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dark_rose_67
26-06-2009, 02:27
Hi

a friend told me that he could put a skink chief rinding a stegadon in a unit of skink (not skirmisher unit) ... i thought he couldn't, but as i read in the rulebook for monster, it says that a monster cannot join a unit unless it is ridden :s anyone has read somthing else about that ???

also ... if this is right, would it be possible for a dragon ti join a unit ?

thanks

beaumontbrawler
26-06-2009, 02:38
flying monsters cannot join units . . . ridden walking monsters can

Necromancy Black
26-06-2009, 02:59
flying monsters cannot join units . . . ridden walking monsters can

This is pretty much it.

As long as the stegadon has a character riding it, it may join units. If that character dies it must immediately leave any unit it's joined to.

Flying mounts may never join any unit unless they have a rule saying they can.

dark_rose_67
26-06-2009, 03:00
so it can be sick ... giving a unit of skink stubborn ... immune to fear and terror ...

it is not that bad :p

ICLRK625
26-06-2009, 03:06
so it can be sick ... giving a unit of skink stubborn ... immune to fear and terror ...

it is not that bad :p

Nope, they don't become Stubburn, it's the other way around. If a non-stubburn hero joins a stubburn unit (for example an Ogre Tyrant joins Maneaters), he becomes Stubburn, doesn't work the other way.

This also applies to Psychology I believe, but I don't have a rule book handy for that.

Ultimate Life Form
26-06-2009, 03:14
It sounds great in theory, but till now, I haven't found any real advantage the joining Stegadon would gain or provide to the unit.:( Can we please discuss the pros and cons a bit?

Obviously, making Skinks terrorproof is a good place to start...::p:

Necromancy Black
26-06-2009, 04:03
Nope, they don't become Stubburn, it's the other way around. If a non-stubburn hero joins a stubburn unit (for example an Ogre Tyrant joins Maneaters), he becomes Stubburn, doesn't work the other way.

This also applies to Psychology I believe, but I don't have a rule book handy for that.

No, it doesn't work like that at all.

Stubborn is never gained nor lost from joining a unit.

If after break test modifiers the non-stubborn leadership is higher use that one, but it it's lower then the stubborn leadership then use the non-modified stubborn leadership.

For example, Slann in a TG unit loses combat by 4. Slann is at leadership 5 which is lower then the TG stubborn 8 so they use Ld8 for the break test.

If a stubborn character joins a unit and has the same or higher leadership then that unit it works out to be the same as if the whole unit was stubborn on that characters leadership.

ICLRK625
26-06-2009, 04:41
No, it doesn't work like that at all.

Stubborn is never gained nor lost from joining a unit.

If after break test modifiers the non-stubborn leadership is higher use that one, but it it's lower then the stubborn leadership then use the non-modified stubborn leadership.

For example, Slann in a TG unit loses combat by 4. Slann is at leadership 5 which is lower then the TG stubborn 8 so they use Ld8 for the break test.

If a stubborn character joins a unit and has the same or higher leadership then that unit it works out to be the same as if the whole unit was stubborn on that characters leadership.

Ah, ok, thanks for clearing that up.

nosferatu1001
26-06-2009, 10:18
In addition if you or your mount are stubborn then the entire model is stubborn - so a skink chief riding a stegadon with the stegadon helm (Ld8 chief) would be stubborn on Ld8

Make him a BSB and you have Stubborn Ld8 cold blooded with a reroll...

Briohmar
26-06-2009, 10:31
but the skink unit, which is what would be testing since the character joined the unit, would be testing on a modified LD 8, thus if the skinks lost combat by 4, they would have a re-rollable (BSB presence) break test on a 4, not on an 8.

Necromancy Black
26-06-2009, 10:41
but the skink unit, which is what would be testing since the character joined the unit, would be testing on a modified LD 8, thus if the skinks lost combat by 4, they would have a re-rollable (BSB presence) break test on a 4, not on an 8.

Not if the skink on the Stegadon has joined the unit. The unit is allowed to use the characters unmodified stubborn leadership.

This is clearly stated in the rules for characters in the BRB.

Briohmar
26-06-2009, 10:52
That is only if the unit joined is stubborn, which is not the case. The Character does not confer his stubborn to the unit joined, or in this case, his mount does not confer its stubborn to the unit. The unit is not stubborn, and is therefore taking its break test on the modified Ld of the character. If the Skink unit charged, and the character on steg charged as well, the skinks would not get stubborn, but the stegadon would, however if the character is in the non-stubborn unit, he loses his stubborn.

theunwantedbeing
26-06-2009, 11:05
That is only if the unit joined is stubborn, which is not the case. The Character does not confer his stubborn to the unit joined, or in this case, his mount does not confer its stubborn to the unit. The unit is not stubborn, and is therefore taking its break test on the modified Ld of the character. If the Skink unit charged, and the character on steg charged as well, the skinks would not get stubborn, but the stegadon would, however if the character is in the non-stubborn unit, he loses his stubborn.

Page 78 of the rulebook.
Bottom right hand side of the page, it carries onto page 79.

Non-stubborn unit
+ stubborn character
= stubborn unit on the character's leadership

Thats the rules.
It helps to have read them before you start making spurious claims of how something works.

narrativium
26-06-2009, 11:08
The main disadvantage I know of is the straightforward one: if your opponent can charge the unit in such a way that they're only in base contact with skinks, then the Stegadon is praying for good CR or a passed break test. I've had a Hunter and Sabretusks wipe out a unit - skinks, Kroxigor, Stegadon, priest and all - by killing a flank column of skinks, and overruning.

TroyJPerez
26-06-2009, 11:22
Joining a Stegadon to a unit of skinks does have one other advantage. Your stegadon mount loses its immune to psycology and is allowed to declaire a flee reaction if it wishes.

Briohmar
26-06-2009, 11:32
I retract, I was thinking of something else, and I did re-read the page.

Necromancy Black
26-06-2009, 13:57
I retract, I was thinking of something else, and I did re-read the page.

That would be Immune to psychology which is definitely lost if joining a unit that doesn't have it.

Belerophon709
27-06-2009, 01:53
Then again, the unit in this case would only have to worry about panic, as the Stegadon confers immunity to fear and terror onto the unit, by being a terror-causer itself.


Bele

Necromancy Black
27-06-2009, 01:56
Then again, the unit in this case would only have to worry about panic, as the Stegadon confers immunity to fear and terror onto the unit, by being a terror-causer itself.


Bele

Yeah, all they would have left to worry about is, I dunno, actual panic tests? You know, things that cause panic and not fear and terror. Also why are you taking panic tests in the place of fear and terror tests?

Belerophon709
27-06-2009, 02:00
In place of? What do you mean?


Bele

Necromancy Black
27-06-2009, 03:07
Ahahaha, I can't read, ignore me Belerophon709 :D

I thought you said they woldn't have to worry about panic, instead of would have to. Serves me right for posting while taste testing skittle vodka :angel: