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roflcopter 9000
21-06-2009, 06:06
earlier today me and my friend played a 1000pt fantasy game. i was playing dark elves and he was playing wood elves. I have two questions about charging rules:

1. Can you march into close combat? if i could have got my cold ones into combat with his way watchers that would have made a huge difference.

2. Can you move, be within 2 inches, choose not to charge yet, shoot my corsairs to oblivion with way watchers before i get into close combat ( he says charging is part of close combat not movement phase so he can shoot first?), then come back and declare a charge with the moving units? this just did not seem fair.

oh and a random question- is regeneration just like a ward save? and if it is what is it? 3+?

Shadowfax
21-06-2009, 06:32
earlier today me and my friend played a 1000pt fantasy game. i was playing dark elves and he was playing wood elves. I have two questions about charging rules:

1. Can you march into close combat? if i could have got my cold ones into combat with his way watchers that would have made a huge difference.

2. Can you move, be within 2 inches, choose not to charge yet, shoot my corsairs to oblivion with way watchers before i get into close combat ( he says charging is part of close combat not movement phase so he can shoot first?), then come back and declare a charge with the moving units? this just did not seem fair.

oh and a random question- is regeneration just like a ward save? and if it is what is it? 3+?
I'm still a WFB rookie myself, but I think I can answer these. I play Wood Elves too, so that helps.

1) You cannot march into close combat. Charges come at the beginning of the movement phase. If you don't opt to charge at that point, you cannot later choose to charge when it's time to march units. However, marching and charging distances are usually identical, so if you had the range to march into him you theoretically would have been able to charge. But you would have had to have declared it at the start of your movement phase.

2) This sounds fishy. Was it his turn? If so, he is entitled to stop 2" away from your Corsairs and shoot you, but he absolutely cannot charge afterwards. He could have charged at the beginning of the movement phase, as outlined above, but he would not have been able to shoot in that turn. If it was your turn, and you were charging him, he would be able to stand and shoot with the Waywatchers as you charged him, but only if you were charging from more than half your maximum charge distance (so 5"+).

A regeneration save is pretty much like a ward save. It's 4+, not 3+. But I'm not sure if it comes in addition to other ward saves, or in lieu of them. A conservative reading of the rule would suggest that the regen save either replaces, or is supplanted by, any additional ward save that the model might have.

ARVO
21-06-2009, 06:33
Regeneration is an additional save that can be taken in addition to armor and ward saves. It works exactly like a 4+ ward save, except that it can not be taken against flaming attacks.

To question number 2 - No. What he did is wrong. The first thing you do in the movement phase is declare chargers. By the end of the movement phase you must move charging units. Therefore the waywatchers that were two inches away should have only been able to charge your corsairs, not shoot at them as well.

I don't realy understand what you mean by question 1. Are you asking if you can march and then declare a charge? If so, the answer is no. Charges are declared before march moves. Otherwise I don't see what you mean. A charge is double your movement so marching and charging move you the same distance...

WLBjork
21-06-2009, 06:58
Page 11 - the box-out details how the movement phase breaks down (answering Q2).

The box-out on page 12 deals with Q1.

Regeneration is explained on page 96. The second bullet point deals with Shadowfaxes confusion.

Milgram
21-06-2009, 09:40
2. Can you move, be within 2 inches, choose not to charge yet, shoot my corsairs to oblivion with way watchers before i get into close combat ( he says charging is part of close combat not movement phase so he can shoot first?), then come back and declare a charge with the moving units? this just did not seem fair.

that is 40k. though there are some similarities between fantasy and 40k, the game systems differ completely.

Ultimate Life Form
21-06-2009, 09:49
Well, when charging, a unit basically MAKES a march move in that it moves up to twice its M value. Don't know what could be meant otherwise except getting into close combat without declaring a charge first which is illegal or marching first, then charging (Mx4) which is even more illegal (if such a thing exists).

tarrasque
21-06-2009, 10:31
Well, when charging, a unit basically MAKES a march move in that it moves up to twice its M value. Don't know what could be meant otherwise except getting into close combat without declaring a charge first which is illegal or marching first, then charging (Mx4) which is even more illegal (if such a thing exists).
i think the q is actually about los and that he marched his unit in the enemy that was for example in his flank.

but to answer that q you can come to cc in 3 ways i can think of. at the start of you movement face by declaring a charge. (if you don't declare a char you can not move in cc). make use of movement spells like the tomb kings do. or special rules that let units come on the battle field at any spot.

Milgram
21-06-2009, 16:24
but to answer that q you can come to cc in 3 ways i can think of. at the start of you movement face by declaring a charge. (if you don't declare a char you can not move in cc). make use of movement spells like the tomb kings do. or special rules that let units come on the battle field at any spot.

and compulsory movement (including stupidity)
and overrun
and pursuit into new enemy
and redirect the charge
and waaagh (which is not a compulsory movement)
and about 10 other ways I have just forgotten :)

roflcopter 9000
22-06-2009, 01:01
Ok so instead of marching 14 with my cold ones, i could have charged 14 and made it?
(I am new and didnt realize that charging gave you extra distance)

2. Sorry i didnt make this clear. he moved with eternal guard, was 2 inches away from my corsairs, went onto shooting phase and pwnd me with a unit of way watchers, then went back and decided to charge me with the eternal guard.

Falkman
22-06-2009, 02:18
2. Sorry i didnt make this clear. he moved with eternal guard, was 2 inches away from my corsairs, went onto shooting phase and pwnd me with a unit of way watchers, then went back and decided to charge me with the eternal guard.
And that is illegal.
Declaring and moving charges are both done in the movement phase, way before shooting.

Milgram
22-06-2009, 09:18
fantasy (basic, as shown on the very first pages of the rulebook):

1) movement (declaring charges, compulsory moves, charge moves, other movements)
2) magic (may include movements due to spells)
3) shooting (no movements here besides fleeing and some very rare special abilities)
4) close combat (normally the only movements here are due to flee/pursuit moves)


40k:

1) movement
2) shooting (includes movement for sprint)
3) close combat (includes charge moves)