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Draconian77
26-06-2009, 08:58
General thread, just wondering how you would feel playing with or against this army or how you would comp it at a tournament, etc.


~Dreadlord, Cold One, Armour of Eternal Servitude, Sword of Might, Potion of Strength, Null Talisman, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak. (Joins the Spearmen, Cold One grants immunity to Fear, worth the risk of Stupidity with Ld10)

~Master, Armour of Darkness, Ring of Hotek(aka "The One Ring"), Great Weapon. (Joins the Black Guard)

~Master, BsB, Pendant of Khaeleth, Soulrender, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak. (Joins the Black Guard, thinking about switching the Soul Render out for a normal GW and giving him the Blood Armour, tough call...)

~Sorceress, 2 Dispel Scrolls.
(If you don't have a caddy you're not playing WHFB...:cries:)

~21 Spearmen, Full Command, Banner of Murder.

~Assassin, AHW, Rune of Khaine, Touch of Death, Black Lotus.
(Joins the Spearmen, usually...)

~10 Rxbmen, Shields.

~5 Dark Riders, Musician.

~10 Black Guard, Full Command, Banner of Hag Graef, *Magic Weapon.
*(Either the Whip of Agony or the Crimson Death on the unit Champion, another tough call...)

~6 Shades, Great Weapons.

~Hydra.

~2 Bolt Throwers.

Sprites stole my army book so I can't give the exact points of things(I'll edit that soon enough!) but it all fits into 2000pts. I'm very happy with the characters, they all have decent defensive and offensive capabilities with props going to the Dreadlord who can inflict a -6 modifier to enemy saves!

amade0
26-06-2009, 09:34
do the dark riders have rxb?

Draconian77
26-06-2009, 10:08
Nope, I find that with moving them every turn and the multi-shot penalty I'm normally looking at 6's to hit which is a little depressing, I think for the points I would rather put a pair of hand held Rxbows on some of my characters...now if only that sprite would give me my book back. :D

The SkaerKrow
26-06-2009, 11:25
It doesn't look particularly over-the-top, though it does roughly conform to the Dark Elf Toybox style of list.

I might be inclined to pad the numbers of the Black Guard a bit, since you're going to be sheltering two characters in the unit. You can expect them to attact a decent amount of missile fire, and if you're planning on using them as a mainline unit you'd be well served to line up some more bodies behind the poor saps in the front line.

Eulogy2
26-06-2009, 16:55
Nope, I find that with moving them every turn and the multi-shot penalty I'm normally looking at 6's to hit which is a little depressing, I think for the points I would rather put a pair of hand held Rxbows on some of my characters...now if only that sprite would give me my book back. :D

i dont have my rule book with me, but i think your wrong here. i beleive fast cavalry dont suffer move and shoot penalties and i think they can march and shoot(not 100% sure as LM dont have fast cav:p). so youd be -1 for multiple shots(4+ to hit) and -1 for longe range at times(5+) to hit. someone can back me up here if im right, but i strongly advise giving them RxBows.

willowdark
26-06-2009, 17:21
Nope, they can march and shoot, but suffer movement penalties as normal.

Looking at you list, I'd say that my assessment of it in the Tactica _was_ a little off. You've invested a lot more into your infantry blocks than I assumed. I could reasonably take 700 pts from you without engaging your Character bunkers. So give or take table Quarters and/or casualties from shooting and if the Hydra gets away from me, this could play for a Draw more often than not. But I just can't believe that this list can win consistently against good opponents.

I'd rather see your Armour of Darkness master with a magic weapon on a Dark Peg. You could give the ring to the black guard champ. That way you'd have some kind of ranged threat to force your opponent to come to you. You have some RxBs and 2 RBTs, but you don't bring Harpies to protect them, so I wouldn't count on them staying around long enough to earn the points you need to break the draw. With a mobile fighter you could at least play the "kill the little guys" game as well as your opponents.

I'd think that a good Wood Elf general would own this list, as well as a Slann + Terradons and razors. And Warriors should bring enough tools to take away your strengths. -6 to AS is good against WoC, but not so much against anything with a Ward Save. And you're a sitting duck against artillery or a Hellcannon.

Wow. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be harsh. I just don't think it's a good list, at all.

Draconian77
27-06-2009, 10:19
It doesn't look particularly over-the-top, though it does roughly conform to the Dark Elf Toybox style of list.

I might be inclined to pad the numbers of the Black Guard a bit, since you're going to be sheltering two characters in the unit. You can expect them to attact a decent amount of missile fire, and if you're planning on using them as a mainline unit you'd be well served to line up some more bodies behind the poor saps in the front line.

At 2250 it the Black Guard do indeed get padded, but what I have found is that the 2 frontline blocks are so good in combat I don't need to worry about them that much as long as I use them together. (Although rarely they do get screened by my Shades...)

This leaves my shooting free to shoot down their shooting where in conventional lists it would be busy shooting at monsters and knights.

Draconian77
27-06-2009, 10:41
Nope, they can march and shoot, but suffer movement penalties as normal.

Looking at you list, I'd say that my assessment of it in the Tactica _was_ a little off. You've invested a lot more into your infantry blocks than I assumed. I could reasonably take 700 pts from you without engaging your Character bunkers.

Not to be rude but, "I could easily get 1400pts off you for every 700pts you get off me."

See my point? They are both groundless statements. Care to elaborate a little on your original point?

So give or take table Quarters and/or casualties from shooting and if the Hydra gets away from me, this could play for a Draw more often than not. But I just can't believe that this list can win consistently against good opponents.

I'd rather see your Armour of Darkness master with a magic weapon on a Dark Peg. You could give the ring to the black guard champ. That way you'd have some kind of ranged threat to force your opponent to come to you.

It's unecessary.

You have some RxBs and 2 RBTs, but you don't bring Harpies to protect them, so I wouldn't count on them staying around long enough to earn the points you need to break the draw.

I can't use Harpies, as they are a (fluffwise)Khainite unit. This is a Cult of Slaanesh list. (Yes, I realise the Assassin is also a Khainite unit but the idea that all Assassins are from the Temple of Khaine is a ludicrous one, whereas the idea that Harpies are an incarnated form of Khaine is not.)

But I don't protect them with Harpies, I protect them with Shades. Why on earth why I need to march block my opponent when my combat blocks are so formidable. I notice in the tactica thread you make frequent comments about "flanking the BG/flanking the Warriors", that is a very difficult thing to do when I castle and devote my shooting to destroying your support units.

Well, regardless, I think you'll find that Shades make a great bodyguard for your Reapers.

With a mobile fighter you could at least play the "kill the little guys" game as well as your opponents.


I don't need to, that is what the shooing is for. I really don't need to focus on combat units at all.

I'd think that a good Wood Elf general would own this list, as well as a Slann + Terradons and razors. And Warriors should bring enough tools to take away your strengths.

I really don't see any of these things as being issues, whislt its true that the list have weaknesses against certain other lists that basically applies to any list in WHFB. This game is more like rock-paper-scissors than any other tabletop game in my experience. But even then I have developed tricks and tactics to hurt such lists.

-6 to AS is good against WoC, but not so much against anything with a Ward Save. And you're a sitting duck against artillery or a Hellcannon.

Things with Ward saves? So few things in this game have Ward saves(Yes, of course barring Daemons! :p) The rest of them tend to be negated by magic attacks or to be very low. You're overlooking the Str value and focussing on the save modifier. Being able to wound Treemen/Dragons/Stegadons on 2+ for the first round of combat with Hatred is unbelievable.

As for Warriors, well, lets just say that they don't often bring the Hellcannon to bear and even if they did I would not be worried. It's a glorified Stone Thrower. Artillery? Generally artillery is inaccurate, the only piece of artillery that I fear is the Dwarf Organ gun.

Wow. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be harsh. I just don't think it's a good list, at all.

That's ok, most of you arguments seem to stem from a lack of understanding on how this list plays. Hopefully I can get some battle reports up quickly against a variety of foes and show you how effective it can be.


Pink Filler.

EDIT: Filled the list out to 2250pts by adding:

6 Black Guard
6 more Shades(seperate unit)
6 more Spearmen
1 more Dark Rider
2 more Rxbmen.

Giving nearly all of my units a US in multiples of 6. (27 Spears+Us2 Cold One+Us1 Assassin is a stretch, everything else is golden...)