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View Full Version : New to Vampires, would like some C&C for tournament play!



Saviour
29-06-2009, 09:33
Hey guys,

Been a rather long time WHFB player, initially played Wood Elves but then wanted to collect an army which I could, for fluff reasons, justify making a large force to play in campaign-style battles, so I went Empire. After losing quite a bit with Empire I was a little disenchanted and now want to play one of the "top tier" armies.

I like the look of Vampires because their heroes are so incredibly powerful in both raw strength and magic ability, and their ability to raise + charge in one magic phase really has me excited as I haven't played a really magic-heavy army before.

Below is my initial list without looking at any suggestions on forums, but already there are a couple of things I'm worried about which I will list after the roster:

LORDS

Vampire Lord: Master of the Black Arts, Dark Acolyte, Skull Staff, +1 Magic Level, Helm of Commandment, Lord of the Dead (445)

HEROES

Vampire: Supernatural Horror, Dread Knight (150)

Vampire: Lord of the Dead, Dark Acolyte, Flayed Hauberk (170)

Necromancer: Corpse Cart w/ Balefire, 1 Extra Spell, Book of Arkhan (180)

CORE

5 Dire Wolves (40)

10 Skeleton Warriors: Full Command (100)

10 Skeleton Warriors: Full Command (100)

10 Skeleton Warriors: Full Command (100)

SPECIAL

20 Grave Guard: Full Command, Banner of the Barrows (315)

3 Fell Bats (60)

5 Black Knights: Barding, Full Command, Royal Standard of Strigos (215)

RARE

Black Coach (200)

3 Cairn Wraiths: Banshee (175)

TOTAL: 2250pts

So my main concerns with this list:

1) Is the starting level of 10 good enough for the core skellie units? I want to run skellies as opposed to the other choices due to minor fluff reasons but am wondering if I should at least buff one or two up to fifteen to begin with.

2) I don't particularly like the Varghulf as a rare choice mainly because it just seems a little too fragile for me for a 175pt monster, but do people find the Black Coach or Varghulfs are better? I like the Coach because it augments my magic defence by removing my opponent's 6s and it doesn't really matter if my PD are stolen since I have so many!

3) The Fell Bats are there because I thought they'd be good for march blocking/warmachine hunting, but they also seem very fragile. Are they worth their points?

4) Lastly, are my characters decked out properly? The main vamp will hang with a retinue of 10 Skellies behind the main Skellie-GG-Skellie front line and just cast, while the foot vamp will most likely hang with the GG and the mounted vamp will either sit with the Black Knights or Dire Wolves.

But yeah, thanks in advance, looking forward to your replies!

Ultimate Life Form
29-06-2009, 09:43
2) I don't particularly like the Varghulf as a rare choice mainly because it just seems a little too fragile for me for a 175pt monster, but do people find the Black Coach or Varghulfs are better? I like the Coach because it augments my magic defence by removing my opponent's 6s and it doesn't really matter if my PD are stolen since I have so many!

The general consensus seems to be that the Varghulf is better for various reasons, including his quicker movement and the ability to survive S7 hits. The Coach isn't bad either though. I feel that all the Rare Choices are good at what they do and which will serve you best depends on your playstyle. Try keeping the Varghulf away from missile fire and march him into the enemy's flank together with the Dire Wolves. That's what it does best. Don't expect wonders though; it's a support unit. The Coach on the other hand is pretty straightforward. When it charges, you better hope it breaks the enemy or it will quickly crumble.

3) The Fell Bats are there because I thought they'd be good for march blocking/warmachine hunting, but they also seem very fragile. Are they worth their points?

The same applies here: Not great, but decent. If you manage to keep them in cover avoiding enemy shooting, they are a pain in the opponent's side and can take out War machines. If you're not 100% cool with them, you can drop them though for they aren't a necessity.

Saviour
30-06-2009, 06:55
Cheers for the words of advice mate. Any comments on the character builds?

Gaargod
30-06-2009, 13:06
I'm slightly doubtful of the vampire on horsey. Personally i would say swap him for the ultra cheese banner: Wight King BSB, barded horse, heavy armour, ahield, Drakenhof Banner. Stick him in the Grave Guard, and you have an extremely solid bunker of death (wight king because he's hard as nails, with T5, 2+ armour and 3 wounds). Costs almost a 100pts more, but this is life.

Personally i would drop the banshee from the wraiths. Extra 50pts to lose some attacks and gain screams. So if you're looking for points...

Not a fan of the black coach. I'd say another unit of wraiths (and buff both of them up to 4 strong) will do better.

The fell bats are okay, but not brilliant tbh. Again, if you need points...

Obviously it's always preferable to have a few more skeles in the 2 non bunker units but with a caster lord you should be fine. (who could, it must be said, do with some sort of save (maybe crown of the dammed, stupidity isn't a big deal at LD10, and your other vampire is already using Flayed Hauberk. Skull Staff is good, but even if he's sitting in a bunker its not impossible at all for a lucky attack to get him. Costs more too, but that's up to you.)

Slyde
30-06-2009, 17:40
10 strong can be risky. An opponent with good shooting or magic can concentrate on a unit and take it out on the first turn before you have had a chance to buff their numbers. Losing either front line skelly unit (I'm assuming the third is a bunker, so drop all command but the champ) will leave a gap that exposes your general.

I used to start my units small and buff during the game, but I found I was always playing catch-up. Since I began starting my units bigger my magic phase is actually much more dangerous because I have the option of buffing or using the offensive spells. My opponents have a lot more trouble knowing when to throw dispel dice.

I find fell bats are much better at 5. That gives them enough size so that they will outnumber support units after combat, plus with 10 wounds, it gives you time to invoke after they lose a combat instead of them disappearing in one round.

Saviour
01-07-2009, 01:15
I see your point... Where would you suggest I find the points to buff the line skellie units? And what starting size do you think is best?

Kill-Freedom
01-07-2009, 07:19
10 strong can be risky. An opponent with good shooting or magic can concentrate on a unit and take it out on the first turn before you have had a chance to buff their numbers. Losing either front line skelly unit (I'm assuming the third is a bunker, so drop all command but the champ) will leave a gap that exposes your general.

I used to start my units small and buff during the game, but I found I was always playing catch-up. Since I began starting my units bigger my magic phase is actually much more dangerous because I have the option of buffing or using the offensive spells. My opponents have a lot more trouble knowing when to throw dispel dice.

I find fell bats are much better at 5. That gives them enough size so that they will outnumber support units after combat, plus with 10 wounds, it gives you time to invoke after they lose a combat instead of them disappearing in one round.

I usaully start with 3 x 10 men ghould sqauds, depending on what i fight, hand guns or long bows, i deploy my units, so the first turn, there safe form whatever can destroy them, before i summon

limkopi
01-07-2009, 12:38
You may have a large number of dice, but that doesn't mean that you should "squander" them on the Black Coach. Some of them will fail, and you need as much as possible to pump up your main line early on.

Supernatural Horror would probably be better if switched for Infinite Hatred.

Kill-Freedom
01-07-2009, 21:59
I suggest dropping the black coach and wraiths and going for a unit of blood knights, you will be able to get the easy with 375 points, also i think you should drop dread knight and Super natural horrer, and make the vamp a summoner also

1 vampire and 5 black knights, is pretty fragile, and you dont want to lose the things that keep your army going