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Craz
21-06-2009, 19:03
So, I'm working up a 2k list for those sissy T3 elves. I've worked out what I want for the basis of the army so far;

Heroes:
140-Korhil
175-High Elf lv. 2 Mage w/ annullian crystal
145-High elf lvl 2 mage w/ jewel of the dusk

Core:
205-20 spearmen with full command
220-20 spearmen with full command and the lion standard

Special:
255-15 White Lions with full command
255-15 White Lions with full command

Rare:
200-2x Repeater Bolt Throwers

This comes out to 1595. I'd like to hear what people's opinions are for the other 405 points. Keep in mind I want to keep the 'woodsmen' theme a little bit, so I plan on no heavy cav and no Swordsmen.

WhiteKnight
21-06-2009, 20:53
Well Reavers and Lion Chariots could work with this. I'd say add 2 eagles, 2 lion chariots and then add a 25 point magic item or a banner somewhere. Maybe the Lion Standard on a unit of white lions. Thats exactly 2k and it'll hit pretty hard.

Craz
21-06-2009, 22:12
How big of a Reaver unit works? Also, should I tool it up with any bonuses?

GenerationTerrorist
22-06-2009, 01:16
I used to run 2 units of Reavers with Bows and Musician. Came in at about 115-ish pts for each unit, and they were very effective for flanking/harrasing and being a general pain in the ****.

As WhiteKnight says, get a pair of Lion Chariots (to fit in with the Chracian theme!) because they are pretty nasty.

I'd also drop one of the units of Spearmen and replace it with 2 units of 10 Archers (no command) if possible, just to give you some extra shooting. If you don't want to drop the Spearmen, then try to take atleast one unit of Archers anyway if you have the points spare.

Craz
22-06-2009, 01:44
I've used archers before, and I never seem to find a use for them. Even with twenty shots, Archers don't have any way to really pack a punch. I can't ever really get them to make up points.

Lord Hurin
22-06-2009, 03:56
I've used archers before, and I never seem to find a use for them. Even with twenty shots, Archers don't have any way to really pack a punch. I can't ever really get them to make up points.


They don't necessarily need to kill X number of points worth of enemy models to be a valued addition. Take a look at them in regards to the rest of your army. They may do little physical damage, but be a psychological deterrent. They may pick off a few enemy models, but make it easier for your other troops to finish off the unit.

You need to think in terms of synergy. There are very few units in the game that work amazingly on their own and very few that simply aren't worth taking. It all depends on what else is in your force.

Craz
22-06-2009, 04:37
I am aware of the idea of using ranged units to deter attention, but for less points, those repeater bolt throwers can do the same job. It's been my experience that unless something's s4 armo(u)r-piercing, it won't attract too much attention. Or at least, that's been my experience in my club. Unless I'm running a gun-line(I used to run a Dwarven gunline), I find non-warmachine ranged nits a little hard to work with.

Johan Chill
22-06-2009, 16:10
My notes mainly concern theme; but, for what they're worth, here they are:


So, I'm working up a 2k list for those sissy T3 elves. I've worked out what I want for the basis of the army so far;

Heroes:
140-Korhil
175-High Elf lv. 2 Mage w/ annullian crystal
145-High elf lvl 2 mage w/ jewel of the dusk

Seems fine to me. The only problem from a tactical perspective s that you haven't committed one way or another to strong or defensive magic. This is generally seen as a weakness in a list.

Core:
205-20 spearmen with full command
220-20 spearmen with full command and the lion standard

Why not make this in to two units of archers? It fits the "hunter" theme more than ranked soldiers in my opinion. Just a thought.

Special:
255-15 White Lions with full command
255-15 White Lions with full command

Trying to fit a third unit in would be nice and strongly represent your theme. I suggest dropping a mage and reducing your core to 2x10 archers to help accomplish it.

Rare:
200-2x Repeater Bolt Throwers

These have got to go thematically. I don't see White Lions lugging around War Machines, do you? Also, you have no Lion Chariots?! Drop these for the chariots and your army will be more reliably hard-hitting. Also, it will look much more impressive and unique.
This comes out to 1595. I'd like to hear what people's opinions are for the other 405 points. Keep in mind I want to keep the 'woodsmen' theme a little bit, so I plan on no heavy cav and no Swordsmen.

Hope I've given some food for thought. :cool:

Craz
22-06-2009, 17:04
So, I've constructed a slightly new list.
Characters:
140-Korhil(140)
135-Mage(100), Level 2(35)
175-Mage(100), Level 2(35), Annulian Crystal(40)

Core:
230-20x Spearmen (180) w/ Full Command(25)
205-20x Spearmen (180) w/ Full Command(25)

Special
270-15 White Lions(225), Full Command(30), Lion Standard(25)
255-15 White Lions(225), Full Command(30), Banner of Arcane Protection(25)
140-Lion Chariot
140-Lion Chariot

Rare:
200-2 x Repeater Bolt Thrower
100-2x Great Eagle

Korhil goes into one of the White Lion units while the two mages stick with the spearmen. The spearmen here either act as bait or support charges, depending on how the situation rolls. The Lion Chariots are there to either support the White Lions or make side charges when necessary. As for the White Lions, they get to play hammer to the anvil of the spearmen.

The repeater bolt throwers are there to smack down flankers and light units that I might find an unreasonable fear of, while the eagles are there to go war machine-hunting and to be a general nuisance. Now, Spearmen don't fit Chrace as much as I would like them, but I find them to adequately represent new(ish) recruits into the warhost.

tartarus
22-06-2009, 17:12
2x10 man units of archers mount korhil on a chariot he becomes horrendous then espiecially combined with a multipul charge from the other rock hard units in your army:). Johan Chill is right lose the bolt throwers (not too fluffy) and add more chariots!

tartarus
22-06-2009, 17:13
2x10 man units of archers mount korhil on a chariot he becomes horrendous (in a good way) then espiecially combined with a multipul charge from the other rock hard units in your army:). Johan Chill is right lose the bolt throwers (not too fluffy) and add more chariots!

tartarus
22-06-2009, 17:14
2x10 man units of archers mount korhil on a chariot he becomes horrendous (in a good way) then espiecially combined with a multipul charge from the other rock hard units in your army:D .Johan Chill is right lose the bolt (Not very fluffy) throwers and add more chariots!

Johan Chill
23-06-2009, 02:38
Have you thought about Ellyrian Reavers to protect your flanks? They're arguably more useful to. Importantly, however, they fit your theme. Also, once again, I strongly suggest you reconsider your mages - either a scroll caddy or all out. That's warhammer 101.

Craz
23-06-2009, 03:58
I've never really taken dispel scrolls out for a try. Then again, I've played Dwarves for the majority of my Fantasy career. I'll play a few games, some with, some without, see what works.

Slayerthane
23-06-2009, 11:34
I've played with the idea of a Chrace list, and I think you're on the right track. The warbanner in one unit of White lions is a great Idea. Also lion standard or banner of ellyrion would be good with a unit of spearmen. You probably don't need more than 1 unit of spearmen as core because you'll have the 2 white lion units, so three units for any static CR. I would definitely go for 2 lion chariots and a couple eagles. I know people like taking RBTs but to be honest I don't think they fit the theme. I would probably try to squeeze in a unit of silver helms since I'm sure Chrace nobles still fight like all other nobles as knights, but that's probably a matter of opinion. Also another fighty character in a lion chariot would be fluffy and hit hard, able to negate ranks if charging in the flank or rear.

My suggestions which I think have already been suggested be can reiterate are get 2 lion chariots, a pair of eagles, some silver helms and either a mounted prince or a noble in a lion chariot.

I hope this helps. Glad to see a nicely themed army on here.

Flash Felix
23-06-2009, 11:46
I think your list looks excellent from a Chrace point of view. I think some of the other commentators are a bit quick to dismiss the Spears as 'not-Chracian'. Not every elf from Chrace kills lions in their spare time, and it's clear from the fluff in the High Elf Army Book that there are many regiments of Spears in Chrace. In fact, even in Chrace, I think you'd find that White Lions are a minority in the army. So, I think what you have looks good, and it's nice to see some Spears.

Regarding Reaver Knights, these would also be appropriate to a Chrace theme, as it's clear from the Army Book fluff that units of these are on constant patrol across the Outer Kingdoms. As Chrace borders Nagarythe, I imagine that they get lots of these patrols.

Cragspyder
23-06-2009, 18:11
The month High Elves were released White Dwarf printed a themed Chracian list.

Normally I take White Dwarf advice with a barrel of salt but the list did actually make sense, it was something like....

Archmage
Korhil
BSB Noble

14 White Lions with full command
15 White Lions with full command
19 spearmen with Banner of Ellyrion and full command
10 archers

3 Lion Chariots
2 Bolt Throwers

They may have had another special choice in there as well...

They made a mistake with the placement of the characters as they put Korhil with a Lion unit and the BSB with the Spears. The BSB will should be with the Lions as Stubborn LD 8 with rerolls is nearly unbreakable, and Korhil should be with the Spears to make them Stubborn as well. So you have 3 ASF Stubborn LD 8 blocks with BSB rerols supported by 3 hard hitting chariots.

Depending on your thoughts with magic and shooting you could drop the Archmage and Bolt Throwers, bump the Lion units up to 20 men (and I would prefer Spears at 25 man) and go from there. However I do think the BSB with an army of mostly Stubborn units is a huge help.

So, combining the two lists you could have:

Korhil
BSB Noble
Mage
Mage

19 White Lions with Full command
20 White Lions with Full command
24 Spearmen with Banner of Ellyrion
10 Archers

3 X Lion Chariot

And then just add Reavers, Silver Helms, Eagles and/or Bolt Throwers from there.

Hope that helps!

Flash Felix
23-06-2009, 21:52
Just one question. Why would an Army of Chrace have the Banner of Ellyrion?

If you don't care too much about fluff, then it shouldn't be a problem. But if you do, then having an army from one kingdom with the flag from another is an issue. Kind of like the Scots Guards marching into battle with the colours from the Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

Mind you, the prevelance of Black Guards of Naggarond with the Standard of Hag Graef means that this doesn't mean much to many. Maybe they have these names because that's where they're manufactured. Sort of a 'Made In......' label.

Hag Graef; primary exports are weapons, Cold Ones and ASF banners.

Slayerthane
24-06-2009, 09:57
I think you would have spearmen with Banner of Ellyrion more for the ability to move through difficult terrain. For me it would be in theme for all Chracians to have the Woodsmen special rule which the Banner gives whether they are White Lions or Spearmen or even Silver Helms. So from a theme standpoint I think it works.

Cragspyder
26-06-2009, 01:22
What Slayerthane said, but you have an excellent point in that the banner isnt actually from Chrace :)

Lord of Nonsensical Crap
26-06-2009, 02:18
Looking at this topic, I'd have to ask, what would be better for a Chrace list? Reavers, or Dragon Princes (modelld as Lion Riders)?

I agree with the previous posts in that the Banner of Ellyrion works for representing an actual woodsmen rule for the Spears.

Flash Felix
26-06-2009, 09:28
Well, Reavers work better from a fluff point of view. "Lion Princes" would be more effective at hammering the enemy of course.

I agree that the Banner of Ellyrion would be perfect for a Chrace army, apart from the niggling little thing about it being the flag for a completely seperate kingdom. But if you call it the "Banner of Chrace" it could work, in the same way as the Lion Princes; recognising that GW has made some mistakes with the background fluff for some of the units and magic items (ie, making them kingdom-specific) and that renaming them widens their application for those of us who like fluff (like Craz here).

Craz
02-07-2009, 19:57
Okay, so, I played a variant of the list(2k points still) against the new Lizardmen, though they've been out for a while now so are they still new?

Characters:
Korhil(Army General)
Level 2 mage with Annullian Crystal
Level 2 Mage with Jewel of the Dusk and Silver Wand
Level 2 Mage

Core:
15 Spearmen with Banner of Ellyrion(representing woodsmen), Full Command. Wizard with no magic items goes with this unit
15 Spearmen with Full Command. Wizard with Anullian Crystal goes with this unit.

Special:
15 White Lions w/ full Command and Banner of the Lion. Korhil sticks around here.
15 White Lions w/ Full Command
2 Lion Chariots
7 Shadow Warriors(representing what I'm calling "Masters of the Hunt")

Rare
2x Repeater Bolt Throwers. The mage with the Jewel of the Dusk and Silver Wand ends up here.

So, if I do say myself, this list kicked butt. I massacred the army. By the end of the game, he only had a Stegadon and one skink chief left on the board,l while I still had a thousand points left or so. To help things along, he was a cheating whiny jerk with a foul mouth who I've been looking to destroy for a while. *pats models* Good boys.

coldblooded
02-07-2009, 20:25
I reckon the banner is a great idea the name of it shouldnt matter its the rules it provides u that count, I was thinkin maybe u should role wit some dps yes i know they arnt to theme bt if u give them the banner of ellyrian so they r mobile and have a unit of bout 6 strong and convert them to be mounted on war lions they can act as ur fast mobile heavy cav which i reckon would suit theme real well. other than that u should def get aleast 1 nit of reaver knights to protect ur flanks and provide rear charges where need be, well i hope that helps

Lord Hurin
03-07-2009, 00:12
So, if I do say myself, this list kicked butt. I massacred the army. By the end of the game, he only had a Stegadon and one skink chief left on the board,l while I still had a thousand points left or so. To help things along, he was a cheating whiny jerk with a foul mouth who I've been looking to destroy for a while. *pats models* Good boys.

Heheh, gotta love that eh? Cograts on the win!

Craz
03-07-2009, 01:12
I've tried Dragon Princes before, coldblooded, and I didn't think that much of them. Cavalry in general, actually, just isn't my style.

grhino
10-07-2009, 11:00
Like the list. Need to add 15 white lions to my own army, so that I can build it as well! But then, I also want to add 15 more swordmasters, some 20 archers and an additional 15 spearmen... at least.

feintstar
15-07-2009, 07:01
Speaking of Banners oif Ellyrion, here's a bizarre little combo which might give an enemy a headache surprise

Put a BSB with a GW and a banner of Ellyrion on a Lion Chariot :D

I beat a TK army the other week by tagging a unit of Spears and a unit of WLs just in front a forest and forcing them to charge and falling back... wiped out 2 units of chariots. Just thinking of baiting the reverse... And besides, with that many WLs, it makes sense to have a Bannerbearer hanging in the woods with them...

Lord of Nonsensical Crap
16-07-2009, 01:58
Speaking of Banners oif Ellyrion, here's a bizarre little combo which might give an enemy a headache surprise

Put a BSB with a GW and a banner of Ellyrion on a Lion Chariot :D

I beat a TK army the other week by tagging a unit of Spears and a unit of WLs just in front a forest and forcing them to charge and falling back... wiped out 2 units of chariots. Just thinking of baiting the reverse... And besides, with that many WLs, it makes sense to have a Bannerbearer hanging in the woods with them...

Um...you can't do that. The only character who can mount a Lion Chariot is Korhil.

Cragspyder
18-07-2009, 21:21
Correct, normal charactes (which you need to get a BSB that can carry the Banner of Ellyrion) can go into Tiranoc Chariots only.

Plus, it is up in the air whether or not this combo actually works, though I suppose "Treats difficult terrain as open terrain for the purposes of movement" could result in letting the chariot ignore the d6 S6 impact hits for moving through difficult terrain...

Not sure if it works or not but it is a neat idea.

Also, to Craz:

I still recommend putting Korhil with a Spearman unit to give you another Stubborn block, but I am glad it worked out for you!

KorhilLionHeart
06-08-2009, 17:23
Congrats Craz on your epic win over the lizardmen. Sorry to be crashing your question, but I've been reading all the comments, especially the one about you demolishing the lizardmen and was wondering how people think a Chracian army would do against dwarves?