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Johan Chill
03-07-2009, 20:56
What follows is a brief run down of my army list. It's based around the unity of three brothers who are called together to defend the forest during the colder months.




Through the long winter months, the forest of Athel Loren is at its lowest ebb, made dormant and vulnerable through the cycle of seasons...
it is during this time that the elves must be most vigilant, for the forest must be protected.


Few take this responsibility more seriously than Finw of the Tularin Clan. Eldest amongst his siblings, it is he who is most involved in the affairs of elves, and best regarded amongst his peers. It is also he who leads the brothers. Stoic, yet cunning, he is a well regarded general and dangerous opponent.

Wood Elf Highborn: Longbow, Great Weapon, Light Armour,
Amber Pendant and Annoyance of Nettlings.
214 points.

20 Eternal Guard: Eternal, Musician, Standard Bearer.
270 points

21 Eternal Guard: Eternal, Musician, Standard Bearer
w/ Gaemrath - the Banner of Midwinter.
332 points

Fanor, the youngest, is extremely loyal to his elder siblings. A horseman that few, amongst his kin, can match, he rides to prove himself to those whom he respects. Whether ready for war, or summering in the depths of the forest, it is very difficult to find him parted from his loyal steed, or the equally loyal band of men and women that fight alongside him.

Wood Elf Noble: Longbow, Spear, Light Armour, Shield, Helm of the Hunt and
Hail of Doom Arrow mounted on an Elven Steed.
143 points.

5 Glade Riders: Musician.
129 points.

5 Glade Riders: Musician, Horsemaster.
138 points.

Maedhros is a ghost to both enemy and ally. His life has been one of near constant conflict, and it is unlikely he, or his men, would ever be able to function in elven society again; nor would they ever choose to do so. In battle, it has become rare for him to even consult his brothers in terms of strategy, and he simply appears to fight before disappearing once more to form a vanguard for the Winter Guardians.

Waywatcher Kindred Noble: Longbow, Additional Hand Weapon
and a Blight of Terrors
164 points.

9 Waywatchers.
216 points.

9 Waywatchers.
216 points

Though weakened during these months, Athel Loren is far from helpless. As suits its purpose, the forest often rises in aid of the three brothers. As the decades of diligent stewardship have continued, the forest has grown to trust, and perhaps even value Finw, Fanor and Maedhros.

Level 1 Branchwraith: A Cluster of Radiants.
140 points

12 Dryads.
144 points.

12 Dryads.
144 points.


Total: 2'250 points, 12 deployments.

The Summary:
Characters - 29.4% (661pts), 4 deployments.
Core – 51.4 % (1'157pts), 6 deployments.
Special – 0 %(0pts), 0 deployments.
Rare – 19.2% (432pts), 2 deployments.


This list has a way to deal with most things if I'm clever with it. I don't think it's possible to make an Asrai list, at this points level anyway, that is perfectly capable of taking on every archetype. It's friendly to composition judgement, which is very important to me. It also highlights what I really enjoy about elvish armies: highly trained, yet few, soldiers. Elves spend decades, or even centuries, honing their skills, and I love to see that represented. Sure you end up with a very outnumbered force, but you were going to be outnumbered anyway; it makes a win or draw more heroic.
18 Waywatchers is probably a little controversial, but I think that my opponent will forgive me, given the force as a whole. I also think that, if they're placed right, they will be a nightmare to deal with. The remaining three choices are very mutually supportive and will play as such. The first strategy that comes to mind is using the Eternal Guard to anchor one flank and the center, while the Glade Riders and Dryads systematically advance through the other flank. Complications to that are pending on my opponent and deployment.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Kill-Freedom
03-07-2009, 21:49
Dont mind the list, but i am not a fan of waywathers, should consider dropping these men for wild riders :D

OH and any sort of magic would tear it up

Johan Chill
05-07-2009, 01:14
Why do you dislike Waywatchers, may I ask?

Kill-Freedom
06-07-2009, 09:04
Why do you dislike Waywatchers, may I ask?

Far too expensive for what they do, and havent got as many uses

the gribbly
07-07-2009, 00:13
Johan, I really like the list and the background. Great job. I have utilized 2x8 waywatchers several times in the past and find that while they can be really fun and sometimes do amazing things, 2 units of 9 may be too much as they will often underperform, especially considering you have a third forest stalker deployment option in your waywatcher hero. So, without messing with the lists background too much here is what I would suggest:

Highborn really needs gwythercs horn. It would be a shame to lose nearly 600 vps including your general to a single terror test. Also, another good kit for the HB is a gw, amber pendant, oaken armor, gwythercs horn.

The EG units are the heavy lifters of this list. Make sure they are tooled out:

The highborns EG unit needs the warbanner. I would find points for this and the horn by dropping gaemrath (I really liked the banner too but in gameplay its pretty worthless IME).

Definately trade the branchwraith out for a BsB for the second EG unit, giving each a reroll and static res of 6. One dispel dice is not worth 140 pts and a BsB is mandatory in this list IMO. SotCM or amaranthine brooch + sword of might is a good kit for him.

Dryads are awesome but your army is almost begging for a couple wardancer units! You are currently lacking any serious punch in this list and an all elf army would probably fit your theme better, idk. Also another themed character option could be a wardancer brother, possibly with resplendence and fimbulwinter shard, or even the other more common combos like moonstone, blades, AoN, etc.

Lastly, if you did decide to drop a waywatcher unit you could go with 1 unit of 8 waywatchers and pick up 2x10 glade guard for a more effective, if less fluffy, shooting phase, allowing you to mitigate your opponents support units and draw units towards your anvils better. This would also free up a rare slot to prybar a great eagle into (absolutely gold in this type of list).

Thats about it. Either way very cool list and one of the reasons wood elves still have the greatest book out IMO. Its not greatly competative but definately challenging and fun to play with and against as well. Again, all are just suggestions, good luck to you. -grib

Johan Chill
07-07-2009, 04:09
Far too expensive for what they do, and havent got as many uses

I think this may have come down to personal taste then, and I would like to give them a try with at least one unit.


Johan, I really like the list and the background. Great job. I have utilized 2x8 waywatchers several times in the past and find that while they can be really fun and sometimes do amazing things, 2 units of 9 may be too much as they will often underperform, especially considering you have a third forest stalker deployment option in your waywatcher hero. So, without messing with the lists background too much here is what I would suggest:

Highborn really needs gwythercs horn. It would be a shame to lose nearly 600 vps including your general to a single terror test. Also, another good kit for the HB is a gw, amber pendant, oaken armor, gwythercs horn.

The EG units are the heavy lifters of this list. Make sure they are tooled out:

The highborns EG unit needs the warbanner. I would find points for this and the horn by dropping gaemrath (I really liked the banner too but in gameplay its pretty worthless IME).

Definately trade the branchwraith out for a BsB for the second EG unit, giving each a reroll and static res of 6. One dispel dice is not worth 140 pts and a BsB is mandatory in this list IMO. SotCM or amaranthine brooch + sword of might is a good kit for him.

Dryads are awesome but your army is almost begging for a couple wardancer units! You are currently lacking any serious punch in this list and an all elf army would probably fit your theme better, idk. Also another themed character option could be a wardancer brother, possibly with resplendence and fimbulwinter shard, or even the other more common combos like moonstone, blades, AoN, etc.

Lastly, if you did decide to drop a waywatcher unit you could go with 1 unit of 8 waywatchers and pick up 2x10 glade guard for a more effective, if less fluffy, shooting phase, allowing you to mitigate your opponents support units and draw units towards your anvils better. This would also free up a rare slot to prybar a great eagle into (absolutely gold in this type of list).

Thats about it. Either way very cool list and one of the reasons wood elves still have the greatest book out IMO. Its not greatly competative but definately challenging and fun to play with and against as well. Again, all are just suggestions, good luck to you. -grib

Thank you for your comments, both constructive and supportive. :)

Perhaps I could drop a unit of Waywatchers, the Dryads and the Dryad Hero for some Wardancers, Glade Guard and a Wardancer hero?

The Wardancers are another brother in the fold, while the Glade Guard form part of the Waywatchers team. It'll play out like this:

Characters:

Wood Elf Highborn: Great Weapon, Light Armour, Gwytherc's Horn,
Amber Pendant and Annoyance of Nettlings.
229 points.

Wood Elf Noble: Spear, Light Armour, Shield, Helm of the Hunt and
Hail of Doom Arrow mounted on an Elven Steed.
143 points.

Waywatcher Kindred Noble: Blight of Terrors
164 points.

Wardancer Kindred Noble: Blades of Loec.
140pts

Core:

20 Eternal Guard: Eternal, Musician, Standard Bearer.
270 points

21 Eternal Guard: Eternal, Musician, Standard Bearer w/ Warbanner.
307 points

5 Glade Riders: Musician.
129 points.

5 Glade Riders: Musician.
129 points.

10 Glade Guard: Musician.
126pts

10 Scouts: Musician.
176pts

Special:

10 Wardancers: Bladesinger.
194pts

Rare:

10 Waywatchers.
240 points


Characters: 676pts (30%)
Core: 1'137 (50%)
Special: 194pts (9%)
Rare: 240pts (11%)

Total: 2'247 points and 12 Deployments.

slingersam
07-07-2009, 11:48
I'm not going to lie to you. Your list in general is very underwhelming. I personally love the fluff, but your not optimizing your list at all. I like the terror bomb waywatcher noble but look at how much your spending on him and his unit (400 points just to scare your opponent) I love using waywatchers but that killing blow shot is not very useful as you will only get about 1 - 2 killing blow shots so they are only useful against heavy armored units. Now you have 2 units of eternal guard, they are very good at holding units right, but now what are you going to use to break the enemy that charges you. Pretty much your stuck their because your eternal guard aren't a unit breaker they are a unit holder. You are going to need either a treeman which is very unfluffy or a unit of wild riders which can work for you because they will be part of your second brother. Unless your wardancer is a highborn I find that he is practically useless because he can't take any good items and any weapon he can take is expensive. Taking a wood elf Highborn on great steed maybe better for you to run with while you take a noble with your eternal guard. A list I made up that might be a bit better than your current one if you want to look at it. I'm also assuming you don't want any forest spirits

Lord
Highborn - Wild rider kindred, dawn spear, armor of the fey, annoyance of netlings, and great stag - 340 points

Hero
Noble - Great weapon, light armor, amber pendant, Gwytherc's horn - 131 (this guy goes with the eternal guard)

Noble - Waywatcher, blight of terrors - 164

Core
5x Glade Riders - musician - 129
10x Glade Guard - 120
10x Glade Guard - 120
10x Scouts musician - 176
25x Eternal Guard - Full command, with banner of dwindling - 380

Special
5x Wild Riders - Full Command, war banner - 191 (Highborn goes here)
10x Wardancers - musician - 187

Rare
10x waywatchers - 240

With the above list, you still have relatively the same list, just made your Guy riding the horse the lord instead of a hero, you still have 654 points left. Now I would drop your waywatcher noble and think about taking an alter noble witht the standard equipment (great weapon, light armor/shield, Helm of the hunt, and hail of doom arrow - 158) he's cheaper and 10 times better. Plus with his speed he can be near the waywatchers with in turn 2. If you take my advice that leaves you with 660 points to play around with.

Things to think about is adding another unit of wild riders, and another unit of glade riders. I hope this information was useful. If you don't like any of the suggestions I would print this page and just throw it away. ;)

Johan Chill
07-07-2009, 14:46
How do you feel about the first list, in the OP? I had assumed a flank charge into unit held by EG would win a combat more often than not, even if it was with Glade Riders.

slingersam
07-07-2009, 17:48
Usually Glade Riders should not enter combat, as they are used as a bait and also as a march blocking unit. Glade Riders like to annoy your opponent not kill them, obviously if you have to charge into combat do so but don't expect to be breaking heavily armored troops. With your original list your going to be relying heavily on your waywatchers. They are a good unit on paper, but they tend to not perform well unless your versing characters in the open or 2+ armor save knights otherwise they're Killing blow shots or going to be useless. Also remember eternal Guard don't have that high of an armor and are toughness 3, so anything worth its weight in gold will cut through them. The only thing eternal guard have is being stubborn with noble in the unit, and have a high leadership. Have a BSB near by and you have rerollable leadership.

Now looking at you original list look at your Lord and your hero, you are only taking about 60 points worth of gear for your lord choice compare your lord choice to my hero choice in effectiveness they are almost he same but your paying almost 80 points more.

Johan Chill
08-07-2009, 13:27
But that 80 points more allows my Eternal Guard as Core, is that not worth it?

I should clarify that I have two main rules for this army. One, to have a character for each "group" of troops, and two, to have at least 50% Core troops for composition reasons.

Johan Chill
08-07-2009, 17:57
Excuse the double post, but I've also been playing around with another list. It's designed to be a highly disruptive, MSU, psychology list. I've played it wit proxies before and found, while it admittedly takes a lot of getting used to, it is very capable. Perhaps I should go for it instead?

CHARACTERS

Highborn: Additional hand Weapon, The Bow of Loren, Arcane Bodkins, Briarsheath, An Annoyance of Nettlings, Scout Kindred.
270pts

Noble: Waywatcher Kindred, Additional Hand Weapon, Blight of Terrors.
164pts

Noble: Waywatcher Kindred, Wraithstone, Additional Hand Weapon.
164pts

CORE

10 Eternal Guard: Musician.
126pts

10 Eternal Guard: Musician.
126pts

10 Eternal Guard: Musician.
126pts

10 Glade Guard: Musician.
126pts

10 Glade Guard: Musician.
126pts

6 Scouts: Musician.
108pts

6 Scouts: Musician.
108pts

5 Glade Riders: Musician.
129pts

5 Glade Riders: Musician.
129pts

5 Glade Riders: Musician.
129pts

SPECIAL

5 Wardancers: Bladesinger.
104pts

5 Wardancers: Bladesinger.
104pts

5 Wardancers: Bladesinger.
104pts

5 Wardancers: Bladesinger.
104pts

Kill-Freedom
14-07-2009, 09:28
EG are good but they arent a useful wood elf unit, regardless of what people say

Wood elves strenght is there speed, and EG dont have this, there just another rank and file troop with bad armour and low toughness

Johan Chill
15-07-2009, 17:17
EG are good but they arent a useful wood elf unit, regardless of what people say

Wood elves strenght is there speed, and EG dont have this, there just another rank and file troop with bad armour and low toughness

What about the obscene amount of attacks? It can also help to give your opponent a place to focus his line in order to predict his movements more effectively, no? Finally, they comp well.

Kill-Freedom
22-07-2009, 21:59
What about the obscene amount of attacks? It can also help to give your opponent a place to focus his line in order to predict his movements more effectively, no? Finally, they comp well.

No, it gives the opponent victory points, when he catches them, and thats not to hard

When i played wood elves, majority of games were me running around with fast cav and that, march blocking, luring etc, while shooting at them with 2 x 10 glade guard, deployed 25 back, thats a minimum of 4 turns for most troops (movement 4) to get to them, thats full marching (without being marched block)

So roughly 4 turns of shooting.... many games, there wasnt even any combats until turn 5, and when i engage an enemy it was always on my own grounds, with attacks by wild riders and the sort from multiple directions

Wood elves shouldnt be used in head on attacks.. and should always be able to out move ALL opponents