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View Full Version : starting fantasy high elves, would you rate my list and give me any sugestions



meanmachine
27-06-2009, 22:00
hi

i have only played trial games of fantasy atm

i am now starting to buy a high elves army to begin playing, but i am used to 40k. so could you look at the lists and rate then so i get an idea of what is a good all round army for fantasy.

i really like teclis and tyrion they are great

my 2 lists are:


Teclis 475
Mage Lv2, annulian crystal 175
20 archers with hawkeye 230
15 Spearmen with Sentinel and musician 150
15 Sword masters
(Bladelord with amulet of light, musician, standard bearer) 270
12 White lions
(Guardian, musician, standard bearer with banner of sorcery) 260
Lion chariot 140
Repeater bolt thrower 100
Repeater bolt thrower 100
Rare Great eagle 50
Rare Great eagle 50
TOTAL POINTS= 2000


Tyrion 400
Mage (Lv2, annulian crystal) 175
Mage (Lv2, dispel scroll) 160
15 archers (Hawkeye, musician) 180
15 archers (hawkeye) 175
10 Dragon princes (Drakemaster with amulet of light, musician, standard bearer with standard of balance) 410
10 Dragon princes
(Drakemaster, musician, standard bearer) 350
5 Dragon princes 150
TOTAL POINTS= 2000


i think the 1st list is more prepaired but i really want to take the 2nd list against a tzeentch daemon army someday my dragon prince will laugh at them.

are there and ways you can think of to make thes list better or do you think i have done the best i can

Fraggzy
28-06-2009, 01:35
Personally i dont like Teclis, he is supposed to be near demi-god'ish (acording to the books)

1. I rarely get any real use for my great eagles and if you are thinking of going magic (because of Teclis) then only two mages wont do.

2. To me it looks kind of like a WAAC army, with both tyrion (super strong) and that many dragon princes (they are really strong). why not rather go for a more "balanced army of more "balanced" troops? :)

SuperArchMegalon
28-06-2009, 08:54
Hello, welcome to the greener side of the pond! Just so you know, special characters in WHFB are a touchy subject for many players... Often times they are way too good for their points, they dominate the game, and leave balanced armies with little measure to deal with them. Unfortunately Teclis is one of the worst offenders...

In your first list, aside from Teclis I think you've done a good job of balancing your forces. Actually that's more core troops than one can expect to see in a High Elf army, which is generally only as strong as its specials and rares. May I suggest taking two units of 10 archers instead of one unit of 20, as a unit that big in WHFB is unweildy, unlikely to shoot all its bowmen, and still weak in combat. Also you need at least 20 Spearmen to a unit for them to do anything, and 12 White Lions seems like it's also a bit too few if you want them to really work.

List #2 looks pretty tough, lots of Dragon Princes means it will pack a punch. Your main weakness will be shooting - if your opponent brings down enough knights before you get to him he'll have an easy time mopping up. No comment on Tyrion as I've never played against him...

stonetroll
28-06-2009, 09:17
Welcome to the fantasy side of the hobby!

I am not a HE player myself, but one of my regular opponents is, so let me elaborate on the knowledge of someone on the receiving end ;).


my 2 lists are:


Teclis 475

If you fellow players allow special characters, he's ceratinly VERY powerfull. I do not revommend him for a starting player though, normal characters have enough special rules as it is.

Mage Lv2, annulian crystal 175

Consider giving him a Dispell Scroll as well

20 archers with hawkeye 230

Consider making these 2*10 without any command. The unit is weak in combat with or without command and the +1BS on the champion really isn't worth the point investment.

15 Spearmen with Sentinel and musician 150

Good in a starting army. Try beefin them to 20. When you've got a bit more experience, you will probably drop these for more special/rare choices though.

15 Sword masters
(Bladelord with amulet of light, musician, standard bearer) 270

Drop them to 14 and place them 7 wide in 2 ranks. Amulet of Light is an excellent choice. Consider giving them Banner of Sorcery instead.

12 White lions
(Guardian, musician, standard bearer with banner of sorcery) 260

Excellent choice, consider swapping Banner of Sorcery for Lion Standard. This standard makes them immune to fear/terror, thus greatly increasing the effectiveness of their Stubborn.

Lion chariot 140

Good, though chariots are considerably better in pairs.

Repeater bolt thrower 100
Repeater bolt thrower 100

Good

Rare Great eagle 50
Rare Great eagle 50

Dont leave home without these :)

TOTAL POINTS= 2000


Tyrion 400

Generally considered overcosted. Stays alive for very long, but doesn't kill a lot.

Mage (Lv2, annulian crystal) 175

As above

Mage (Lv2, dispel scroll) 160

Good, as above

15 archers (Hawkeye, musician) 180

As above

15 archers (hawkeye) 175

As above

10 Dragon princes (Drakemaster with amulet of light, musician, standard bearer with standard of balance) 410

Thesse guys pack a punch, but are VERY expensive. Usually people take units of 5/6 as the rear rank is a lot of points for +1 combat resolution.

10 Dragon princes
(Drakemaster, musician, standard bearer) 350

As above

5 Dragon princes 150

Good

TOTAL POINTS= 2000

These lists are not exactly pwerhouses, but if you swap the special characters for 2 generic characters each, I think you have a good army to start to learn with.

Real powerhouse HE armies consist mostly of:

Teclis
2-3 lvl 2 mages

20 archers

3 Bolt throwers

1 eagle

filled up with elite infantry/dragon princes

OR

Star Dragon
Lvl 1 mage with 2 Dispell scrolls
Mounted BSB with Battle banner

20 Archers (see the general idea about HE core? :p)

2-3* 6 Dragon Princess

3 Bolt throwers

1 Eagle

Good luck whichever way you want to go!

meanmachine
28-06-2009, 23:29
thank you for all the tips. please keep them coming

most of you mentioned splitting the archers into 2 units. the reason i have a single unit of 20 is to keep teclis as safe as possible, but do you really think i would be betteer off splitting the unit into 2.

i'll try both methods and see what happens.

the thing i like most in fantasy is magic, so i looked at what are some of the best spellcasters, it came down to 3 tzeentch daemons, taclis, or vampire counts.

vampire counts and daemons are hated so much so i decided high elves because of teclis.

again thanks very much for all the tips guys

stonetroll
29-06-2009, 02:07
the thing i like most in fantasy is magic, so i looked at what are some of the best spellcasters, it came down to 3 tzeentch daemons, taclis, or vampire counts.

vampire counts and daemons are hated so much so i decided high elves because of teclis.



Don't expect to be called a cheese any less when you bring Teclis :). In the current state of the game, magic is devastating, but (in most armies) highly unreliable due to the amount of dice being rolled (miscast) which more or less balance each other out. Now Teclis, VC and DoC all relieve a huge amount of that randomness from magic through low casting value single dice spam (VC/DoC) or due to a rediculously high chance on an irreistable force (Teclis), more or less ruining the balance that came through the unreliability.

IMHO you should just play whatever you like and then go from there. Most (established) tournament scenes have a "comp" scoring of armylists which basically gives you a handicap comparable to that used in Golf. This means that you are just fine to bring your Teclis/Tzeentch/VC list, but you'll have to score bigger wins than softer lists in order to get the same overall score.

WhiteKnight
29-06-2009, 06:13
Um, some point values are off. The mage with the scroll is 155 points, not 160. High Elves have 20 point dispel scrolls/powerstones/war banners. We're just cool like that.

Two, spearmen should ALWAYS have a banner. Static combat resolution is worth it.

Dont pay full command on lions without them being 20 strong.

Four, archers shouldnt have 3 ranks so keep them at 10. Really cheap and can get 2 ranks. But feel free to have 2-3 units of 10 archers, they're actually pretty good. 3 of my archers killed a chaos knight that had a 1+ save and then a 4+ ward or something.

SuperArchMegalon
29-06-2009, 07:25
Putting Teclis in a unit of archers is like protecting your life savings in a paper bag. Stick him in a forest, maybe with some White Lions, or else your opponent is going to be smacking his lips at your 600 point unit of... archers.

Teclis may be fine in a tournament scenario because of comp scores, but in a friendly game you're just going to bugger your opponents. Why not take an Archmage?

Dragon Prince of Caledor
29-06-2009, 17:40
Using special characters off the bat is probably not a great idea. Break the unit of 20 archers into two units of ten. Lose the hawkeye. Not worth the points. Rank the swordmasters 7 across. Give them some magic defense banner of arcance protection is always good. I would put a sacred incense character in the unit too otherwise there wont be any SM left by the time combat is reached. Both lists are excessively small IMO. The second list is wasting points. Ten dragon princes is overkill. 6 with a character is plenty. You dont want to be paying for points that do nothing. We dont get lance formation :P silly brets. You need some models. You need rank and file. Especially if you are new to the game the second list especially would get owned.
Good luck

Aceious
29-06-2009, 18:03
It isn't too bad, but as mentioned the special characters are a touchy subject. I have played high elves since they were 1st redone in 2001 (before we always strike first :-P) But anyways I have found the archers thing (2 units of 10 instead of 20 strong) is best. Also the dragon princes I have had amazing luck with in 1 rank of 5. The back rank doesn't give you any more attacks and the extra combat rez point can be made up with a warbanner if you really want. I field 5 dragon princes with full command and the banner of ellyrion to let them pass over any terrain like it were open ground. Also upping the spearmen to 20 like has been mentioned. The 12 white lions should serve you fine, I field 10 with a command and warbanner. Use them for smaller heavy armoured units and try to flank your opponent using that woodsmen rule to your advantage. I also have not had good luck with great eagles, some times they are great but you could use that 100pts for something else, like strengthening a unit you have. (any shooty army will nail them off the bat)... I also agree with upping the frontage on the swordmasters. Not bad though :) Also the spearmen should most certainly have a banner. Best of luck with the high elves :)

puppetmaster24
29-06-2009, 18:11
as lists for beginers these are a good jumping off point, and they will be alot of fun to play with and against.