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View Full Version : Ethereal Vs. Etheral Movement?



Hragnar Goreskull
01-07-2009, 16:54
Last night during our friendly Wfb game of WoC Vs. VC we had a situation arise that needs some Warseer help. I searched the forums but found nothing definitive.

My Nurgle Sorcerer casts Cloying Quagmire on a unit of Black Knights and the spell states that it does not have any effect on Ethereal special rules.

Black Knights are have Ethereal Movement and cant have anything that effects their movement, such as spells or effects, but they are not same as the rulebook Ethereal (only magic does damage). Cloying doesnt effect movement, just harms the unit. Also saw that Pit of Shades is a similar spell to this.

The Fluff of the ethereal movement would suggest that they cant be sucked down into the mud due to this, but then again they aren't truly Ethereal as the game rule is concerned? To move the battle along we just said that Cloying had no effect until we could clarify this somewhere?

Any help from you all would be greatly appreciated. :skull:

Loq-Gor
01-07-2009, 17:24
Black Knights are not ethereal, they only get the ethereal movement rules. That said if the spell causes damage then it doesn't matter if the unit is ethereal or not as the only thing that harms ehtereals is magic or magical effects and attacks, and combat rez. So as long as the spell does damage they suffer it, as would wraiths, spirit hosts, the Green Knight, or a vampire with the Spectral Form power. If the spell has an aditional movement affect, then assuming they survive they get to ignore that.

Think of it this way, it's magic mud sucking them down. They can run away later, but not before the mud has a chance to do it's damage.

Yrrdead
01-07-2009, 17:28
Well in the VC book there are actually two separate sections on pg. 48. One covers ethereal creatures and mainly deals with the rules to wound and close combat. The second section details ethereal movement and los. And after reading the entire text for Cloying Quagmire I'd have to say that Black Knights wouldn't be affected. The key for me is the following.

"This spell has no effect on units with Fly, Amphibious, or Ethereal special rules."

Considering that Fly and Amphibious are both movement based special rules it seems likely that Black Knights ethereal movement would similarly qualify.

2c

nosferatu1001
01-07-2009, 17:42
Do the Black Knights have "Ethereal" or not? If they do not have the rule then yes, they would be affected - the only exceptions are fly, amphibious or Ethereal as the rule states.

Loq-Gor
01-07-2009, 17:51
I was not aware the spell had that caveat. The does seem to make the question more logical, I probably should have figured it was something like that.

That said Black Knights and Skeletal Steeds do not have the ehtereal special rule.

I think I would favor Yrrdead's ruling but would most likely dice it off anyway.

EvC
01-07-2009, 17:54
Yep, you can suck em down!

Lord Yawgmoth
01-07-2009, 17:56
It is a bit silly, but yes, RAW they are effected.

(They do not have the special rule with the name "Ethereal", and thats all the spell cares about, just as nosferatu said)

Yrrdead
01-07-2009, 18:06
Hmm.

Pg 45 VC book.

"Insubstantial Steeds: For movement purposes only, a model mounted upon a Skeletal Steed is treated as Ethereal (see the box on page 48)....."

Which I know that EVC already knows. I'll dig around the FAQ's a bit.

rtunian
01-07-2009, 18:45
magic damage purposes are not movement purposes. no need to dig ;)

yes, it's silly that a unit which can go through impassable terrain should be damaged by mud, but for some semblance of rules balance, they drew the line at damage. you can chalk it up as another logically self-contradictory rule

jrodrag
01-07-2009, 23:28
I think I would actually chalk this one up to another badly researched rule. It definatly seems like Black Knights should not be affected but they definatly are. Probably just something that didn't come up in playtesting (if they even still do this) and the author didn't think about.

theunwantedbeing
01-07-2009, 23:37
Are black knights ethereal?
They count as it when they move.
But are they actually ethereal?
No.
So they are not immune to the spell.

It's really that simple.
Note that while the steeds are "ethereal"(when they move) the riders are not...so the riders would definitely be affected by the spell.

nosferatu1001
02-07-2009, 10:24
...which always makes you wonder how they make it through woods, surely the riders get caught up in trees ;)

Mid'ean
02-07-2009, 11:04
Or better yet. Going thru that castle wall and coming out the other side...:evilgrin: Mental picture of a bunch of knights splattered on the wall as the horses keep on going!!!!:wtf: