PDA

View Full Version : Charging after fleeing skirmishers



VC Billy
29-06-2009, 19:47
A buddy and I have been trying to come to a consensus on how this works.

He places a unit of skinks on the right or left side of an infantry unit with only one skink visible an 1 inch in front of the most right (or left) model. This prevents the unit from charging any other unit or in most cases from moving at all. With the only option being to charge the skinks, I declare it. This is where it gets confusing. The BRB seems to indicate that when charging after fleeing skirmishers that you must turn to face the center of the fleeing unit (which turns the charging unit about 45 degrees to the left or right) and move your full move that direction. It seems to me I would only need to move in the original charge direction. Which in this example would be straight forward. Any insight?
:wtf:

stripsteak
29-06-2009, 20:19
i think it's kinda half and half. you move toward the intended target as if you were charging, this means you would need to wheel toward the current position of the skinks, but you would only need to wheel the minimum to reach a single skink, you aren't forced to wheel to face the center of the group.

jaxom
29-06-2009, 21:04
You got a rules reference for that, Stripsteak?

I'm not aware of any rule that changes the flee/pursue rules for skirmishers. I agree that you are correct if they take the charge but barring a special rule for when they flee I would say that you chase center-to-center just like you would any other unit and the direction they flee is explicitly covered in the BRB FAQ... http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m470856_Warhammer_FAQ_2008-02_Edition.pdf

You declare the charge. He declares a flee. The closest visible skirmisher (the one you have to contact when you charge) flees from your center. Everyone else flees the same distance in the same direction. Now unless there is a specific exemption for chasing skirmishers in the BRB that I am not recalling, you chase toward their center which does, as Billy notes, drag you off in a random direction. Kinda makes sense since you just whipped your boys into a frenzy to go kill the skinks (you know, the ones you just charged).

Skirmishing skinks are an incredibly valuable screening unit for this reason. There are ways to deal with them (mostly shooting or fast units like cav) which knock them off the table at the cost of a turn or two. But yeah, you got the ruling right as far as I know, Billy.

stripsteak
30-06-2009, 00:04
you don't chase toward the center, a failed charge move is moved exactly like a charge, you just move your move distance and not double. pg 21. so you would only have to charge at the nearest visible skirmisher.

xragg
30-06-2009, 00:19
You dont have to chase center to center, thats used to determine "enemy in the way". The only requirement for a failed charge is, "moved directly towards the intended target as if it were charging." Basically, the charger (even the failed ones) must endeavour to bring maximum models into combat on both sides. Usually, this will sort of center the unit to the one it charged, but it is not a guarantee. This point is moot though, since the OP asked about skirmishers. The only requirement for charging skirmishers, is that you come into base contact with the closest skirmisher. So, step by step, this is how you would resolve this:

1. Block unit announces charge against skirmishers.
2. Skirmishers declare they will flee.
3. Skirmishers flee.
4. Before the block unit moves, an imaginary line is drawn from the center of charging unit to the center of the fleeing skirmishers. If another target is in this line, the block unit is allowed to declare a charge (as written in the enemey in the way section of the FAQ).
5. After all this resolves, then move the block unit. If they are going to fail a charge on the fleeing skirmishers, they only have to wheel enough to clip the closest model.

Skirmishers can indead be a pain to blocked units, but they are not necessarily going to spin in circles as your entry makes it seem. If you somehow got most of you skirmishers behind/flank of a unit though, it would force them to spend most (or all) of the failed charge movement wheeling. A good incentive to not let skirmishers get behind you if you cant deal with this.

jaxom
30-06-2009, 08:22
That's a very interesting interpretation of pages 21 and 22 and doesn't agree with graphic 22.2.

The exact wording is "The unit is moved directly towards the intended target..." No exception there for where the target was. This is reinforced in the final pane of 22.2 where it explicitly calls for you to get as close to the fleeing unit as possible. The reference that xragg put in italics is intended to prevent you from turning in place or from wheeling multiple times as you are still "moving as charging".

The same is true for a unit whether it escapes or not. Under the heading "Caught" on page 22 the charging unit moves through the final position of the fleeing unit.

Rules for skirmishers on page 65-67 do not provide any exemptions to this. You are correct that they define how you move to contact... Closest model in LoS and all that goodness as clarified in the FAQ linked in my first post. Nothing changes how you pursue a fleeing unit though.

Heck, if you stuck a block just in front of a unit so that your corner prevented them from moving or charging, the same rules would apply. The center of your unit could still be well outside their charge-arc and the result would be the same. Try it with fast cav sometime.

jaxom
30-06-2009, 08:39
I should add that per the FAQ, xragg's step 3 can be elaborated.

The model which would be charged (closest in line of sight) turns and moves directly away from the center of the charging unit. The rest of the unit then moves the same distance in the same direction. This keeps you from putting the center of a unit of skirmishers well to the flank of a unit and effectively fleeing sideways which is actually more of a constraint than is applied to a unit of ranked fast-cav.

VC Billy
02-07-2009, 20:17
You guys made all the same points we did in discussion, but the FAQ pointer was great. Thanks!

Rooze
04-07-2009, 12:19
isn't it also true that if in this situation, if the skirmishers manage to outrun the unit (and thus causing the unit's charge to fail), that the unit is allowed to NOT wheel (or only wheel PARTIALLY) towards the skirmishers and run straigh ahead instead? And if able to reach another unit that way, redirect also?

Masque
04-07-2009, 13:25
A failed charge must be made in such a way as to get as close as possible to the intended target. Check out the Failed Charge rules on page 21 and diagram 22.2 in the BRB.

Chicago Slim
05-07-2009, 15:18
Note that, against skirmishers, making contact with any single model WILL bring you into combat with as many models as possible (because of the way in which skirmishers move). Against fleeing troops, making contact will any single model will also bring you into combat with as many models as possible (because the unit will immediately be removed).

Against ANY opponent, you're allow to waive the "as many as possible" rule, if it makes the difference between succeeding or failing the charge.


Not that any of this really impacts the original question... which is a gruesome little hack. I don't recall anything that over-rules the normal charge / failed charge rules (at most one wheel, and you must try to complete the charge-- which, as noted above, means making contact with exactly one model of the fleeing unit), even if you have no LOS to the target when the Move Chargers sub-phase comes around... So, send the question to GW, and maybe they'll FAQ it.