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PeG
18-06-2009, 07:42
I am playing a game with 500p daemons against shooty HE in a few days and I have never played daemons before and not even read the entire book yet (not my models). Any advice regarding choice of models and tactics would be welcome.

Nicha11
18-06-2009, 08:31
Take a large unit of plague bearers with a herald, just march towards him and dominate.

PeG
18-06-2009, 11:09
seems a bit boring but I guess it might work. To mix things up a bit we are playing a 500 point mini tourny with random armies ie everyone gets to play an army from someone else in the group and I ended up with daemons that I have never played with before. I played against them a number of times but with WE (that usually gets killed really fast) and with skaven (better unless magic heavy daemons).

Nicha11
18-06-2009, 11:10
If you want you could take some flamers, move forward shoot and dominate....

Or some flesh hounds, run forward and dominate.....

Griffery
19-06-2009, 06:56
I am sorry but you most likely will lose. From my experience with Daemons, lots of shooting will easily kill you, considering you only have the 5+ ward save. I would suggest lots of Horrors so you can out magic him, but besides that I am not quite sure what to do at such low points.

Paz
19-06-2009, 07:18
Dear Griffery, stop talking bad about Daemons! Or even your 5+ WS wont save you.

PeG, are you playing border patrol?
anyway you go: herald of naked nurgle/tzeentch naked plaguebearers+horrors or 2x naked horrors + flamers as much as you can. GL

Go plagu+horror if you dont wont to let dice decide who's gonna win.

bryne3
22-06-2009, 09:18
I think ur stuffed soz mate

dsw1
22-06-2009, 12:42
Try seekers with the siren standard. Shove a herald in the unit too and give the herald the torment blade (which gives you an extra attack). Now, you'll be charging turn 2 (10" normal movement), they Can't stand and shoot when you charge (or flee) and you will kill quite a few elves with the amount sof attacks you have.

Enjoy :)

MarcoPollo
22-06-2009, 18:14
Take a Herald of slaanesh with siren song and torment blade (+1 Attack). Put him in a unit of seekers and you will be in their lines in two turns.

To beat shooting, you must use speed. I'm not sure on the core restrictions you have but I would prioritize my units like this.

1) seekers of slaanesh with siren banner (unit must hold when charged -- so no stand and shoot)
2) Herald of slaanesh on steed of slaanesh with siren song and torment blade. (use the siren song on his main unit of shooters so that they must either charge or flee -- thus taking away a turn of shooting).
3) Fiends of slaanesh -- fast hard(ish) hitting.
4) For core troops, either two min units of horrors to get off some magic and give you some magic defense (if you have to take two core units). If you only have to take one, then some bloodletters with the +d6 charge banner or some demonettes at M6 can get stuck into their lines pretty nicely.
5) furries (fly) to harrass your opponents lines ... they are core but not counted to your min core selection. So you might be able to argue them into your core slots given the low points value.

Tekomandor
23-06-2009, 05:17
Note: Take head Bryne3 of this thread, it will help you.
Apart form that I ahve one thing to say SPEED!

Talash
23-06-2009, 15:46
Take a Herald of Nurgle in a unit of Plaguebearers (No command) with the Staff of Nurgle if you can afford it. Boring, but youll win alot of the time.

Tekomandor
24-06-2009, 03:45
And why would you want to play like that?

PeG
24-06-2009, 06:37
No border patrol so I needed two core. Got shot up pretty bad but flamers did ok. Used a list of Daemonettes, horrors, 3 flamers and herald. Solid victory to HE. Rematch in a couple of weeks.

Memnos
24-06-2009, 08:45
Yep. He's right.

Herald of Nurgle with Plague Staff.

14 Plaguebearers.

10 Horrors.

On 500 points, you can even up a wizarding level there. The Plague Staff will essentially halve his units when they get off.

High Elf archery is not great.

EDIT: Here's some mathhammer for you. Assuming he has 30 archers and all of them can see and shoot you, and they're in close range, your Herald unit will be hit 20 times, wounded 6.66 times, 4.44 after ward saves, 2.22 after regenerate saves. For every 27 shots, 2 guys will die.

Then you charge and he dies. And you have much more magic. He will never ever get his points back with archery against your army.

PeG
24-06-2009, 08:56
He maxed out on boltthrowers and they did to a lot of damage against my list. If that was due to him being lucky or anything else I dont know.

MarcoPollo
24-06-2009, 17:08
Against gunline type armies, you need speed more than toughness. Here's why.

From a certain perspective, an increase in speed is like a ward save.

Consider:
1)M4 troops take at least 3 rounds of shooting before they travel the distance needed to charge a unit. Usually it is more like 4. If 25% casualties occur each round you take 1-(.75)^3 total casualties = 58% casualties (that's over half dead).
2)M6 troops take take atleast 2 rounds of shooting before they travel the distance. So, at 25% casualty rate your total casualties are 1-(.75)^2 or roughly 44% causalties. A difference of 18% saved which is similar to 6+ ward save.
3)M10 (fly or slaanesh) takes only one round of causalties or 25% a difference of 33% from the M4 troops equal to a 5+ wardsave.

The second main reason why you need more speed than toughness is because with speed, not only do you eliminate one or two more rounds of shooting, but you also eliminate the firing of the gunline for the rest of the game. If you don't get into the gunline until turn 4 then you only have 3 more turns to chew up his army. But if you get into his lines by turn 2 then you have 5 rounds of combat to chew him up.

Thirdly, slower armies can be out-manouvered and march blocked easier. So chances are that you might not even get to his lines before he shoots you to ineffective shreds.

Fourth, slower armies are better at attrition warfare. I love grinding skellies and zombies with my chosen wariors. But against shooters, once they get to the lines, you might not have the punch left to break a gunline.

Slaanesh demons are designed to crush gunline armies. With siren song and siren banner, you eliminate alot of the problems that gunlines pose. You take away shooting rounds, and you force him to charge you (remember your HoS will give a locus of striking first to any demonettes -- including mounted ones).

Plus moving is more fun than removing casualties.

bryne3
25-06-2009, 09:48
meh, told you so!