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Shadowfax
03-07-2009, 04:58
Do you assess LoS from the unit as a whole, or from individual models within the unit?

So, in the attached picture, does every model in the firing unit get to shoot, or only the two rightmost models in the front rank?

Drachen_Jager
03-07-2009, 05:51
Two models in the shooting unit may fire. Otherwise it would lead to all sorts of shenanigans, like putting your handgunners behind your swordsmen so that just one handgunner poked his head out.

Necromancy Black
03-07-2009, 07:02
Only the models that can see are allowed to shoot. So in that case only 2 models may shoot.

Note that for things have have random affects from shooting (like warmachines, most skaven units) you don't roll if you can't see (so no misfiring if you don't have LOS)

narrativium
03-07-2009, 10:42
Take Leadbelchers for a further example, as they suffer several effects from firing. Let's say some of the models are just out of range. They therefore can't fire, so they don't roll for a number of shots, and can't misfire.

I'm okay with them being unable to fire again until those who have fired have reloaded. That saves on markers.

What if none of them could fire? None of them rolled an artillery dice, none of them risked misfiring. They still have to reload?

Flogger
03-07-2009, 12:47
When it comes to leadbelchers you roll amount of shots before you check range, so they can die from misfire even if they're out of range. That's what I think at least. You roll to hit, then check range, then roll to wound.
Worst missile unit in the game IMO..

nosferatu1001
03-07-2009, 13:54
However this isnt range, it is LOS. If you dontg have LOS you dont shoot at all.

Milgram
03-07-2009, 14:54
no LOS no fire.

as for the diagram above: the arc of sight for the individual models is 45 from the corner, not 90 from the center of the front, so your V lines should start at the middle of each model instead from the front (the unit-V is correct).

WLBjork
04-07-2009, 09:21
When it comes to leadbelchers you roll amount of shots before you check range, so they can die from misfire even if they're out of range. That's what I think at least. You roll to hit, then check range, then roll to wound.
Worst missile unit in the game IMO..

Page 26 says if you're out of LoS you automatically miss, not that you don't fire.

My interpretation is that you'd still roll, even for those out of LoS.

Yrrdead
04-07-2009, 09:28
This is covered in the BRB FAQ. Pg 2 Top Right Hand Side , 1st paragraph.

"Q:If a model does not have line of sight to a target the rest of the unit is shooting at must the model shoot (missing automatically), or does it not shoot at all?

A: It does not shoot at all. This question is, of course, only relevant if there is a chance for the firing model to be hurt by its own weapon. "

WLBjork
05-07-2009, 07:21
Ah, forgot to check Q&A. Bit annoying they used the exact same wording for being out of LoS and out of range in that case.

squighound
05-07-2009, 22:37
I also play that you can't wound targets that are out of LoS, for example if one model can fire 6 hits, but only "see" 1 model, all hits are resolved against that model, rather than any other models in the formation.

Necromancy Black
06-07-2009, 00:28
I also play that you can't wound targets that are out of LoS, for example if one model can fire 6 hits, but only "see" 1 model, all hits are resolved against that model, rather than any other models in the formation.

I don't think this is supported by the rules at all.

nosferatu1001
06-07-2009, 00:44
It isn't - it's a nice houserule, but nothing more.

Squighound - if you play a houserule it's good if you can state it as such, so it doesn't confuse other posters. :)

Gazak Blacktoof
06-07-2009, 09:52
I thought he did- "I also play that..." / "The rules say that..."

Anyway, as you say, its a decent house rule.

narrativium
06-07-2009, 10:01
If the model can only see one target model, wouldn't they then suffer the -1 to hit for firing at a single model?

Milgram
06-07-2009, 10:56
no, because the model is not in skirmishing formation.

Chicago Slim
06-07-2009, 14:58
I know that we're all doing a good job of keeping this thread on target, talking about LOS and how it affects *shooting*.

But, I thought it might be worth mentioning that the rules for how LOS affects *charging* are quite different (specifically: the unit *can* charge, even if only one model has LOS to the target).

Avian
06-07-2009, 17:03
(specifically: the unit *can* charge, even if only one model has LOS to the target).
Which is a good thing since it would otherwise be very odd if a unit with more than one rank could only charge with the front rank. :D