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kaubin
23-06-2009, 05:35
Hello,

I recently started Warhammer again and picked upmy good old Dark Elves back. I've been looking at making an army with the new book, since many things have changed. I'm very interested in the price drop for normal spearmen, as well as the new rules for the Cauldron of Blood, I feel like it was much less powerful when I was playing, but it's been a while. Anyways, here is my wish list, i've got everything save the Cauldrons, Chariot, and still need another box of warriors, but im planning on making a purchase soon.

CHARACTERS

2X Death Hag /w Cauldron of Blood
400 points

Malus Darkblade (General)
275 points

CORE UNITS

2X 6 Dark Riders /w rxbs and musicians
278 points

2X 24 Spearmen /w shields and full command
366 points

SPECIAL UNITS

5 Cold One Knights /w full command, Standard of Hag Graef, and (General Malus)
210 points

5 Cold one Knights /w full command and Banner of Cold Blood
190 points

Cold One Chariot
100 points

RARE UNITS

War Hydra
175 points

TOTAL 1994 points

The Basic set up I was thinking about was putting a unit of Dark Riders on each side of the table, and to have them march and shoot out war machines on their first turn. Then id have each unit of Cold One Knights on either side protecting the flanks of my warriors who would stand beside the Knights against close combat geared games, or in front of them to screen against more shooting oriented games on the first turn. Then i'd put the chariot between the two units of warriors to get the charge after they hold off a unit. I'm still not sure on where to put the hydra. Then the two Cauldrons of Blood would stand behind the warriors, since they are fairly slow and the warriors could screen them, and they could radiate some terror on the flank/rear of the warriors.

What I really like about the Cauldron's is that they are useful for every unit in the army. They turn my Dark Riders into assassins (+1 attack or death strike on a unit with eternal hatred and an 18 inch charge :D), can give the Cold One Knights an extra save while they advance forward, and doubling my spearman's attacks (12 attacks normally turns into 24 attacks with eternal hatred, or 12 attacks with death strike if i'm dealing with hard monsters).

I also included Malus in one unit and the Banner of Cold Blood in the other to somehow control stupidity on my Cold One Knights, to insure that they do their job.

VeriNasti
23-06-2009, 08:30
Cauldrons are 290/280 each if I remember rightly... you add the points of cauldron to death hag? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Try only 5 DR per unit without XB's... too many penalties to do any real damage, but you could use to harass
Banner of cold blood isn't the ebst, you ahve to declare at the start of the turn. See if you can replace with war banner/ the AP one
No magic/ magical defence?? DE have some of the best magic in the game.
Good to see you haven't gone with the usual BG or 2 x hydra.
This army would be fun, but i don't think competitve.
Also Replace malus for a generic dreadlord on CO... Not many people like the named characters and he is way too overpriced for what he does.

emperorpenguin
23-06-2009, 11:29
Cauldrons are 290/280 each if I remember rightly... you add the points of cauldron to death hag? Correct me if I'm wrong..

You're wrong :p A basic Death Hag on Cauldron without gifts is 200 points

kaubin
24-06-2009, 00:48
I thought about giving the Dark Riders shields instead to make them better in combat (they lose fast cavalry and so can get full bonuses for flanking), but I like having them around to take out lone wizards and war machines in the firs turn to avoid holes in my ranks :p But I dunno why I chose six, I think i'll remove 1 in each to put magical defense.

I forgot to add a ring of hotek. I was going to put it on the Dread Knight in the unit with my General. I was also considering replacing one of the Cauldron's for a level 1 scroll caddy, it seems more "ready for anything" but a little less fun. What do you guys think?

I originally had a Master in a Cold one Chariot instead of Malus Darkblade (can't have a Dreadlord with 1999 points), but I felt like 4 stupidity tests with Ld 9 might be asking too much and tried to see what I could do to make the army more stable, since Malus removes stupidity. Would Pearl of Infitinite Bleakness work to get rid of stupidity (the character and his unit are immune to psychology) or is that just for fear and terror? I don't have experience with this much stupidity, does anyone think 4 stupidity tests a turn is going to be problematic?

Dark14
24-06-2009, 06:55
drop the riders get some corsairs. cauldrons are no good as hags cant leave them so take 2 normal hags with rune of khaine.

PeeKay
24-06-2009, 11:41
In an average game of six turn CoK go stupid 1 and bit times (22% chance of stupid on LD9). If the unit is combat then no test is necessary so reduces the number of tests required. So the question is, do you feel lucky?

I personally take the risk and save myself about 100pts for dropping Malus and replacing him with a Master on Cold One. I would also echo VeriNasti and replace the Banner of the Cold. I use the Banner of Slaughter to provide more Combat Res on charge.

How do you want to use your Dark Riders? I would not take the RxB's but you have no other real range units. However, taking off the RxB will give you 60pts and with 100pts will give you a unit of 10xDE RxB unit. By giving the DR shields they will, like you said, loose fast cavalry ability. You already have 2 units of regular cavalry in the CoK's and having fast cavalry give you something extra.

You will need to add magic defence or drop a cauldron and get a sorceress that is setup for magic defence. If this was a lower point army I would have suggested getting a sorceress with the Sacrificial Dagger and the Tomb of Furion and place her in the spearmen unit. They can provide many power dice with the dagger and the Power of Darkness spell but against a decent defence this will not be as effective.

chippyman64
24-06-2009, 16:45
drop malus and squeze out more points to get unkillable lord on chariot.

Shadowsinner
24-06-2009, 17:10
the cauldrons are fine, keep them both and make one of the two your army bsb

emperorpenguin
24-06-2009, 20:12
. Would Pearl of Infitinite Bleakness work to get rid of stupidity (the character and his unit are immune to psychology) or is that just for fear and terror? ?

The Pearl does not get rid of stupidity. Check your rulebook definition of Immune to Psychology

Kalec
24-06-2009, 20:34
I would drop the knights without Malus for another chariot and a magic banner for each unit of warriors, and give Malus' knights the standard of slaughter.

kaubin
25-06-2009, 05:45
I thought that ignore psychology wouldnt work with the phrasing in the rule book :S

Well I took all of your suggestions, as well as looked at the units I would be missing and how much they would be, and the weakspots of the army, and changed it up a little bit. Let me know what you guys think...

CHARACTERS

Master on Cold One Chariot, with Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloack, Shield, and Lifetaker (General)
210 points

Death Hag /w Cauldron of Blood
200 points

Level 2 Sorceress /w Sacrificial dagger and Tome of furion
175 points

CORE UNITS

23 Spearmen /w Full Command, Shields
176 points

10 Black Ark Corsairs /w Full Command, /w Sea Serpent Standard - 145 points

10 Black Ark Corsairs /w Double Repeater Handbows
130 points

5 Dark Riders /w Musician
92 points

5 Dark Riders /w Musician
92 points

SPECIAL UNITS

5 Cold One Knights /w Full Command, Standard of Hag Graef
210 points

5 Cold One Knights /w Full Command, Banner of Murder
200 points

12 Shades
192 points

RARE UNITS

War Hydra
175 points

I replaced the 12 crossbow shots I would get with the Dark Riders by adding the much more reliable 12 Shades. That way i'll get as much firepower, but with higher BS stats. I also replaced the second unit of Spearmen by 2 units of Corsairs. The reasoning is that 1) I have 20 corsairs from the batallion and really like the models; 2) While the unit /w 10 corsairs loses 2 combat resolution points, and are just as powerful as Warriors with the extra attack from the Cauldron of Blood, with Killing Blow support they can plow down harder enemies, and; 3) Even with only an 8 inch range, 40 shots with double repeater bows seems pretty fun, especially when charged :p

I also replaced one of the Cauldrons by a Sorceress, which is going to go in the Warriors unit with her sacrificial dagger. This adds quite a bit of magic offense, but im concerned that it might strip the ranks of my Warriors. the other alternative is to never mind magic, give her 2 dispel scrolls, and give a Dread Knight the Ring of Hotek to protect myself from magic instead of being offensive with it.

As for Deployment, Cold One Knights would protect the flanks, the Dark Riders would go ahead and try to charge easy targets, or wait in order to rear charge for me to get the charge with other units, the Shades could take care of war machines, then the Warriors and frenzied Corsairs would go next to the cold one knights, the shooty Corsairs would go down center closely followed by the General in the Chariot slight to the side who would shoot with his Lifetaker which is almost the same as a Reaper Bolt Thrower for 30 points.

Kind of sad to drop one of the Cauldrons, but this way the army feels more balanced and ready to take on more diverse armies, even though it doesn't affect the shooting units nearly as much.

What do you guys think?

Crower
25-06-2009, 20:24
Better overall army list, imho

BUT, you cannot take dual Hxbows with corsairs. 2x hand weapons OR 1x hand weapon 1x Xbow. Only champion can take dual xhbows , sorry m8.

But well, frenzied Corsairs with 2x hand weapons AND letal Strike from Cauldron are also scary ; ). 3x lethal strikes from each mini is not something to laugh about