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TooMad
29-06-2009, 16:49
This stems from the rules argument over Shrike infiltrating and beardy/cheesy combos in general.

Why don't more people just make it more clear what tier, or how competitive your list is. You don't have to give away the details of you list, or even what race you are playing. This isn't a tournament so saying you are going to bring a fun themed list then bringing a highly competitive list is just going to upset that player and probably your community.

Competitive lists still need to be practiced and this seems to be the only time I see this mentality used. Someone posts on the FLGS message board saying they have their 'Ard Boy list and they want to practice. You almost never see someone say I am bring my grot horde, genestealer cult, kroot mercs, or just saying their list is fun and themed. Granted these are probably as black and white as you can get and what one person might think of cheesy is totally not to someone else but at least you would have a better idea of what you are getting into.

For pick-up games you can always ask your opponent what level of play they are looking for. If you can only afford exactly 1850 points and then only barely so at least they know you are there to win.

senorcardgage
29-06-2009, 16:55
At my GW that I go to it's pretty obvious. You know exactly how tough the army will be as soon as you find out who you're against. Some guys always use cheesy armies, some guys always use weaker armies, but you almost never see the cheesy guys using fun lists.

You just gotta watch out with the new guys! :)

Fixer
29-06-2009, 17:21
"The game's the thing...The fun is what matters, not the victory. To glory in the defeat of another, to need that purchased pride, is to show you are incomplete and inadequate to start with." ~Iain M. Banks


To follow up on Mr' Banks' most excellent quote there.
I've found in general when people or a group of friends play, that even when the armies are mismatched or someone new is playing that at the very least the more experienced player will give advice in game or hints on how to make an army more competetive. Generally players learn quite quickly what makes or does not make a good army.

When it comes to cheese and things that basically make the game boring or one-dimensional people generally get tired or move onto something else.

Along with the game itself on of the things that makes 40k a nice long term hobby is improving your army and learning how best to run the forces available in your codex, especially if you are sticking to a theme,

and with friends laughing along regardless of whether if they win or lose you can enjoy yourself no matter the outcome of the battle.

However some people aren't in the game to play the game. They're in to win it at any cost and some are even willing to cheat in order to do it. In this case it can be very hard thing to make sure both players have fun. If he loses he didn't enjoy the game, if he wins he may have done so in a way that his opponent even wondered why he set up his army accross the table.

I've played some real jerks in my last decade of Wargaming. I've seen examples of people time wasting in tournaments because they know that if their opponent gets their next turn they'll lose. People that will shout and argue about RAW and not back down till they get their own way, the endless tirade of cheating bloody Eldar players. Nothing you can do will make that kind of game enjoyable for both players and there's the terrifying prospect of two of them fighting each other.

The secret to both players having fun in a game of 40k is more about attitude than army lists.

Bishop Rook
29-06-2009, 17:24
Nah, take a cheesy list. Remember you're not forced to play competitively, even if you have a cheesy list. No list is so cheesy that it'll auto-win if you're not trying. Use double-lash to make your opponent's units do a line-dance. Use seer-councils to epically wade through ranks of gaunts before succumbing to the avalanche of bodies. Etc.

And more importantly, it'll mean you all learn how these cheesy builds work and what tricks they have. So when you're playing against someone who is playing competitively you won't be surprised.

Mannimarco
29-06-2009, 17:39
fixer, i like that quote, mind if i sig it?

i ususually play fluffy/friendly lists, yeah i can take 2 winged nurgle princes to lead my death guard, dont do it often though as its considered cheesy..... so i often just take a lord and 10 termies! its fluffy and fun!

daemons i play pure nurgle, theyre gonna do nothing in hand to hand but i always run a GUO with 3 winged armoured nurgle princes and epi so that list is considered fluffy/friendly and competitive

Leviathan2009
29-06-2009, 17:45
I currently use Iyanden, and it is a new list for my local community, so people see or hear that I use 3 Wraithlords they instantly cry out "cheese!" but yesterday I played one of the best games of 40K I have ever played. It came down to a single kill point difference at the end of the game. And some of the people around the table took back their statement when they saw how fast the wraithlords were taken out to all of the plasma fire, havoc's and power fists.

There are people at my local GW store that I would rather not play against since they always bring armies that are not fun to play against. The other day I was sitting down painting, when someone wanted to play me in a game, so I brushed them off saying that I wanted to paint. About 10 minutes later someone else, who is fun to play against, asked me for a game and I was happy to play that game.