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Major Defense
01-01-2006, 04:26
This was somewhat effective for me against a Skaven SAD army. Bascially, the heroes join a unit of Shadow Warriors which screens everyone from magic and makes Jezzials have to hit 15 point models on a six instead of popping cavalry and chariots on fives. Then I can spam two or three (hopefully) unstoppable Heavens spells every turn.

I had originally had the 2nd hero with the Amulets 'of Fire' and 'of the Purifying Flame' screening with the second unit of skirmishers, but the temptation to scout with a unit was too great. Plus this way he can add some significant shooting to the unit. The mages hide in the back with the Swordmasters and any of the characters can move between the Spearmen, Swordmasters and Shadow Warriors for better cover. Eagles are there for the obvious purposes and I took so many to ensure that they get the job done.



Archmage, level 4, Book of Hoeth - 355
Mage, dispel scroll, dispel scroll - 135
Hero, BSB, hvy. armor, Banner of the World Dragon - 159
Hero, hvy. armor, shield, Reaver Bow - 116

16 Spearmen, full command - 206
5 Silver Helms, full armor, full command - 150
5 Silver Helms, full armor, full command - 150

10 Swordmasters, full command, Banner of Sorcery, Blessed Tome - 235
15 Shadow Warriors - 225
15 Shadow Warriors - 225
2 Tiranoc Chariots - 170

2 Great Eagles - 100
2 Great Eagles - 100



Points: 2326
Power: 7+D3, book
Dispel: 5, 2 scrolls, banner
Models: 76

MEGALOMANIKER
01-01-2006, 17:29
I must say I kinda like your list, especially on the special choices... But 4 eagles? Isn't that a bit of overkill? I can understand how you were planning to use them but I'm not sure it's going to work.

Only 10 swordmasters... Hmm would actually add a few modells here, since you have so much points in a so small unit (banner of sorcery and blessed tome). Just as a side note; I have never really liked banner of sorcery, it's to much points and high chance that you only get 1pd.

Can a unit, like for exampel the swordmasters, have blessed tome (and it will work...)? You also got 75p magic items in that swordmaster unit, correct me if i'm wrong. That blessed tome must go on a hero. Either take away one scroll and give it to the mage or take away tha BSB. Also consider taking the honour lion guard.
Or were you meaning that the blessed tome would go with the hero that carries the standard?

15 shadow warriors in each unit... I have never tried it myself but it seems like a whole lot of points is going to theese two units.

Just some of my thoughts...

Major Defense
01-01-2006, 18:50
I must say I kinda like your list, especially on the special choices... But 4 eagles? Isn't that a bit of overkill? I can understand how you were planning to use them but I'm not sure it's going to work.I'm not sure I get your meaning. I took four in order to ensure that it's going to work. If he went first, he'd fry one before I move and another after my first turn. The one or two left alive after routing Jezzials and WLCs serve to march block and slow his advance toward my magic-proof line that I'm casting over.


Only 10 swordmasters... Hmm would actually add a few modells here, since you have so much points in a so small unit (banner of sorcery and blessed tome). Just as a side note; I have never really liked banner of sorcery, it's to much points and high chance that you only get 1pd.I would like to put more in that unit but they can't be shot at and are unlikely to get cast on so they'll only end up 6-wide in combat in the last round. The Banner of Sorcery gives me 8-10 power dice (2 base, 4 archmage, 1 mage, D3 banner) so I can always cast at least two 4-die spells with the book (50% chance of UF) and if I have one or two extra then I have more options.


Can a unit, like for exampel the swordmasters, have blessed tome (and it will work...)? You also got 75p magic items in that swordmaster unit, correct me if i'm wrong. That blessed tome must go on a hero. Either take away one scroll and give it to the mage or take away tha BSB. Also consider taking the honour lion guard.The Blessed Tome is 25 points and exactly as much of an enchanted item as my elite unit champions are allowed to have. If 'Intrigue at Court' doesn't land on the mage then I have a general with Ld 10. I need the two scrolls to better prevent disasterous threats. Lion Guard doesn't really fit into the plan of sitting back safely while casting and shooting.


15 shadow warriors in each unit... I have never tried it myself but it seems like a whole lot of points is going to theese two units.Yeah, it seemed wacky to me until I put it to good use. Having units that big allows me to effectively screen my entire army (except eagles) and forces an opponent to worry about unit strength in melee. 15 shots is decent even when rounding down (BS4 hit 3+/moved 4+, 10/7 hits, 5/3 wounds, then the Reaver Bow hero). Plus if he charges my screening unit (with a banner in melee!) I can have everything in place for good charges after that whole unit gets sucked into fighting ranks.


Just some of my thoughts...And I appreciate all of them. Thanks!

MEGALOMANIKER
01-01-2006, 19:44
First I must appology for my silly mistake with that blessed tome item, feel really stupid now afterwards...

Aint no expert on skaven but if you are going to meet other armies as well you will be having trouble with, especially (at least if you were playing against me), dwarfs. Are you only going to meet skaven? Sorry didn't read that text in the beginning so closely. Should I take it that you wrote this list down after you had played against a skaven SAD army (my English isn't so good...)? And now you wanted some comments/ideas of how to improve it?

Well, it looks dam good. Aint much to say that haven't been said...

Major Defense
01-01-2006, 23:29
Yeah, this was a list built to fight the Skaven SAD army but I'd like advice on how it could be rounded to handle cannons and other threats. I'm going to play against Dwarves for the first time this next weekend. First time against cannons too. There are probably a few "well rounded" HE armies that are popularly played (like double dragons, lots of chariots or SAD) but I'm hoping that the skirmishing screen army with the Book of Hoeth will be as practical with a little tweaking.

MEGALOMANIKER
02-01-2006, 10:33
First I would say something about thoose eagles again; You can try them out if you want and see how it works but I'm suggesting that you drop them. But I've never tried using four of them myself... They could actually be very useful.

Now lion guard would fit into your army. Then white lions also becomes a special choice (just mentioning it).

I would (as mentioned before) put some more units in that swordmaster unit and maybe drop a few shadow warriors (not to many thought).

Concerning that unit of spearmen I would say drop it. But many finds it rather good and are unwilling to drop this fine core unit. When you are playing against dwarfs you will need some strength in your charges, swordmasters and white lions are good infantry units against dwarfs (the only disadvantage is their high point cost and that they only fight in one rank of course).

Think about adding another unit of Silver Helms instead and make them into 6 each.

Ring of Corin is a really nice item when you are playing against dwarfs. Maybe put this on your caddy instead of thoose dp scrolls, if you still want the mage.

Now that BSB also have to go. Won't do any good anyway. Ah, as a thougth just crossed my mind; If you really want eagles think about putting the commander with the reaver bow on one.

Repeater Bolt Throwers would many say is very good to have against dwarfs but i'm not one of them, to many times have they got smashed down by thoose cannon balls. But this to is something worth thinking of. They also cost more points then your eagles, think about not having any of thoose and take a unit of white lions instead or phoenix guards (no just kidding that would cost so many points I don't even want to think about it). If you want theese anyway (RBT) you will have to move fast and take out your opponents cannons as quick as possible.

Finally: Now you seem to be a person that can make up your own mind and you just trust your own judgement and I think you will do well without any help from me, i'm just full of ******** anyway:D .

The Black Knight
02-01-2006, 10:47
Take more swordmasters witha commander with the sword master honour. For forty points you can kill peoples 400 points characters in 1 round of combat (strength 6 illing blow) and that is pretty powerful for an elf