively _nothing_ these guys can do that KotR can't, for cheaper, except strike last in subsequent rounds of combat. With peg Knights and Fast Cav as specials I would never take these guys.

The models, however, are awesome. If I did a Bret army, which could be sooner rather than later, I'd use Questing Knights as my Knights Errant. I know Knights Errant are supposed to be young and "impetuous," but it's only a small stretch of the imagination that they'd be old, drunk knights instead. Gnarly old beer swillin' Warriors who've been in so many fights that they've lost all fear of death, and a little self control. Like Knights of Winterfell in G.R.R. Martin's books.

Billpete002
22-06-2009, 13:23
each to his own I suppose I prefer more bodies in my armies ;)

But I agree 100% on Questing Knights, they are junk at the moment.

Troah
22-06-2009, 15:55
each to his own I suppose I prefer more bodies in my armies ;)

But I agree 100% on Questing Knights, they are junk at the moment.

Sadly :cries:. They were my favorite unit in 6th.

Amlesh
22-06-2009, 16:34
I think 8 plus a Hero is a good size for KoTR. 6 or 9 is good for Knights Errant, while 6 or 5plus a character is good for Grail Knights. Don't take Questing Knights.

Peril
22-06-2009, 17:16
I use a big unit of Grail Knights so that when I do face Dwarves or Skaven SAD, I still have a few GKs left on turn 2. Also, I use them as a trump card. When someone throws down a deathstar unit, I introduce them to the GKs.

Originally I added the unit because of the SoC Nurgle Demon list. I couldnt handle the Cloud of Flies on the nurgle units (KotR and Errants would bound right off). So I upgraded my lances to 12 and switched out the QK for GK. I found the list to be 100% more effective against unbreakable armies.

Troah
22-06-2009, 17:42
I can't bring Grail Knights when I face my group. They know what the Knights can do so they focus all their fire/magic/combat on killing and/or immobilizing that unit. It's like the rest of my army disappears for them and it's only the Grail Knights. Matters not what size I bring, the people I play against cannot help but become subject to frenzy/hatred towards my holy knights.

Now as this may be a bad thing because they're a lot of points. I sometimes bring a small unit so the rest of my army can move around a little easier as the enemy concentrates fire on the Grails and ignores everything else.

ICLRK625
22-06-2009, 17:47
I can't bring Grail Knights when I face my group. They know what the Knights can do so they focus all their fire/magic/combat on killing and/or immobilizing that unit. It's like the rest of my army disappears for them and it's only the Grail Knights. Matters not what size I bring, the people I play against cannot help but become subject to frenzy/hatred towards my holy knights.

Now as this may be a bad thing because they're a lot of points. I sometimes bring a small unit so the rest of my army can move around a little easier as the enemy concentrates fire on the Grails and ignores everything else.

Hell, even if it's a big unit, they're stupid as hell if that's the only thing they shoot at (as in go out of their way to shoot it), just keep them in inconvinient spots, so that shooting them means repositioning everything else (their gunline or whatnot), or better yet, they won't be able to shoot them, and you can throw them in when you're ready.

Troah
22-06-2009, 17:50
Hell, even if it's a big unit, they're stupid as hell if that's the only thing they shoot at (as in go out of their way to shoot it), just keep them in inconvinient spots, so that shooting them means repositioning everything else (their gunline or whatnot), or better yet, they won't be able to shoot them, and you can throw them in when you're ready.

Yeah I do that but they always get one or two every round or so with either heavy magic or heavy shooting. Like I said though, I don't mind as long as the rest of my army can move almost freely.

badgeraddict
23-06-2009, 10:38
I seriously think people are dismissing Questing Knights purely because they do not get ST6 any longer.

You need to look at their other virtues. They still get the Blessing, they re-roll Psych tests. That alone makes them viable in 7th with all the Fear & Terror about. ST5 all the time, with a 3+ AS? That is pretty good in my book. I have great success with them.

But each to their own I guess.