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View Full Version : Couple of quick WoC questions some rules and some comp - am i missing something?



nick_robinsonchia
18-06-2009, 18:32
Any repsonses much appreciated.

Rules

1. Cant see it written anywhere that eh BSB cannot be the army general... is this correct?
2. Cant see anywhere where it says a chracter with 'x' mark cannot join a unit with a different mark.
3. Do unit champions count as characters for eye of the gods rolls? (guessing no...)

Comp

1. Are all mounted lists frowned on in tournaments? Specifically khornate theme + oracle (caddy), so no magic, not maxed knight units, no lords, or rares...

2. How many units of chaos knights before most opponents want to hang you? Again with specifics above.



Cheers

N

stripsteak
18-06-2009, 18:52
1. Cant see it written anywhere that eh BSB cannot be the army general... is this correct?
2. Cant see anywhere where it says a chracter with 'x' mark cannot join a unit with a different mark.
3. Do unit champions count as characters for eye of the gods rolls? (guessing no...)


1: No this was fixed in the WoC errata BSB can not be your general
2: yes different marked heroes can lead units now. riding a chariot is the only mark restricted combination.
3: no killing a champion does not allow an eye of the gods roll (WoC faq)

nick_robinsonchia
18-06-2009, 19:00
Great thankyou very much!

regards

N

Drachen_Jager
18-06-2009, 21:41
Comp:

1) Many tourney WoC lists are mostly/all mounted. I think the general consensus is that a Khornate cavalry force with just a caddy is 'softer' than a Tzeench Sorcerer Lord (or Villitch) with 2-3 Nurgle Sorcerers. If you don't go with the magic heavy WoC then lots of Heavy Cavalry is the only other build that stands a good chance of doing well at a tourney.

2) In a 2000-2999 pt game 5 units of Knights is frowned upon by almost everyone. Under 2k more than 3 units of Knights will get you dirty looks (at the least). ;)

Most of my opponents find my 4x6 knights and lots of doggies army perfectly fine.

kramplarv
18-06-2009, 22:22
OR...

Drachen_jager:

I use a 2250 pts WoC with ONE unit of knights... and two blocks of warriors. :) It might be harder to use, but it sure kicks bottoms! :)

nosferatu1001
18-06-2009, 22:38
5 units of knights at 2K? Given they're special quite a few people would have problems with it, as you're only allowed 4 until you get to 3K.....

My friend has NO knights, just 3 blocks of marauders, one block of warriors and a lovely stubborn BSB....and 2 sorcerors kicking out 8PD.

Isabel
19-06-2009, 05:29
Comp

1. Are all mounted lists frowned on in tournaments? Specifically khornate theme + oracle (caddy), so no magic, not maxed knight units, no lords, or rares...

2. How many units of chaos knights before most opponents want to hang you? Again with specifics above.




I've been to several tournies since the WoC book came out and there pretty much isnt a list that we can come up with that is actually frowned upon. I use infantry lists in friendly games and all cavalry, magic heavy lists in tournies and it is seen as standard and expected. If you were to take a khorne themed army with little to no magic, it would most likely be comped well and seen as a bit friendly.

As far as people getting angry about the number of knights. Most people realize they are our bread and butter and accept the challenge. There's always going to be a few people who complain but that's just how it goes.

TroyJPerez
19-06-2009, 06:25
Why do people complain about warriors of chaos knights, when Empire knights are just as bad. They might not hit as hard and only have 1 attack, but they are core! And cheap enough to make ranks with. I wish we had some Cheap non special units of knights that we could rank and file.

kramplarv
19-06-2009, 09:30
nah.

chaos knights are so much better than Empire Knights that it's not even funny to compare... And not even Empire knights are cheap enough to make ranks.

And in addition, If you want cheap non special cavalry.. Load your Marauders with Full command and full armor options. Then they are your cheap knight...

jaxom
19-06-2009, 19:13
Why do people complain about warriors of chaos knights, when Empire knights are just as bad. They might not hit as hard and only have 1 attack, but they are core! And cheap enough to make ranks with. I wish we had some Cheap non special units of knights that we could rank and file.

Because a unit of frenzied knights is at a bare minimum 15 WS5 S5 attacks and usually more *plus* 10 more WS4 S4 attacks? A unit that doesn't bat an eye before charging a ranked block of spears usually scares people. Same reason people fear Bloodknights which are both more expensive and a Rare slot.

Besides, the typical attitude now is that "everybody has life better than I do" so the Knights, being one of the most cost effective and scary units in the list, are most likely to be the target of complaints. I mean... You'd mock them out of the room if they felt the need to complain and chose to complain about Forsaken instead.


For comparison, by the way, take those Empire Knights and run them at a ranked unit of standard infantry from most lists. They do ok on the charge but still probably lose CR and break and run. Chaos Knights usually win combat against ranked non-elite infantry unless they have been set up as a trap with characters and banners. They give elite infantry from some lists a run for their money. That's why Chaos Knights (and Bloodknights) get complaints and Empire Knights don't.

Isabel
19-06-2009, 20:24
Since we're on the topic, at my most recent tourney a unit of flagellants managed to hold up one of my knights for 2 rounds (amazingly). This gave his knights enough time to flank me... and bounce right off. I finished off the flagellants and ran down his knights. Empire knights deserve to be core.

TroyJPerez
20-06-2009, 08:54
I have bad experiences with empires knights. In a few games I have played I have faced a unit of 5x4 with warbanner and BSB. So my unit of chaos knights have to overcome static combat resolution of 7 to win. Usually they barely scratch the 1 + armour save and usually break and run. I'm not saying chaos knights suck, but without a banner of the gods or something they don't faire very well against rank and file troops.

Milgram
20-06-2009, 09:41
uhm... 5x4 imp knights? what's that? some ~600 points of knights + 150 points of BSB? I bet your ~250 point chaos knights had some problems against the imps! :D

TroyJPerez
20-06-2009, 19:12
Yeah I tend to not face normal knights, I face knight deathstars, lol.

Levett
21-06-2009, 22:10
Knight deathstars love Lore of Metal............................................. ..... not!

Drachen_Jager
22-06-2009, 18:04
Take a Khorne character with an aethersword next time you face that guy TroyJPerez, watch him wince as you hit on 3s and wound on 2s with no armour save!

A unit of 6 Khorne Knights with a Juggernaut mounted hero swinging an Aethersword is still cheaper than the Empire Knights and should stand a good chance of winning if they get the charge. Take a Warbanner and a musician yourself and if you get the charge in you're almost certain to win. Your unit would still only cost about 550 to his 750.

Or better yet, send him chasing 30 point units of hounds all game until you can flank charge him.

jaxom
22-06-2009, 18:26
The only issue with the Khorne/Jugger character is challenges. You'd have to look at things closely before you made the choice. You're still odds to wipe the front rank on the initial charge and your character (or champion) must challenge which means into his champ or BSB. You should smash the BSB regardless but make sure you get enough Overkill to cover the CR gap.

(This *should* be a no-brainer given he'll lose the BSB point as well when you win the challenge, but it bears just a few brain-cells to confirm before you do it.)