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TroyJPerez
02-07-2009, 19:23
Does this result end combat completely or just not let the people in base contact with the giant fight back? It is worded a little weird. It says people who are in base contact who have not already attacked may not do so and that the giants side automatically wins by 2. So is combat ended or may others not touching the giant still attack but their side still loses by 2?

jwiv
02-07-2009, 19:33
Combat is ended. The base to base contact wording is to deal with combat that has progressed into additional rounds (where you run into initiative order).

TroyJPerez
02-07-2009, 20:02
I think its just worded badly then. Would make more sense if it said, Giant yells and Bawls, combat immediatly ends, nobody else attacks.

jaxom
02-07-2009, 20:08
Chaos Giant wording of Yell and Bawl does not say combat is ended. I dunno what it says in other army books, but for a Chaos Giant combat is *not* ended.

Obviously, if the only units who could attack are in b2b with the giant things end because all attacks are finished, but that's not the case when there are multiple units in the fight or units which fight in multiple ranks like spears.

If you are in a multi-unit combat it is possible for models not in base-to-base with the giant to continue swinging at other targets. Note that this also prevents your *own* units from swinging if they are in b2b with the giant as there is no exemption for them in the rule either.

Take the following fight:
w = warrior of chaos, banner
c = chosen of chaos, banner
G = Slannesh Giant of Chaos
T = enemy templeguard, full command
X's mark positions that could swing normally but cannot because of the Y&B.

Assume that the TG charge but the giant is ASF because of his mark.



TTTTT
TTTTT
TTTTT
TTTTT
XXXXT
wwwwXGGXcccc
wwwwwGGccccc


The Giant Yells and Bawls. Then one TG swings at the Chosen, say killing one. Then one Warrior swings, say he misses. Then one or two Chosen swing (I believe that you can claim the casualty as the one who could not swing because he is adjacent to the giant). Assume that the Chosen miss too.

Regardless of the result, the Giant's side wins by 2 and the TG must make a leadership check.

The result is that no TG have died, 1 Chosen has died. If you ran up normal CR you would find that both sides have US25, the TG have 3 ranks, standard and a wound while Chaos has 1 rank and standard and Chaos would lose by 2.

jaxom
02-07-2009, 20:23
For further clarification, a Kroxigor in a mixed skink unit is considered in b2b by his own rules and therefore cannot swing. Spearmen in the second (or third if you are elves) are not in b2b and can swing. The unit of frenzied knights on the other side of the target can still swing. Et cetera.

The best trick I have ever seen is piling a giant into the flank and a unit of 6 frenzied chaos knights into the front of a unit. The giant got Y&B on his ASF attack. The cavalry swung their 31 attacks and killed 17 models out of 20. The enemy stuck because he lost combat by 2, not 17 + flank + outnumber + standard.

rtunian
02-07-2009, 22:17
from the o&g book:

"neither the giant nor models in contact with him actually fight if they have not already done so this round. the giant's side automatically wins combat by 2 points"

this means that combat may be normal before the giant's attack, but after the giant rolls yell and bawl, no one that is touching him may take any actions for the rest of that combat round. if anyone else in that combat does get to attack, the results of those attacks are discarded when considering combat result, as the giant's side auto wins by 2 after yell and bawl.

Urgat
02-07-2009, 22:19
Combat is ended. The base to base contact wording is to deal with combat that has progressed into additional rounds (where you run into initiative order).

Hmm? No it's not, it's just anybody in b2b with it doesn't get to fight if they didn't do so already. The only thing that matters is that combat resolution is ignored.

Nuada
02-07-2009, 22:37
Never really looked closely at the wording before. That means if the giant charges a unit of human spearmen, rolls yell and bawl, then some of the spearmen may attack back.

I guess his smelly breath doesn't travel too far into the unit.

Urgat
03-07-2009, 07:19
Well, the rule doesn't actually say base to base, it says "in contact with". One might argue that if spearmen can attack the geant, it means they're somehow in contact with him... mmh... never thought of that before... ah well, I don't think it's worth opening this can of worms.

Zilverug
04-10-2009, 09:43
Do War Banners or the Rune of Battle modify the combat result after Yell and Bawl, so combat is lost by one instead of two?

I guess not, but I can very well imagine they do...

Da GoBBo
04-10-2009, 09:59
Well, the rule doesn't actually say base to base, it says "in contact with". One might argue that if spearmen can attack the geant, it means they're somehow in contact with him... mmh... never thought of that before... ah well, I don't think it's worth opening this can of worms.

Well, it says models being in contact. The only proper way for models to make contact is btb contact.

EvC
04-10-2009, 11:27
Well contact could mean something more vague, but the Chaos FAQ does indeed confirm in a roundabout way that it does mean base to base contact (As it mentions a combat where two opposing Giants Yell and Bawl- which would be impossible if the combat immediately ended and no-one else got to strike as soon as the first Giant Yelled).

WLBjork
05-10-2009, 05:06
Do War Banners or the Rune of Battle modify the combat result after Yell and Bawl, so combat is lost by one instead of two?

I guess not, but I can very well imagine they do...

Nope - the phrase "regardless of combat results" already covers this :skull:

Grimgormx
05-10-2009, 18:29
I think that the rules of spears says that they count as being btb if the spearmen in the front is in btb contac, and as the giant yells, all miniature in contact dont attack, so 2nd or 3er line of spear cant attack, because they count as being BtB

stripsteak
05-10-2009, 18:49
no the rules for fighting in ranks doesn't include that clause. the ranks can attack if they are behind a model that is in combat to it's front. but no where does it say these ranks count as being in b2b.

however the rules for kroxigors do.

EvC
05-10-2009, 19:31
Yeah, let's not bother guessing rules.