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Amnar
22-06-2009, 23:16
So I've been using these guys for the last few months. I painted up a sweet unit, and bring them in every list. I have them kitted out with two hand weapons, and either run them 5x3 or 6x3 sometimes with the Sea Serpent Standard, sometimes with champion and musician only.

I have yet to have them contribute anything useful to the fight. I can think of numerous occasions where I would have rather had warriors in the fight rather than corsairs, for the second rank fighting.

The only thing I have yet to try is the Cauldron of Blood, but that's planned ot be included in my 2,250 list. I already have all my core slots, am I just better off using executioners for the same points value? They're not cheap, and they can't even reliably kill T3 models in high enough numbers to justify their cost.

Is it time to give up on them?

Amlesh
23-06-2009, 03:38
Have you tried using Repeater Handbows? I've heard those are pretty effective.

Time of Madness
23-06-2009, 03:54
Your joking right? A second rank of S3 attacks is useless. The reason warriors are good is to use the hand weapons for a 4+ save and how much cheaper they are.

In saying that corsairs can be nasty if used properly. Corsairs with an assassin to thin the ranks can really be useless because of all the attacks. On top of that the slaver rule is handy when running down units.

Point for point though warriors are always going to be better.
Time of Madness

Amnar
23-06-2009, 04:09
Unfortunately I had already modeled my guys with two hand weapons, since it seemed so great on paper.

Everything is better with an assassin, but unfortunately it significantly increases the cost of the unit. It's a shame that the warriors models are so weak at the moment :(

riotknight
23-06-2009, 07:25
Rank'em up, call'em warriors. I've heard of worse ideas.

Cousteau
23-06-2009, 08:35
Corsairs are a great unit, especially with the Cauldron of Blood for Killing Blow. Keep trying.

I find a 7x2 formation with the Sea Serpent Standard to be great.

Wednesday Friday Addams
23-06-2009, 08:37
You really don't need to make a "efficient tournament list" all the time.

willowdark
23-06-2009, 13:10
Have you considered MSU corsairs? 3 units of 10 with no command, maybe a musician but definitely no standard. 2 units to bait and flee and 1 unit to grab the flank with another strong unit like Warriors or Black Guard to the front. They don't really need to kill anything if they're breaking ranks and lending the Slavers rule to critical combats.

You have a lot of options. If you do in fact plan to use a CoB, then 7 wide with the Frenzy banner will be excellent. Remember, Frenzied units are ItP, so you can screen them with RxBs and then flee and counter charge without the fear of panic.

Or, get yourself some new corsairs and go RhB. A screen with them gives you the advantage of a 1st turn march since everything will be out of range, then you can get 1 round of shooting _and_ the S&S without any penalties. This will work better though with an Assassin in the unit for ASF because a S&S reaction will most likely lead to your RhBs being broken and the enemy pursuing into you. The unit + Cauldron + Assassin is a lot of points, but it will work if you make it. But Frenzy with an Assassin without a Cauldron will work too.

Either way, 14 Corsairs with Frenzy and an Assassin can be a great unit, but they're doing something that Warriors aren't. They're killing things. Ranked Corsairs for the purpose of SCR will just fall short when compared to Warriors. Warriors are just better.

Frenzy + Assassin is a huge investment, not just in points but in tactics as well. A large cross section of your army will become just a delivery system for this unit. That's not so bad, I went through thesame thing with my Hydra Banner CoKs. What it comes down to is that it's all or nothing. if you want the unit to work you just need to invest in it.

Otherwise, break their arms off and give 'em RhBs. They work just fine as a flank guard.

Gimp
23-06-2009, 13:28
Dont use the hand bows.

They are close to useless. Rather go for Warriors with shields and crossbows.

In my experience MSU of corsairs works best. Or a decent sized squad with an Assassin or Master

willowdark
23-06-2009, 13:52
The biggest difference between RxBs and handbow Corsairs is that the Corsairs are largely a throw away unit. to get anything out of them you need to get that S&S. This basically regulates them to the role of redirector. You should expect to loose them before the game is done.

Unlike RxBs who can stand back, be effective with shooting, then possibly reform and lend a flank charge or stand back and claim table quarters. If you like your shooters to double as redirectors than I'd say corsairs are better. RxBs are better for conservative play. But each one can be effective.

dwarfhold13
23-06-2009, 16:10
i painted up 50 corsairs for a list i did based around lokhir, and i'm slowly getting out of using any corsairs.. if they don't get the charge off, they die rather quickly unless faced by something that has strength 3 or lower..
warriors are 3 pts. cheaper fully decked out, with the same save in hand to hand and the same amount of attacks.. just better for the points.. i've never used handbow units, so i don't know how well they do.. if you were to bring them as flankers, then units of 10 with musician and extra hand weapons... and hopefully your units of warriors stay for round 2 :)
Jon

Amnar
23-06-2009, 17:44
I think for now the way to go is to drop them to 10 men in two ranks of 5. I think I'm trying to get too much out of them, and need to treat them more as a throwaway unit. I think I might have some success using them that way, whereas as a ranked unit they are sub-par

mickjagger
24-06-2009, 01:33
After reading this discussion, I actually think I might try running corsairs (dropping one of my units of warriors) in 2 units of 10, 5x2. I believe that people are misusing them, and should use them as a support/bait/throw away unit that can be overlooked by the enemy. By adding a flank charge and the slaver rule they can really add to a combat. Plus the models are amazing.

I would have one anvil unit of warriors (25x), 2 units of corsairs (10x), 3 units of harpies to harass and take out war machine crews, 2 units of rxbows and then the heavy hitters to make use of all of these agile baiting units; 2x hydras, a dragon lord and a manticore master. Seems like a solid set up to me, what do you think?

sulla
24-06-2009, 07:09
After reading this discussion, I actually think I might try running corsairs (dropping one of my units of warriors) in 2 units of 10, 5x2. I believe that people are misusing them, and should use them as a support/bait/throw away unit that can be overlooked by the enemy. By adding a flank charge and the slaver rule they can really add to a combat. Plus the models are amazing.



That's basically all they are good for. Well, that and screens for black guard. (When charged, just flee through the BG who are immune to psych).

Problem is, as a bait/throw away unit, they don't compare to fast cav or harpies, who do the job so much better.

But used as support for units like BG, mainly to exploit the slaver rule is what they do best. Too bad so many armies I face these days don't run or have so many attacks that a flank charge is suicide...

pililuk
24-06-2009, 08:52
I ran 30 corsairs, 2 hand weps, Full com, Frenzy banner, With lokhir and a BSB with the banner of extra attacks (sorry cant remember banner names). Its Only used against non unbreakable armies. But it did break and run down a big unit of ogres with 4 characters, while being charged :D (oh forgot the mandatory assassin)

willowdark
24-06-2009, 14:09
Problem is, as a bait/throw away unit, they don't compare to fast cav or harpies, who do the job so much better.

All though I agree with you in principle, I'd like to point out that Corsairs are far more likely to survive those first rounds of shooting and magic that enemies will throw at Fast Cav and harpies.

My fast cav die before they can effect the game more often than not. They just draw fire too quickly and can't stand up to it. And Harpies often have better things to do than bait, like march block and mage/warmachine hunt. Not to say that I never use Harpies to bait, just that I'd like to make sure that if there is a better job for them to do, they are free to do it.

So, with twice the wounds and a 4+ armour save against ranged attacks I'd say that, although they aren't as fast, MSU Corsairs could probably play the bait and flee game better than Dark Riders, who usually don't live long enough to do it.

sulla
25-06-2009, 02:44
So, with twice the wounds and a 4+ armour save against ranged attacks I'd say that, although they aren't as fast, MSU Corsairs could probably play the bait and flee game better than Dark Riders, who usually don't live long enough to do it. ...The reason why DR's are dissapearing from my lists in favour of harpy/crossbowmen combos, which cost similar points to a single unit of fast cav with crossbows.