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antin3
28-06-2009, 21:57
I have been away from WFB for so long I may as well be considered a noob. But yesterday a buddy and I played, he with his out-of-retirement Empire and me with a bunch of night goblins that had been laying around. I really liked the army although it was only just thrown together and I would like to start a goblin army (common goblins).
I need some help first with a couple of questions.

1. I have read a few posts that claim spears suck in 7th, but wouldn't you want to attack with two ranks and get ten to twelve attacks instead of five or seven, or am I missing something? (in regards to a goblin army)

2. I have read about someone who won a tournament with a goblin army using what he called "swiss army goblins" that is armed with lt. armor, bows and shield. I like the idea but don't you only get to shoot with the first rank if not set up on a hill? If so wouldn't the bows kinda be a waste of points?

3. I would like to use Gromm the paunch but are special characters looked down on in WFB? In 40k it is kinda becoming common place with the new codexes.

That's about all I can think of right now, any input would be appreciated.

Leogun_91
28-06-2009, 22:38
1. I have read a few posts that claim spears suck in 7th, but wouldn't you want to attack with two ranks and get ten to twelve attacks instead of five or seven, or am I missing something? (in regards to a goblin army)If you want to use spears on goblins do it as me and have massive ranks...I play them 10 wide, ten to twelve goblin attacks arenīt worth it.


2. I have read about someone who won a tournament with a goblin army using what he called "swiss army goblins" that is armed with lt. armor, bows and shield. I like the idea but don't you only get to shoot with the first rank if not set up on a hill? If so wouldn't the bows kinda be a waste of points?Still about how wide ranks you play and what role you want them in, but generally it is better with specialised troops than jacks of all trades.


3. I would like to use Gromm the paunch but are special characters looked down on in WFB? In 40k it is kinda becoming common place with the new codexes.people look down on it sometimes but Grom isnīt the kind of character people hates to meet, is he still avaiable to order by the way....I ordered mine a long time ago fortunately.


That's about all I can think of right now, any input would be appreciated.Itīs good to see a common goblin force now, they are almost as uncommon as savage orcs these days with people prefering nightgoblins, and get some chukkas, they fit the theme well and youīll need them.

selone
28-06-2009, 22:54
1. I have read a few posts that claim spears suck in 7th, but wouldn't you want to attack with two ranks and get ten to twelve attacks instead of five or seven, or am I missing something? (in regards to a goblin army)

They don't suck as much as adding a point a point to a goblin when hw and shields are very respectable seems a bit of a waste. But as in all things feel free to try them out for yourself and let us know how you do :)


2. I have read about someone who won a tournament with a goblin army using what he called "swiss army goblins" that is armed with lt. armor, bows and shield. I like the idea but don't you only get to shoot with the first rank if not set up on a hill? If so wouldn't the bows kinda be a waste of points?

Never heard of that army type nor of its success, could you provide more info?


3. I would like to use Gromm the paunch but are special characters looked down on in WFB? In 40k it is kinda becoming common place with the new codexes.

There's some residual dislike of them, some of which I empathise with. I doubt anyone would have a problem with Grom though, he's very thematic and not overpoweringly good game-wise like some of the more complained about ones.

Spleendokta
28-06-2009, 23:05
Wierd. I myself just getting back into whfb after not playing for years and I too planned on starting a all common goblin army (no NG's or hoppers). I was never about building lists to wacc and always enjoyed themed lists.

Heres a quick break down of the list I was concidering. I should say its the list ill be using for at least a few months since it will be fully painted here in a couple of weeks :). I'm part of a motivation to paint club in my local area, so its pushing me to finish up this army. So far its turning out alot better than I thought.

Goblin warboss (131)

wolf
martog's best basha
la
+5 ward

Goblin big boss (124)

wolf
la
bsb (rowdy grotts big red raggedy banner)

Goblin shaman (200)

chariot
staff of sneaky stealin

Goblin shaman (200)

chariot
despell scrolls X2

Common goblins (140)

X30 full command
shields

Common goblins (140)

X30 full command
shields

Common goblins (140)

X30 full command
shields

Common goblins (140)

X30 full command
shields

Common goblins (140)

X30 full command
shields

Goblin Wolf Riders (71)

X5
muscian
spears

Goblin Wolf Riders (71)

X5
muscian
spears

Goblin Wolf Riders (71)

X5
muscian
spears

Goblin Wolf Riders (71)

X5
muscian
spears

Goblin Wolf Riders (71)

X5
muscian
spears

Snotlings 2 bases (40)

Snotlings 2 bases (40)

Snotlings 2 bases (40)

Spear chukka (35)

Spear chukka (35)

Spear chukka (35)

Spear chukka (35)

Goblin Wolf chariot (60)

Goblin Wolf chariot (60)

Trolls (80)

X2

Trolls (80)

X2

2250 total
6 cd
4 dd (staff and 2 scrolls)
209 total models
25 deployment drops with tons of trash troops lol

I could swop out 2 chukka's for a rock lobber or 2 trolls for 2 pump wagons. Havnt decided yet, but this is the general list im sticking with for awhile.

Nuada
28-06-2009, 23:11
...but don't you only get to shoot with the first rank if not set up on a hill?

Depends who/where your target is. If your enemy is on a hill, or he's a large target you can shoot with every rank.

antin3
28-06-2009, 23:47
Hey thanks for the quick replies, this helps a lot.
Leogun-I'll look at widening the ranks, I can see where that would help.
Selone-I read about the tournament winning army on Da Warpath website, it's a forum dedicated to fantasy greenskins. If you go to the tactics forum and read the thread titled "large troll units, I tried something new." There is a thread inside the thread called goblin only armies that give some good advise, it's in there.
spleendokta- That is a bit weird, I'm the same with themed lists, and thanks for the army list, that will help me out. The only reason I have even thought about using Grom is because I recently purchased the Avatars or War goblin king model and thought he would make a really cool Grom. But I will wait and see, I myself am not a huge fan of special characters.

Dungeon_Lawyer
29-06-2009, 02:04
grom is AWESOME--especially against elves, but that goes without saying...

Adran
30-06-2009, 15:06
25 deployment drops with tons of trash troops lol

I could swop out 2 chukka's for a rock lobber or 2 trolls for 2 pump wagons. Havnt decided yet, but this is the general list im sticking with for awhile.

Just to remind you, all war machines are deployed as one choice, so its only(!) 19 deployment drops

Drakcore Bloodtear
30-06-2009, 15:41
Goblins are really awsome their fun and can be competertive

Although I've never used Grom he's look good enough

But I.m confused why many people dislike Commom Goblins?

Peril
30-06-2009, 17:41
Noone will give you guff about Grom unless they just hate all special characters without reason. All he does is mitigate some of the ridiculous penalties you are taking by playing gobbos.

Da GoBBo
30-06-2009, 20:20
Itīs good to see a common goblin force now, they are almost as uncommon as savage orcs these days with people prefering nightgoblins, and get some chukkas, they fit the theme well and youīll need them.

GW policy, they were arguably the best unit in 6th edition, so now they stink :(

- for four points you have a goblin that doesn't kill anything and has a 4+ as
- for four points you have a goblin that doesn't kill anything and has a 6+ as

:confused: Yes, option one is a HW-shield-la. combo, option two a spear la. combo. Ye should greatly prefer the HW since ye can not expect them to kill anything (that's why you have chariots) but with a 4+ as they might be considered reliable.

Ten wide gobbo's. It would suited for 8x20 mm bases and 7x25 mm bases and 4x40 mm bases. You only see Ogres that wide. Units wider than 9 bases are no use in my opinion. .... Woohoo I'm a munchkin :D

Back to spears. If this 9wide unit would charge a 6 wide shield orc unit, they would kill 10 x 1/2 x 1/3 x 1/2 = 0.83 shieldorcs
The orcs would kill 5 x 2/3 x 2/3 x 1 =2.22 speargoblins
or 5 x 2/3 x 2/3 x 2/3 = 1.48 hw-shieldgoblins
5 wide goblins would kill 0.83 / 10 x 6 = 0.5 shieldorcs

hw-shieldgoblins are better, even versus another unit that can't hit

Orcs charge, they kill 2.22 / 5 x 6 = 2.67 speargoblins
or 5 x 2/3 x 2/3 x 2/3 = 1.48 hw-shieldgoblins
speargoblins kill 16 x 1/2 x 1/3 x 1/2 = 1.33 shieldorcs
hw-shieldgoblins kill 1.33 / 16 x 5 = 0.42 shieldorcs

hw-shieldgoblins are better yet again. I truly am a munchkin, but it's nice to finally see mathematic support favouring the shieldgoblins.

Potentially speargoblins are awesome though, so you shouls allways take spears instead of handweapons and no shield. 9 wide is the max. though. Versus my regular opponents, 7 would be the max

I don't do special characters, but ones I have that old model glued together, I'm really gonna use Grom. The nostalgia :D ... I would consider him very much underpowered for my purposes if two of my regular opponents didn't play elves.

Lord Dan
30-06-2009, 21:04
Ten man ranks are a horrible idea.

Shiodome
01-07-2009, 00:22
if you're playing all goblins, you might as well for a luagh and the 'that unit looks COOL!' factor. it's not like a unit of 60 goblins 10x6 is gonna leave you short of points elsewhere.

Lord Dan
01-07-2009, 00:25
That's also twice at many points for a unit that will do only marginally better than the standard 30-35 gobbos in a 5x6 formation. Goblins shouldn't try to maximize attacks.

Cragum
01-07-2009, 11:24
i use grom the paunch in my games and no one complains to be honest with you. he is a special who would not be a major threat to everyone having to go in against him but it doesnt mean to say he isnt good for what points he is.

he is a very different charchter in my opinion but make sure you always have another wolf chariot to join him when going for units larger than 2 ranks or maybe even with 2 ranks. you need to hope you get a good amount oif d6 when you hit in with him. plus his killing blow works a treat against armoured enemies such as brets and WOC.

as for bows i ignore them due the fact they are crap in my eyes :D

my army is full of fanatics and special units such as black orcs and spear chukkas. if you wanrt to kill stuff for cheap get a spear chukka. it can in two turns even when a bit unlucky get its points back.

my mate hate me using them because they have dwarves and the more exspensive artillery. plus rock lobbers are a prone device if you good with your distances. with what you buy a unit of archers you could have quite a few good war machines even if they take up a special choice. in a 2000pts list you could get easily a unit of black orcs, rock lobber, wolf chariot, and 2 spear chukkas.

plus give your orc boss if you have one with battlebrew and watch as a bunch of black orcs go mental for the game and essentially nail anything they want on a roll of 5-6 they get frenzy and hatred.

goblins are there to soak up the attacks and be thrown infront of better units.

hope this all helps!

cheers muchos cragum

Shiodome
01-07-2009, 14:34
That's also twice at many points for a unit that will do only marginally better than the standard 30-35 gobbos in a 5x6 formation. Goblins shouldn't try to maximize attacks.

if you want to min/max a list go play another army. if you're playing goblins it's because you pick stuff based on thinking it's cool. and 60 goblins would look cool.

rtunian
01-07-2009, 14:50
this thread is asking for good advice.
putting 60 goblins in a unit is horrible advice.

while it's one thing to play o&g knowing that you are handicapped army-wise, it's another thing altogether to not even try to win. sure, "fun" is the point of the game, but i don't know anyone who has fun getting massacred time and time again.

Cragum
01-07-2009, 15:31
if you want to min/max a list go play another army. if you're playing goblins it's because you pick stuff based on thinking it's cool. and 60 goblins would look cool.

sorry but thats just Rtarded to do that, a unit of 60 goblins when you can have 3 units with more mobilty and tru they dont have rank bonus but imagine your ten ranks of goblins flee o no youve lost have a goblin army for being Rtarded...

besides night goblins have 1 less leadership but they get the nice little perks of netters and FANATICSą did i hear cheese :evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin:

Da GoBBo
01-07-2009, 18:17
Are you mad? Fanatics can never ever be beardy. It might potentially be the best damagedealer in the game, but it's also the least reliable unit there is. No, Although I do think they can be part of your plan (control enemy movement), they are just an asset just as all the other stuff we have.

Netters are fantastic, one of the best thing in the book ... in conjuction with some other stuff (shield boyz)

60 gobbo's is indeed a bit retarted. I run 20 per unit at the moment. This makes em survive just long enough to throw their nets and win the day. My orcs come in 30 :D If they slay all the goblins (95 points, woohoo) I still have all of them.

Lord Dan
01-07-2009, 19:21
if you want to min/max a list go play another army. if you're playing goblins it's because you pick stuff based on thinking it's cool. and 60 goblins would look cool.

I'm a huge advocate of fluffy armies, but unfortunately 60 goblins in a unit isn't remotely practical. I'm hardly asking him to "min/max" by suggesting he cut that number in half.