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Welfstar
22-06-2009, 20:24
My 40k gaming group is starting to play some WFB, but we've been struggling to understand exactly how shields work.

The main rules are pretty confusing on this subject. At one point the book states that the +1 for using a shield does not apply when saving wounds caused by shooting, but then later in the book, an example is given where a unit equipped with shields gets +1 to their save when suffering wounds caused by shooting.

How do shields work when saving close combat, shooting, and magically-caused wounds? We're clueless.

Thanks in advance.

siphon101
22-06-2009, 20:29
My 40k gaming group is starting to play some WFB, but we've been struggling to understand exactly how shields work.

The main rules are pretty confusing on this subject. At one point the book states that the +1 for using a shield does not apply when saving wounds caused by shooting, but then later in the book, an example is given where a unit equipped with shields gets +1 to their save when suffering wounds caused by shooting.

How do shields work when saving close combat, shooting, and magically-caused wounds? We're clueless.

Thanks in advance.

OK, here's how it works. A shield will always give +1 to your armor save. So for example, if a character is wearing heavy armor (5+ save) and then a shield, the save will be 4+.

In addition to this, a shield will give an additional +1 save when the model:

1) is wielding a hand weapon
2) is attacked from the front
3) with a melee attack

In an instance when a character has heavy armor (5+) and a shield (+1), his save will be 4+, except when he is armed with a hand weapon, is attacked from the front, with a melee attack. In which case his save will be 3+. This is refered to commonly as the "parry bonus".

He will not gain the ADDITIONAL +1 save if he is 1) not holding a hand weapon (note, most magical weapons, even if they seem like they WOULD be hand weapons are not actually hand weapons. It has to explicitly say "hand weapon" in its description); 2) is attacked rrom the side or back, or; 3) is struck with something other than a melee attack (spell, range, etc).

So in short, a shield will always give a +1, it will also give an additional +1 if certain conditions are met. And again, keep in mind that the vast majority of magic weapons, even if they seem they would be hand weapons, are not (for example, say..sword of battle. You'd think it's a hand weapon based on the name, but it's not). The rules for magic weapons explicitly state that magic weapons DO NOT get the benefits of mundane weapons unless explicitly says so. The way that GW says that this is the case is they will give the weapon type in the item description. For example:

Biting blade
-1 to armor save

This is NOT a hand weapon and WILL NOT give a parry bonus. On the other hand:

Biting Blade
Hand weapon. -1 to armor save

will

Morglum5780
22-06-2009, 20:30
shields add +1 to your save at all times, other than when you are using a weapons in hand to hand combat that requires 2 hands. So if you had great weapons and a shield in your unit, you would benefit from the +1 save for shooting and magic, but if you choose to use the GW in combat, you cant use the shield and forgo the save.

on top of that there is the hand weapon and shield bonus, which states that if you are using a shield and a normal hand weapon (the free one every model gets) in hand to hand combat , you get an extra +1 to your save (but only while fighting models to your front, not flanks or rear).

nickdahkwik
22-06-2009, 21:47
i believe in the first response that not gaining a +1 to your armr sv when attacked by a spell is incorrect. you should get all your items (shields included) you pay for otherwise the only way to defend against a spell would require a "magic" shield and since not alot of army's get these for the exception of the enchanted shield which in this case most army's would only be able to have one on the battlefield at all times max this would not make sense. and defeat the purpose of shields entirely. all the other things in the 1st response were very correct and i even remembered some of that thank you for reminding an old player!!!!

nosferatu1001
22-06-2009, 22:14
Full stops and paragraphs are your friend ;)

The on foot +1 for hand weapon and shield is a bonus that ONLY applies in close combat. You only recieve +1 for normal shields against shooting, magic (unless specifies close combat, e.g. dark magic) and attacks not to the front, not with a hand weapon and [magic] shield or when mounted.

While you have paid for a shield, you pay for +1AS and sometimes for an additional +1

WLBjork
23-06-2009, 06:05
Just to reinforce nosferatu1001's point:

You only get the parry (additional +1 save in melee) when on foot.

siphon, that makes 4 points for future reference ;)

Urgat
23-06-2009, 08:56
i believe in the first response that not gaining a +1 to your armr sv when attacked by a spell is incorrect. you should get all your items (shields included) you pay for otherwise the only way to defend against a spell would require a "magic" shield and since not alot of army's get these for the exception of the enchanted shield which in this case most army's would only be able to have one on the battlefield at all times max this would not make sense. and defeat the purpose of shields entirely. all the other things in the 1st response were very correct and i even remembered some of that thank you for reminding an old player!!!!

He's saying you don't get the additional +1 from the parry bonus, so he's correct. Litteraly, he means "even if you have a hand weapon, you only get +1, not +2 from missile fires etc".

Gazak Blacktoof
23-06-2009, 13:14
not with a hand weapon and [magic] shield

Actually, you do get the parry bonus with a magic shield.

You get the parry bonus if using any shield and any hand weapon- if a magic armour specifies it is a shield and a magic weapon specifies it is a hand weapon then you can claim the bonus save using those items.

EDIT: There is no rule confirming this (though it might be in an FAQ) but there is no rule saying you cannot claim the bonus. Permission is given to claim the save on p. 56 and not rescinded at any point.

nosferatu1001
23-06-2009, 13:24
Gazak - I said you don't get the bonus when you are NOT using HW + any shield - meaning you do get it, double negative ;)

Necromancy Black
23-06-2009, 13:31
A
EDIT: There is no rule confirming this (though it might be in an FAQ) but there is no rule saying you cannot claim the bonus. Permission is given to claim the save on p. 56 and not rescinded at any point.

It's in the first warhammer BRB FAQ.

Gazak Blacktoof
23-06-2009, 13:38
Nosferatu, not the way I read it you didn't.


The on foot +1 for hand weapon and shield is a bonus that ONLY applies in close combat. You only recieve +1 for normal shields against shooting, magic (unless specifies close combat, e.g. dark magic) and attacks not to the front, not with a hand weapon and [magic] shield or when mounted.

...But maybe I've been out in the sun too long this morning- its a beautiful day in Suffolk.

Thanks Necromancy Black, I was sure it was in one or the other.

nosferatu1001
23-06-2009, 19:12
It's a beautiful day here in...reading :( not aqs nice as Suffolk!

It probably wasnt clear, I got it right the first time though :D