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Bitey
01-07-2009, 19:03
I should probably preface this by making clear that I am a fantasy nooby (don't even have any models) and the only person who I will be playing against is my brother in a non- competitive environment. We play for fun and are quite liberal when it comes to the rules - we've been through the army books with the pen o' doom and blithely altered the points costs and occassionally effects of magic items to make them more fun and worthwhile

(Its a real peeve of mine that GW rules writers seem, to my admittedly untrained eye, incapable of consistently relating a magic item's effectiveness with its cost- there are similar lapses in 40k (where its reactionary codex knee-jerk: 'oh noes we managed to make assault cannons a stupidly overpowered no brainer for competitive list making in 4th edition- solution, make rending less crazy (good) and make them hugely expensive (too far) but it seems much more marked in fantasy where there are some magic items where for the life of me I cannot see how a paid rules writer can type out a description, assign a points cost and seriously consider that anyone in their right mind would ever take said item.

Given that my limited personal experience is with Wood Elves, a few examples of these worthless magic items are the callach's claw- 25 pts to inflict a-1 ld penalty if you manage to kill someone with it- why not just go for a weapon that is actually going to kill an extra enemy than a hand weapon and still give you that -1 LD on the enemy? or the mind numbingness of 50pts for a 4+ ward save which shackles your character to within 6" of a wood.

The rules for magic arrows are also as a whole woefully imbalanced, on the one hand you have the Hail of Doom arrow, 30 pts spent that you're almost always going to find effective but then you have a succession of arrows that have interesting enough effects (hagbane, starfire, dragon tooth etc) but are vastly overcosted and ineffective given that for some reason the rules monkey decided to introdce a raft of additional impediments to combining magic bows and arrows in a manner that might just possibly making them overcosted and tactically viable, rather than overcosted and useless with the exception of the bow of Loren and Arcane Bodkins (incidentally there should be 2 costs for arrows really: 1 if you take the bow of Loren and a 2nd if you don't, one of the overiding problems with magic arrows is that at the end of the day, they're still a single strength 3 shot which in all liklihood isn't going to manage to wound anything for its jazzy magic effect to take place- firing 1 strength 3 armour save ignoring arrow a turn is not worth 25pts, firing 3,4 or even 5 with an alter highborn is.

Anyway this thread wasn't intended as a rant about the inadequacies of the Wood Elf army book and GW rules in general but rather to get some advice as to how best to implement a strategy I thought up. The concept is for the majority of an essentially magic and shooting heavy force to hunker down in a wood and pelt the enemy with arrows and spells whilst the speedier and more mobile second half of the army, skirmishes, avoiding combat and blocking marches whilst also perhaps attempting to take out enemy wizards and war machines. I plan to use tree singing to move woods together to make the 'fortress' creating a larger area from which WE abilities that require proximity to woods can benefit.

The rough manner in which I see the list taking shape (not sure how many points this would be be probably in the 2,000 to 2,500 area) is:

Forest Fortress Garrison force:
Spellweaver
spellsinger
BSB
2 units of glade guard
1 unit of eternal guard (to be joined by the BSB)
at least one counterattacky skirmish unit- dryads or wardancers

mobile skirmishing force:
scout noble?
scouts with banner of zenith
glade riders/ warhawks or both
an eagle or 2
waywatchers?

then whatever else I have points for, if anything!

In terms of magic equipment, I want to ideally attain magic and firepower superiority (not necessarily dominance) to the extent that my opponent feels compelled to come into the woods to get to grips with my more static units in the 'fortress' to this end its necessary that my opponent (who will probably be taking Brettonians/ empire) cannot just blast me to bits with magic so i was thiking to take the wand of wych elm on my spellweaver, along with a briarsheath (which I guess as armour, a spellweaver can't really take right? here's to you rules:p) and then probably a power stone to make my magic a bit more powerful. Then the spellsinger woul have the deepwood sphere to wump stuff when it tries to comes into my woody hideaway and maybe a befuddlement of mischiefs as a way to get in an extra bound spell that might draw a dispel die/ occasionally be useful and make up for my lack of other mages... The BSB I was going to give the previouslt maligned railarian's mantle (at Bitey world's knock down 30pts only price of course!) and possible a sword of might. I also want to take the Hail o' Doom to up my firepower- would have to be on the scout noble (if I take him).

Apologies for this all being a bit rambling but what I'm basically after is some advice as to how to best go about the strategy outlined above. I'm more motiveated by having fun than competitiveness I just like the theme of a lumering exasperated enemy swatting at uncatchable (and arrow firing) flies and being lured to its doom in the depths of the woods.

Most of my uncertainties spring from character selection, I'm not really sure what I need and what is superfluous. Could I perhaps have adequate magic without a spellweaver- allowing me to for example take a bow of loren highborn with the amber pendant and great weapon to give me extra firepower and a combat boost to the eternal guard? Do I need a BSB- because of my planned refused deploymen (with most of the army hiding out close together in one wooded area it seemed a good idea) Is the scout Noble necessary- the scouts and eagles will be disrupting marching fine on their own but he struck me as being a handy combat boost to deal with warmachines or perhaps flank/rear charge something in concert with eagles/ warhawks/ glade riders...

Witchblade
01-07-2009, 23:01
Firstly, you might want to condense your posts in the future.

Secondly, the main problem with that tactic is that you need a HUUUUUGE wood. Still, it's always good to be in a forest for wood elves, whether it is to treesurf your treeman or to cover your archers.

Bitey
02-07-2009, 09:52
Firstly, you might want to condense your posts in the future.

Secondly, the main problem with that tactic is that you need a HUUUUUGE wood. Still, it's always good to be in a forest for wood elves, whether it is to treesurf your treeman or to cover your archers.

Very true about that post needing to be somewhat shorter and sweeter, I'm afraid I definitely got distracted by magic item rage:rolleyes:

Would the wood (oh dear) really need to be so very huge though? We play with mainly grassy hills and trees as terrain so I'd probably have at least one wood within my deployment zone plus my free one which I can deploy right next to it and then if necessary treesing another one towards them. I'd have to get 2 units of Glade Guard, the eternal guard and my wardancers or dryads into the 'fortress' so thats only 4 units. Also i guess the wood doesnt have to be continous for the tactic to work as long as the individual woods are close enough to allow mutual support from the garrison units it should be ok

With deploying archers in woods, presumably they'd have to be within 2" of the edge in order to see and shoot out- even wood elves can only see a few metres through woods?

Another question what is the rules definition of a wood? tree-singing makes no mention to the size of the wood so if you've moved 2 woods into contact do they now become one wood for the purposes of tree singing? In simple linguistic terms you would of course define it as a single wood, you wouldn't describe at as 2 distinct woods that have moved together, its just a wood but I'm not sure how this would stack with the rules...

Witchblade
02-07-2009, 17:10
Woods cannot merge. If they have separate bases, they are separate woods.

What defines a wood is up to mutual agreement from the players.

WElves need to be within 2' of the edge to have LoS, yes.