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ARVO
22-06-2009, 18:30
Hey guys. I need some help here. I want to start an army of fallen angels. Their story would be that they are a group who got flunf into the 41st millenium when Caliban was destroyed. They are disgusted with what the imperium has become, but are still loyal to the emperor and believe that pulling the plug on the golden throne, he will be able to die, ressurect again and renew the crusade to save the imperium.

My question is what codex and model range I should use. I was considering chaos marines because they would not adhere to the regimented standards of loyalsit marines. On the other hand, I would not be able to take any demonic icons (to stay consistant with the army's backstory.)

So then I thought about the dark angels codex. But then I don't know how I would justify taking deathwing and ravenwing. (They hunt the fallen.)

Any ideas?

Amareo Davion
22-06-2009, 18:39
Well use Cypher as HQ, and use ravenwing and deathwing if you want but paint them pre-heresy colours(Black).

Mannimarco
22-06-2009, 19:15
im not sure the last time the fallen turned up in anything close to army level

for a neat twist (and it fits cyphers M.O) get the siege of vraks, take traitor guard as your troops and heavies and "fallen angels" as your elites, its meant to be alpha legion but these guys would work

Vedar
22-06-2009, 19:28
(Angels of Darkness novel spoiler below)









(I mean it you have been warned...)











In Angels of Darkness the fallen outsmarted an outpost of Dark Angels and stole geneseed. Cypher was part of that. While probably only half a dozen pulled off the hiest they now can create more. I like the Idea of the fallen and think GW should do more with them. We need the return of Cypher.

ARVO
24-06-2009, 00:19
That novel is actually what inspired me. I love the concept of good guys outside of the imperial justice system. I realzie they don't show up in great numbers but I thought it would be cool to paint up a little story of how a few of them managed to band together and create a small warband. Heavy on terminators, etc... I'm leaning towards the dark angeks codex...

Petay1985
24-06-2009, 10:03
I love the idea of doing some fallen angels, despite them not quite fitting in with exisitng fluff.

A small contingent would be quality, i too have given this consideration, i think i would base them around the Chaos codex, give them no marks. And just keep them as a nice simple force. (not sure on the use of terminators myself).

The Seige of Vraks renegade list would be a nice touch, it would certainly fit the fluff alot better.

I would say if you are looking to make a tactically competative army just use the Marine codex.

ashc
24-06-2009, 10:37
4 Options:

Codex: Space Marines.
Codex: Dark Angels
Siege of Vrakks Renegade List
Codex: Chaos Space Marines

Of that list I would say use Vrakks or CSMs. The Vrakks list plays similar to a guard army, except with Elite support from units of Chaos Space Marines and a nice HQ choice (If you have the rules for Cypher also, perhaps friends would allow you to use him).

The CSMs in my opinion are the best option if you 'just' want marines. The Fallen are pre-heresy based and do not adhere to any company structure or codex base, which is where Codex: SMs and DAs will let you down. Limit yourself by not taking daemonic units and upgrades, and you can have the most customisable, rag-tag force of Fallen out of the options present.

Ash

bossfearless
24-06-2009, 10:49
Hey guys. I need some help here. I want to start an army of fallen angels. Their story would be that they are a group who got flunf into the 41st millenium when Caliban was destroyed. They are disgusted with what the imperium has become, but are still loyal to the emperor and believe that pulling the plug on the golden throne, he will be able to die, ressurect again and renew the crusade to save the imperium.

My question is what codex and model range I should use. I was considering chaos marines because they would not adhere to the regimented standards of loyalsit marines. On the other hand, I would not be able to take any demonic icons (to stay consistant with the army's backstory.)

So then I thought about the dark angels codex. But then I don't know how I would justify taking deathwing and ravenwing. (They hunt the fallen.)

Any ideas?

You can justify the use of Ravenwing and Deathwing by your basic premise. If they were all flung into the future at the time of Caliban's destruction, then the Death and Raven Wing members would be from a time before there ever was a decree to hunt the Fallen. Under that premise, the use of those units would be just fine.

I run a sort of renegade Crimson Fists army (story written up before the CFs actually got any fluff to speak of) with the same idea, that the Emperor needs to die in order to free him. With your backstory, have you ever considered the idea that the Golden Throne is actually leaching his power away rather than keeping him alive? The idea behind the Throne is that his soul needs to be weakened before he dies or else his will will overpower the Chaos Gods when he enters the Warp. So that plot device sets up a "race against time" to kill the Emperor before he's too far drained.

I can't recall the title of the book, but at some point several years ago I was thumbing through one of the 40k novels and at the end of the book there was a lone space marine (Dark Angel, I think) who was for some reason talking to a Lord of Change on a Daemon World. The LoC was basically manipulating him in some sense, and then it cut to some internal monologue on the daemon's part, where it mentioned the same concept: the Emperor had to be kept alive until the Imperium was destroyed and there weren't any worshippers left to empower him, otherwise when he died he'd force the Chaos Gods into a harmonius existence. Anyone out there know the title of that book?

Arkturas
24-06-2009, 12:01
Probably the one codex you can't really use is DA. Everything that has led to the current DA is due to events after the Fallen have gone (Mainly represented in rules by Fearless and Deathwing/Ravenwing units). The SM codex without some of the new toys is probably closer to representing the Fallen.

The Fallen don't really exist in enough numbers for a complete army but are known to ally themselves with other rogue marines. The best option would be to go for a Marine Corsair type force with a single Fallen unit and/or Fallen Leader leadng rogue marines/guard. So it depends on what you want, Vraks for Traitor Guard, CSM for old style marines and SM for newer corsair style marines.

Lord Xcapobl
24-06-2009, 12:10
I was thinking about this as well. My take was simple.

Use the Codex: Chaos Space Marines for the rule base. Just avoid daemonics and marks, or call the marks something different. There are many Space Marine implants that seem to do nothing nowadays, but might cause one of the 'marks' to work game-wise. Who knows what more powers those giant legends of ancient days might exhibit?
As for models, I intend to only use space marines of mark VI or earlier. No Mark VII or VIII power armor. I know this means I'd order a lot of older models, as the plastics boxes have very limited mk.VI parts.
Concerning coloring, I'd use mainly black, as the Dark Angels were depicted as dressed in black power armor at the time of Rogue Trader (Yep, I'm a hobby veteran going that far back).

The real interesting question would be, what about ancient vehicles no longer in service? back in thse days there were entire squadrons of jetbikes amongst the Adeptus Astartes and the Imperial Guard.
;)

ashc
24-06-2009, 12:44
Considering that the Chaos Space Marine legions (who are going to be far better organised than a band of renegades) and even the imperium itself no longer know how to maintain squads of jetbikes, I don't think the Fallen would have them either.

Ash

pookie
24-06-2009, 14:21
As for models, I intend to only use space marines of mark VI or earlier. No Mark VII or VIII power armor. I know this means I'd order a lot of older models, as the plastics boxes have very limited mk.VI parts.
Concerning coloring, I'd use mainly black, as the Dark Angels were depicted as dressed in black power armor at the time of Rogue Trader (Yep, I'm a hobby veteran going that far back).

Good Luck with this concept - seems a lot more of us are going this way, and in no part probably because we are 'Vets' that miss the RTB01 days, Good Luck in getting your bitz together, its taking me a loooong time, and im still miles from my Goal.

very intresting idea you have and i also would choose to use the CSM Dex, but stay away from Deamonic Things such as Daemon Weps, and even Icons.

CSM already get a slightly better LD and also have more weps than your average marine.

electricwolf
24-06-2009, 14:52
I am slowly trying to build a small fallen angels force myself using CSM models wiht all the chaos stuff filed off. I'm trying to use the old rhinos and the old predators also.

For my army i'm using the fluff where there are a secret team that all knowledge of have been hidden and only the watchers know. During the eye of terror era they came out of the warp where they have been fighting chaos for awhile( similar to 13th company). My group was a group of Dark Angels that Jonson left behind in case anything happened. During the Fall of Caliban they disabled the planets shields and defenses so that Jonson could land troops. Even though they were sucked into time and space like the other "fallen" they have remained loyal to Jonson. They now travel the warp and space seeking other loyal fallen and helping out the Dark Angels where they can.