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Lemonbrick
26-06-2009, 21:06
Any ideas how big a snotty pump wagons base size should be ?

Im thinking of converting some up

cheers

Lemonbrick

Paz
26-06-2009, 21:24
Chariot base size

Amlesh
26-06-2009, 22:20
Yup, 50 x 100 mm

Lemonbrick
27-06-2009, 14:55
cheers guys , thats cool plenty of space to do fun things then

prelude_to_war
28-06-2009, 02:11
Lemonbrick, I'm also scratchbuilding some pumpwagons. Would love to see what you come up with...

They discussed this over on Da Warpath: http://z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=24420

Several people have different answers but sounds like you have the option to choose?

Visually I like the 50x100, but game-wise wouldn't it lead to a slight unfair advantage? If you roll distance from center of the model, then move with front towards the enemy, you're up the extra 50mm (100mm length versus 50mm). On the other hand if you measure from front to front, you still have an advantage as the base 50mm longer...50mm square seems to make the most sense given how pumpwagons move - IMO.

Just want to explore all options before I glue my scratchbuilt models onto their bases...

Gazak Blacktoof
28-06-2009, 20:33
I'd use either a 50mm or 40mm square base. There's a base size chart on the french GW site that lists them as 50x100, though I think that's unreasonably large for such a small and weedy contraption.

Amlesh
28-06-2009, 22:25
I'd use either a 50mm or 40mm square base. There's a base size chart on the french GW site that lists them as 50x100, though I think that's unreasonably large for such a small and weedy contraption.

It's a chariot though... chariots go on chariot bases, no?

Urgat
28-06-2009, 22:40
Visually I like the 50x100, but game-wise wouldn't it lead to a slight unfair advantage? If you roll distance from center of the model, then move with front towards the enemy, you're up the extra 50mm (100mm length versus 50mm). On the other hand if you measure from front to front, you still have an advantage as the base 50mm longer...50mm square seems to make the most sense given how pumpwagons move - IMO.

The GW french base chart has them on charriot bases (see sig). I don't see why measuring distances are changed because of the base size, though. if you move 10" forward, you move 10" forward, no?


I'd use either a 50mm or 40mm square base. There's a base size chart on the french GW site that lists them as 50x100, though I think that's unreasonably large for such a small and weedy contraption.

The older version actually measures 40x40mm and so fits just right on a 40mm base (looks silly and useless though), but the new one is way bigger, and not weedy at all; a charriot base is much better, even a 50mm base isn't enough imho. Just follow what GW says in that regard. There's lots of unreasonable things in Warhammer, the snotling base is really not the worst one ;)

Gazak Blacktoof
28-06-2009, 23:15
It's a chariot though... chariots go on chariot bases, no?

Well no, mine goes on the base I put it on when I assembled it/ the base it came with. 50mm in the case of the one I've got.

My wyvern might get rebased though as the 50mm base makes it difficult to use in a game and 50x100 is much more appropriate.

EDIT: I've been thinking I need a second one for a while now, as they're two for one rare slot, but they're 20 each. I guess that's why the OP is scratch building his.

Lord Dan
29-06-2009, 01:00
Visually I like the 50x100, but game-wise wouldn't it lead to a slight unfair advantage? If you roll distance from center of the model, then move with front towards the enemy, you're up the extra 50mm (100mm length versus 50mm). On the other hand if you measure from front to front, you still have an advantage as the base 50mm longer...50mm square seems to make the most sense given how pumpwagons move - IMO.

You don't measure from the center. At least, you shouldn't be.

Also there is no mathematical advantage to having a "longer" base if you're starting at the same point. The only way it would be advantageous would be if the extra 50mm was extending forwards beyond your deployment.

theunwantedbeing
29-06-2009, 01:27
A chariot base can move 25mm further than a 50mm large monster base.
Done by deploying with a flank right to the edge of the deployment zone, and then pivoting before moving and then moving forwards. Ending up facing the enemy.

This result in a slight amount of additional movement.

Similarly, you gain additional movement when turning as well.
It happens with any non-square base, but only with the chariot base do you really gain a useful amount of additional distance.

Plus pump wagons dont need to see a target to charge it, they move like spawn so if they hit something, its a charge. You just nominate a direction.

So the max charge range of a chariot based pump wagon is 13"
The max range of a square based pump wagon is only 12"

Spirit
29-06-2009, 01:48
A chariot base can move 25mm further than a 50mm large monster base.
Done by deploying with a flank right to the edge of the deployment zone, and then pivoting before moving and then moving forwards. Ending up facing the enemy.

This result in a slight amount of additional movement.

Similarly, you gain additional movement when turning as well.
It happens with any non-square base, but only with the chariot base do you really gain a useful amount of additional distance.

Plus pump wagons dont need to see a target to charge it, they move like spawn so if they hit something, its a charge. You just nominate a direction.

So the max charge range of a chariot based pump wagon is 13"
The max range of a square based pump wagon is only 12"

It was my understanding that the rules for moving chariots and monsters were along the lines of "move the model the allotted movement value, pivoting as needed"

Sorry, its going to sound vague because i dont have my rulebook on me. But the way i saw it, pivoting first doesn't matter, because you:

A: Measure from starting position
B: Measure to finish position
C: Move chariot, pivoting as necessary.

How can this be used to pivot in the way you mention?

Spirit
29-06-2009, 01:53
Ok here we go.


pg62: When moving a chariot, simply measure the distance and move it. there is no need to turn or wheel, though the chariot must have line of sight to charge.

In effect, chariots can turn to face any direction (pivoting around the centre nof the model) at any point in their move.


Now, i know your going to argue that the second paragraph is where you steal the extra movement, but the first paragraph overrides it, by saying measure and move. The second sentance is an explination, hence "in effect"

No?

Chipacabra
29-06-2009, 02:10
(rules)

The rules clearly assume circular chariots.

Spirit
29-06-2009, 03:20
The rules clearly assume circular chariots.

By saying that there is no need to turn or pivot, the rules don't give a damn. If you dont need to pivot to get from point A to point B, pivoting will not give you any bonus in getting from point A to point B.

Saying they assume circular bases when they have been using square/rectangle ones for 25+ years doesn't make much sense to me.

I had this discussion a few months ago because i assumed you had to pivot on the center, thus i could pin a chariot/stegadon in place with another monster (it was a game with wood eles, we maneuvered terrain on one side of the monster and a treeman on the other, meaning it could not turn and thus could not escape my arc of sight) but as it turned out, everyone beat it into me that the chariot doesn't pivot, it just moves from point A to B. (which i agreed with)

rtunian
29-06-2009, 13:10
The rules clearly assume circular chariots.

i think that was a joke

prelude_to_war
30-06-2009, 20:53
?

http://www.angelfire.com/ma2/machiara/downloads/card-playsheet-v2.pdf

Lord Dan
02-07-2009, 04:09
I see they've put the Steam Tank on the imaginary 80x120 base.

Urgat
02-07-2009, 10:26
?

http://www.angelfire.com/ma2/machiara/downloads/card-playsheet-v2.pdf

Look at the date of yours. 2003.
"points at sig"
Look at the date of mine. 2009.

prelude_to_war
02-07-2009, 13:54
Je vois (trans: I see)

Looks like 100x50 for me then...just don't understand how they have an updated French PDF but not an English one. Maybe the next FAQ will be in Arabic.