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Saviour
20-06-2009, 08:57
I've been looking to make a very strong & intimidating Empire army lately but it comes down to either massed blocks of infantry (which will look good but not do a whole lot) or the Waltar/Stank with snippets of an army to accompany them. And although Empire are a fun army to collect, it just seems difficult to win with them against competent opponents.

I'd like to know, at 2250pts, what everyone out there would see arrayed against them & think "Oh damn, this is gonna be hard" when facing an Empire Army. Money isn't an issue so I'm curious to see what you guys can come up with.

dsw1
20-06-2009, 10:09
I've been looking to make a very strong & intimidating Empire army lately but it comes down to either massed blocks of infantry (which will look good but not do a whole lot) or the Waltar/Stank with snippets of an army to accompany them. And although Empire are a fun army to collect, it just seems difficult to win with them against competent opponents.

I'd like to know, at 2250pts, what everyone out there would see arrayed against them & think "Oh damn, this is gonna be hard" when facing an Empire Army. Money isn't an issue so I'm curious to see what you guys can come up with.

S'tank W'alter combo is one of the best combos out there. Most armies can't take down steam tanks without focusing everything they have onto said unit and can make the game some what un-fun for your opponent to play against. Saying this, if you are ina competitive environment then by all means go ahead.

The first list you mentioned "mass infantry" is a tad unpredictable when it comes to opponents, I've seen an empire army with roughly 200+ infantry models (2 units of 30 flaggies and 2 units of 20 Greatswords with detachments, along with mass swordsmen units and Men at arms detachments) and it had a mixed response against different enemies. All I can recall is don't play against WoC Khorne armies with mass infantry ;). While an Infantry army would be hard to use, it also brings for a very fun game were both sides are concerned, but isn't suggestible for a competitive gaming group.

Why not try using the W'alter with infantry and a few bits and bobs (cannons, Knights,wizards etc etc), one thing that is needed in Empire infantry is a BSB. While you wouldn't expect the empire Infantry to kill much, they thrive on Static combat resolution, so detachments are a big must for them. if you have the detachments 3 wide and 3 deep (10 guys, 1 guy left at the back) and put them in-between your infantry then they become harder to charge and getting a maximum of 5 guys in the flank (meaning if they kill 5 of your flankers anyway, you still ignore their rank bonuses).

I hope my post helped :)

Orthanus
20-06-2009, 14:50
Empire are one of the best magical armies. We have massive amounts of bound spells, access to all the lores, relatively cheap wizards but most of all the Rod of Power!!!

Don't neglect to take combat heros though. I like to take a Wizard Lord, and a Captain, Warrior Priest and a Bright Wizard, giving me 1.5 melee and 2.5 magic units. If you give the captain Casket of Sourcery then all your models have magical capabilities!

Always take Dawn Armour on mounted Warrior Priests, and take van horst spec on Arch Lectors because for a lord their stat-line is HORRIBLE!!!

Despite their blowing up all the time HBVG are a brilliant addition to any army as they frequently make back their points before their untimely explosion. There is also nothing more satisfying than getting a KABOOM misfire result as you desperately try to shoot at the 10 man squad of chaos knights.

Pistoliers are wonderfully good to use against slow, unwieldly units (like large infantry blocks and ofcourse work best against dwarves) as they block marching and can hassle the enemy. Do remember to keep them away from enemy shooting though, because that is the only real way an enemy can effectively kill pistoliers without inconvieniencing himself too much.

Our knights aren't chaos or brettonian standard but definitely pack a punch

Handgunners are exceptional against enemy infantry, whereas crossbowmen excell at dispatching enemy ranged units.

The ability to take a pegasus on a captain is something you should look to take advantage of.


That is all I can think of for the minuite

Caboose123
20-06-2009, 15:49
Hmmm, Empire aren't really a threathening army. They are humans, and everything is very terribly average... (Even their magic, sure they get all the lores, but generally race-specific lores are more powerful IMHO)

In my opinion its difficult to do a competetive empire list without Stanks and War Altar, but who cares about competetiveness anyways! :p

fubukii
20-06-2009, 17:56
well things that worry me about empire:

Steam tanks be it 1 or 2. ( i think 1 steam tank is fine in 2250)
Cannons (my dragons, hydras, greater daemons dont like these)
20+ handgunners/crossbowmen. ( i prefer 20 handguns 10 xbows personally)
swordsmen with detachments ( a solid unit not game breaking though, but most units will have to think twice to charge them.)
War altar ( nuff said)
lots of empire wizards.

Amlesh
20-06-2009, 22:32
A guy here in our area plays a list with the idea that the fewer chances he has to mess up, the better. This means nothing that can misfire and only one wizard. His list (approximately) is as follows:

- W'Altar w/ Van Horstman's Speculum and the Gorgon Shield (This is incredibly powerful-in challenges the enemy only get one attack)
- Warrior Priest x2, one with the Casket of Sorcery--deadly vs. VC if it steals IoN
- Wizard
- 3 units of 5 vanilla knights, musicians only
- Spearmen block, detachment of 9 Free Company ran 3x3
- Same as above only Swordsmen
- 2 units of Outriders, 1 unit of Pistoliers

His army is very powerful. The Outriders are definitely better than both Handgunners and Pistoliers, being able to perform both rolls. Having 4 Prayers per turn plus the bound Lore of Light spell (so 5 bounds total) is nasty.

My point: Nothing in the Empire looks nasty if you don't go the W'Altar + S'Tank route. However, combined, it can be pretty effective. The objective is to run with a balance of static combat resolution, shooting, magic and "heavy" hitters.

WodenMHC
21-06-2009, 01:13
I think, as it was mentioned above, that "Oh that's going to be hard to beat" can easily be accomplished with a balanced list.

Now, I may be in the minority, but I find "competitive" lists to be lists that are not "rock paper scissors" lists, but one's that are able to give a good account of themselves versus a large range of opponents. Thankfully, the Empire list can do this in spades as it is quite versatile.

Not only is the list versatile, but it practically requires versatile support and redundancy. You have Lord level "fighters" who barely fight on average with heroes of other lists, and your "elite" troops are WS4.

After my rambling, I think facing an Empire opponent, I would say "Oh that's going to be hard to beat" if I looked across the board after deployment and I found myself in a situation where any of the charges I was thinking of I had to rethink because the Empire player had deployed and chosen his units in complete support of one another.

As far as specifics go, I am a big fan of using the static combat resolution the Empire can field as a weapon in itself. Units of Swordsmen and detachments are a big deal, with a static combat res of 5 (banner, 3 ranks, outnumber) and the possibility of negating the enemies rank bonus while keeping a 4+ save to the front.

I find that heroes are best equipped and used solely as support to the units, as even the Templar Grand Master well-equipped for a fight (Sword of Power, Laurels of Victory) can be kicked around.

This turned a bit more into an all-around post, so I do apologize and will focus my thoughts a little better once I look through my Empire lists and the results of my battles.

Thanks for your time!

Slayerthane
22-06-2009, 13:43
Empire can made into a good magic offense or defense army depending on where you want to go with this and don't need to sacrifice the close combat phase for it.

For a magic offensive list, I've been toying with the idea of 2 Warrior priests, an Archlector with War Altar and a truthsayer. The warrior priests could each have a bound item. That's 8 bound items and 5 powerdice for the truthsayer. You would still get 8 dispel dice and +1 to dispel as well. I think empire lists are the only army that really benefits from a truthsayer.

For magic defense, you have items at least 3 different items that provide magic resistance of 3 or better.

Just some quick thoughts.