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View Full Version : Whats the best Equip for Warriors and Marauders



zeekill
25-06-2009, 17:26
Warriors and Marauders get many choices of upgrades, each with amazing benifits. For warriors you get a higher AS from shields, tons of attacks from extra hand weapons, or STR 5 from Halberds. With Marauders theres a Light Armor/Sheild combo for an average save or Flails, which give you a smacking STR 5 in the first round of combat. But which are the best choices for each mark?

Vote your choices for overall no matter what mark you take, and then in a reply specify which you think are the best for each mark like this:

Warriors
Khorne - 2 Hand Weapons and Shield
Nurgle - Halberds or Sheilds
Slannesh - 2 Hand Weapons (you will usually be using this mark when up against Undead or Deamons so the extra attacks really help)
Tzeench - (I never use this mark anyway)

Marauders
Khorne - Flails (+ Light Armor maybe); extra attacks at WS 4, STR 5, you might end up winning combat first turn, especially if up against T3
Nurgle - Light Armor + Shield
Slannesh - Light Armor + Shield
Tzeench - (I never use this mark anyway)

Avian
25-06-2009, 18:23
Maybe you should have stuck to just one unit. The poll is a bit odd in that you allow some combos and not others. For Warriors you are ignoring halberds + shields, which is one of the most popular (and effective) choices and for Marauders you don't have any option for great weapons.

Anyways, additional hand weapons for Warriors is flat out the worst option. If you are going to use both hands and don't want to strike last, additional hand weapons are only effective against zombies, skinks and other excessively squishy foes (T3 or less with a 6+ save or worse). Against everything else, halberds are at least equally good and most often better.

Anything else depends on what you intend to use the unit for, but additional hand weapons just aren't any good.

minionboy
25-06-2009, 20:00
You are missing Halberd + Shield for warriors and Great Weapons for Maruaders.

Flails on foot Marauders are a waste. Great weapons are equally effective on the first round of combat if charging or being charged, the only difference is that Flails strike in I order on round 2 but only with str of 3.

GenerationTerrorist
25-06-2009, 21:17
No matter the mark, I always give my Warriors an extra Hand Weapon and my Marauders some Flails. Has not let me down so far.

I have to respectfully disagree with Avian's post. I prefer the knowledge that atleast half of my attacks will hit home with Warriors, so why not give them even more S4 attacks to hit with? If there is no front rank left of the enemy, then you have no reason to worry about comebacks. Even better when combined with Banner of Rage....a 6-wide unit including a Champion will have 25 attacks in each turn of combat. Should be enough to take out most of the enemy front rank in one go.

Great Weapons would be my second choice for Warriors. Halberds seem a bit "half way house" for my liking.

Obviously just my opinion, though :-)

Witchblade
25-06-2009, 21:52
I love it when people say 'well, your statistics and logic may indicate A, but my opinion is B'. I also like it when people make polls for 'best options' and forget the top 2.

Sorry, I can't resist my sarcasm...

FunkyRatDemon
25-06-2009, 23:49
You are missing Halberd + Shield for warriors and Great Weapons for Maruaders.

Flails on foot Marauders are a waste. Great weapons are equally effective on the first round of combat if charging or being charged, the only difference is that Flails strike in I order on round 2 but only with str of 3.

Completely agree

I also run my Warriors with MoS and HW+Shield (2 units of 15) since they can stick in without worrying about anything but Chariots/Cavalry/Monsters. They often take on Elite units like Grave Guard or Kroxigors rather well

Jushak
26-06-2009, 00:29
Avian's & GenerationTerrorist's clashing comments encouraged me to play around with spreadsheet a bit, and here are the results:

AHW = Additional Hand Weapons
Hal = Halberds

VS 6+ or no armor AHW is superior until T5 without BoR where both are equal. With BoR the break point is T4, where both are again equal.

At higher armors without BoR it goes thusly:

T2: AHW superior until 2+ save where both are equal.
T3: Both equal at 5+, after which Hal are superior.
T4: Hal superior.

Higher armors with BoR:

T2: AHW superior until 4+ save where Hal are superior.
T3: Hal superior.

So, the end result would be:

AHW is better vs. units that have 6+ or no armor and toughness lower than 5, i.e. light man-sized infantry.
Halberd is better vs. everything else and notably better vs. high toughness, high armor enemies.

In short: AHW is better vs. stuff that's not going to give you trouble anyway, while Halberds give them more punch vs. challenging stuff.

Windings of a snake
26-06-2009, 00:43
To be honest with you: I do not use these units at any time.

I do consider them as not efficient enough, they have insufficient movement and for the warriors the bang for your buck issue is what still keeps players from using them.

Thanks

zeekill
26-06-2009, 01:21
Maybe you should have stuck to just one unit. The poll is a bit odd in that you allow some combos and not others. For Warriors you are ignoring halberds + shields, which is one of the most popular (and effective) choices and for Marauders you don't have any option for great weapons.

Anyways, additional hand weapons for Warriors is flat out the worst option. If you are going to use both hands and don't want to strike last, additional hand weapons are only effective against zombies, skinks and other excessively squishy foes (T3 or less with a 6+ save or worse). Against everything else, halberds are at least equally good and most often better.

Anything else depends on what you intend to use the unit for, but additional hand weapons just aren't any good.

Halberds Require 2 Hands. You cant use both. And with 2 hand weapons with Mark of Khorne thats 4 attacks per Warrior.

zeekill
26-06-2009, 01:27
To be honest with you: I do not use these units at any time.

I do consider them as not efficient enough, they have insufficient movement and for the warriors the bang for your buck issue is what still keeps players from using them.

Thanks

1) Why did you post?
2) Then what you use all Marauder Horsemen? Really?

minionboy
26-06-2009, 01:29
Halberds Require 2 Hands. You cant use both. And with 2 hand weapons with Mark of Khorne thats 4 attacks per Warrior.

You can't use both at the same time, but you certainly can be equipped with both.

With a shield you get a 3+ from range save, then in combat have the option of a 2+ save or Str 5 with a 4+ save. Simply pick whichever is best for the situation you are fighting in.

Unless you're fighting people with T3 and 6+ saves (or worse), Halberds will be equal if not better to two hand weapons. Against "standard" troops, with T3 and a 5+ save, they're equal, against anything tougher, the Halberd is better, MoK or otherwise.

zeekill
26-06-2009, 01:46
You can't use both at the same time, but you certainly can be equipped with both.

With a shield you get a 3+ from range save, then in combat have the option of a 2+ save or Str 5 with a 4+ save. Simply pick whichever is best for the situation you are fighting in.

Unless you're fighting people with T3 and 6+ saves (or worse), Halberds will be equal if not better to two hand weapons. Against "standard" troops, with T3 and a 5+ save, they're equal, against anything tougher, the Halberd is better, MoK or otherwise.

True. Yea I guess thats the best way to go.

minionboy
26-06-2009, 01:48
True. Yea I guess thats the best way to go.

That's why most experienced chaos players do it. ;)

Also, if you are considering great weapons on marauders, they're super easy to convert out of the flails, just chop off the heads of the axes and picks from the hand weapons and glue them on top of the flails instead of the chain. Easy conversion and a much more effective weapon.

Isabel
26-06-2009, 02:02
There's definatly situations where an extra hand weapon would be better than a halberd for a warrior, but I like to make pre-made lists that are all comers. I dont wait to see my opponent, then sit down and write out a list that is tailored to him. Halberds are just without a doubt a much more all around useful weapon. People fear chaos warriors and will usually throw elite units at them.

But as far as the poll, since it didnt have halberds and shields I went with shields for warriors, flails for marauders. I only use the horsemen version of them and never go without flails.

Troah
26-06-2009, 03:15
Obviously the best weapons for them are Sticks & Stones because they break bones.

zeekill
26-06-2009, 03:33
I can see that the str 5 is needed for a support unit like the horsemen, that I agree with.

However as for the Marauders with great weapons, wouldnt it be better to try to win through static combat res with Light Armor/Shield? I mean a 4+ Save in a unit that has "the big 5" (for those that dont know, its 3 ranks, banner, outnumber) isnt bad survival wise... (Also because i hate the ASL rule for Great Weapons, if im only getting 6 in there and striking last that means i might only get 3 or 2 in there, especially at T3!

Avian
26-06-2009, 08:09
As I am lazy, I will just link to my article on Marauder Units and Characters (http://avianon.net/tactics/marauder_units_chars.php) on my website.

Kerill
26-06-2009, 12:47
Didn't vote since I'd give different answers:
Warriors: Halberds and shields
Marauders: Great Weapons

pringles978
26-06-2009, 12:52
^^^^i agree with kerill^^^^

though i went with shields for the marauders in addition to the great weapon

Godgolden
26-06-2009, 13:06
Didn't vote since I'd give different answers:
Warriors: Halberds and shields
Marauders: Great Weapons

yes.

yes but i will drop halberds if needed :)

Kerill
26-06-2009, 15:19
yes.

yes but i will drop halberds if needed :)

Me too if I can spare the points or if it's more of a static CR unit.

PeG
26-06-2009, 15:42
for marauders my opponent uses armour and shields and he uses them as bunkers for mages.

Drachen_Jager
26-06-2009, 16:07
The answer to both question is;

Horses ;)

zeekill
27-06-2009, 03:25
The answer to both question is;

Horses ;)

Not at all. An all mounted force gets overwhelmed by blocks if you know how to do it right

minionboy
27-06-2009, 17:49
Not at all. An all mounted force gets overwhelmed by blocks if you know how to do it right

And a cavalry can mop the floor with an army of blocks if you know how to do it right

sroblin
27-06-2009, 18:56
Sadly, I fear the conventional wisdom of the day is cavalry > infantry blocks, especially with the super-cavalry units typical of 7th edition army books (with some combination of 2+ attacks, S4 mounts, hatred, and S6.) Units like that cut through virtually any kind of infantry that can afford to have lots of ranks. So, the same conventional wisdom has long quite loudly proclaimed that all-mounted Chaos is the best and only true way to play a Chaos army effectively.

As a die-hard advocate of balanced infantry-heavy armies, I must reluctantly concede tha they are probably objectively right that all-cavalry is the most powerful way to play. That does not meen that you can't win with balanced armies, but from their optimizing perpective they see no reason to try. Not being of that school of though, my list has 4 units of infantry, though...

That said, I think even most of the cavalry advocates would concede that at least units of Marauder infantry can serve useful roles by virtue of their sheer cheapness and relative quality when given the right mark/equipment combination.

There are few that are so sympathetic to Chaos Warriors though, but as a fan of them, I think the halberds + shields is the most versatile combintion. (Sometimes I wonder why I don't equip them with great weapons, as it seems rare that the extra initiative will make a difference, but they are pricier as well...) Usually, the shields will be used instead of a special weapon, but if the warriors get the charge the halberds are invaluable. (2-hand weapons are worse against most targets that matter, as other posters have mentioned.)

Drachen_Jager
27-06-2009, 19:00
Not at all. An all mounted force gets overwhelmed by blocks if you know how to do it right

Really? You should tell my opponents about that!

I find that an all mounted list overwhelms blocks of troops, if you do it right.

Of course both sides are trying to "do it right" and that's where the strategy comes in...

<edit> I responded before seeing Minionboy's post. Hat tip to Minionboy.

Drachen_Jager
27-06-2009, 19:05
That said, I think even most of the cavalry advocates would concede that at least units of Marauder infantry can serve useful roles by virtue of their sheer cheapness and relative quality when given the right mark/equipment combination.

True, but for theme and appearances purposes I prefer all mounted. I mean if your force is 95% mounted (counting by points cost) in a "real" environment the foot sloggers wouldn't be able to keep up on the march and in a big picture strategy sense you'd probably be better off leaving them behind.

sroblin
27-06-2009, 19:35
in a "real" environment the foot sloggers wouldn't be able to keep up on the march and in a big picture strategy sense you'd probably be better off leaving them behind

Good point, I like the way you think! Strategically speaking, once an army goes from being balanced to actually cavalry-dominant, you might as well have the infantry detached to their own separate force so the cavalry can't take advantage of their higher mobility.

Of course those considerations are usually outside the scope of a Warhammer game. So in a purely competitive army, a marauder mage bunkers makes sense. Alternatively, just by having 2 units of 20+ marauders, you could still have a tribe/army that's 50% on foot, even though the most effective part of the army (horsemen, knights, gribblies) are what take up the most points. A 'balanced' army that's mostly function as a cavalry one.

But good point about the marching speed.

Drachen_Jager
27-06-2009, 22:30
I was counting my 95% by value not numbers, so the 40 marauders would still be a waste of rations in my view.

Also, 40 Marauders wouldn't come close to making up half my army, in 2250 games, I field around 75 models. I think that's part of the reason why I don't get overwhelmed by blocks of troops, I have 9 units of expendable or semi expendable troops and 4 units of Knights.

MarcoPollo
29-06-2009, 23:36
What about unit sizes and marks?

With the marauders with la/hw/sh combo, I like to use MoS. That is the only combo of the above that I use. I take a unit of 25 (+/- character slots). Early game anvil, late game hammer.

I don't use warriors, but I reckon that I'd use just shields (maybe halberds too if I have points) and either MoT or MoS. Probably no bigger than 18.

Avian
30-06-2009, 07:23
Mark of Slaanesh solves so many problems for only 10 points, I can hardly believe it.

I prefer small units. In my current army I have no unit with a rank bonus greater than +1 (though I will be assembling and painting a Marauder block in the next year).

Peril
30-06-2009, 21:37
And a cavalry can mop the floor with an army of blocks if you know how to do it right

I use blocks supported by fast cav. Good luck.

Agree with the Mark of Slaanesh. Having blocks of ItP Marauders supported by Marauder Horse is amazing. If Chaos had reasonable access to decent archery or skirmishers it would be unstoppable.