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-Ed
02-01-2006, 23:00
Whenever the topic of music comes up, people generally tend to have pretty strong opinions and I can accept that but whenever Hip Hop culture or more specifically Rap comes up the replies start getting quite nasty seemingly without justification. I was just curious, what is it that about Hip Hop that tends to elicit such a negative response from Warseer members ?

Chuffy
02-01-2006, 23:02
It's because they all like metal. They like someone shouting something into a microphone, rather than talking really quickly.

Xander-K
02-01-2006, 23:08
I like metal and rap, hip/hop so that argument is flawed.

devolutionary
02-01-2006, 23:15
It's general music elitism. Nobody can get over the fact that tastes differ. I love country/blues (good stuff, like Steve Earle, John Hiatt, etc..) and older R'n'B and Blues stuff, Muddy Waters and the like. However, my personal music is Metal. I don't like Hip-Hop or Rap, it just annoys me. I like guitars and bass and distortion and aggression without all the guns 'n hos lyrics that seem prevalent these days in that genre.

However while I may make jokes about my mates who listen to that stuff, I don't hate it. I don't see any reason to get nasty about another person's music just because it conforms to a certain genre. It's like racism, you instantly discount anybody of a certain ethnicity as having any worth simply because you've had issues with someone of the same heritage. It's retarded. Nuff said.

Hywel
02-01-2006, 23:24
In most cases, I think hip-hop is a little too popular and mainstream for the average wargamer who likes to feel apart from the unwashed masses.

"Alternative Poseur" if we're to be harsh, and yes I'm one of them.

Kelroth
02-01-2006, 23:26
As Hywel said, we just like to think that we're not like 'that sort' :P Although I believe Kohnna is a big proponent of hip-hop, I really should check that so I don't cause offence >_<

Chuffy
02-01-2006, 23:29
In most cases, I think hip-hop is a little too popular and mainstream for the average wargamer who likes to feel apart from the unwashed masses.

"Alternative Poseur" if we're to be harsh, and yes I'm one of them.

But...wargamers are unwashed masses who listen to Iron Maiden.

And Iron Maiden are very mainstream.

Tenoch
02-01-2006, 23:37
I like Hip Hop, well some, well 3 "artistes": Beastie Boys, Cypress Hill and Saul Williams...oh make that 4, I forgot Yello :evilgrin:

Sgt John Keel
02-01-2006, 23:43
It's general music elitism. Nobody can get over the fact that tastes differ.

I can at least. I just get agitated over that rap and pop gets all air time there is. Oh, metal gets a whole hour past midningt. Nice. :rolleyes:

So, just general irritation at being forced to listen to it all the time. And no, I don't decide what's playing at buses, on my sisters CD, in stores etc.

Edit: That's true, all the good rap/pop artists get no air time either.

/Adrian

devolutionary
02-01-2006, 23:44
But...wargamers are unwashed masses who listen to Iron Maiden.

And Iron Maiden are very mainstream.

We do? I've always thought of Maiden as a bit of a joke actually :p and I shower every damn morning, though I am a one man MASS, that bit you got right ;)

Seriously, there are far worse musical genres and bands out there than rap and hip-hop. Franz Ferdinand for example :D

Smoking Frog
03-01-2006, 04:03
Well, when the artists of a particular genre talk into a microphone about them earning lots of money, being oppressed and having lots of money, putting **** onto law enforcement, dealing drugs and having lots of money, it's not hard to see why a fair number of people become dissilusioned. When an eight year old kid with no musical experience or talent can sell bigtime, you start wondering things about the rap/hip hop genre...

But then you could say something similar about some metal bands... you can only bitch and moan about "teh evul J3bus" so many times...

The biggest thing is that the good rap/hip hop albums don't get any airtime at all. But then I don't like any of it anyway.

Sojourner
03-01-2006, 09:18
Rap is only music by the very vaguest definition. It's more like very crude poetry. That's not to dismiss it, it might well be good for some people, but it doesn't essentially fill the definition of 'music' very well.

Insane Alex
03-01-2006, 10:42
Rap makes me laugh. :P
Hoes and guns... right. I much prefer metal, music that is a bit complicated soundwise. Blind Guardian, Iced Earth, maybe some Iron Maiden to ease in, good stuff. And I'd say Iron Maiden is as mainstream as metal gets, but that isn't saying much. On that topic, HMV is teh sux. No Blind Guardian or Iced Earth, Opeth, Masterplan... nope.

Jedi152
03-01-2006, 10:45
I'm not overly keen on rap/hip hop, but mainly because of it's connection to "gangsta culture" which i hate in all forms and incarnations.

Luke
03-01-2006, 10:48
i loves my hip hop, and some rap too.

like a lot of cypress hill and house of pain, theyre dead good. i usually stay out of music threads caus there is a great deal of pointless music elitist blowhards here, but i felt inclined to stand for a music genre that is considered by many to be "sad"

insane in the brain for teh win!

Prince_Tyrion
03-01-2006, 11:50
I like Metal. I've been to see a fair few metal bands live. I also like hip-hop rap acts like Snoop Dogg, Jurassic 5, Cypress Hill, Everlast, Wu Tang Clan... I don't like overcommercialised ***** like 50 Cent.

Xander-K
03-01-2006, 12:00
to be fair though, most of the hip hop on tv is a pile of tripe, same goes for the rap.. most of the good stuff isn't as popular, same applies for most genres, the worst stuff in general that which is played on music tv channels most often.

There are a few exceptions to this rule, but not that many, hip-hop is especially guilty of this.

Brother Munro
03-01-2006, 12:08
I like metal and hip hop, especailly when they are together in the same song (Anthrax & Public Enemy) but in general I prefer old hip hop/rap, the new stuff just doesn't appeal.

redemptionist15
03-01-2006, 12:11
I think a lot of Hip-Hop and Rap culture is based around the gangsta lifestyle. Those who have the most bling, the most bitch's and the biggest blunts are the coolest. Its about how much of a "Bad-ass **************** you are!!11!!1" and its just sad. Its so cool to rap about shooting someone in gangsta rap.

Which is just pure testerone induced ********. It's so very "My cock is much bigger than yours" and i just find that annoying,stupid and generally despicable.

Those Rappers and Hip-hop artists with a bigger message than "Bling,bitches and blunts" get my respect and i can listen to. Thus my pallet is pretty much limited to Public Enemy,RATM, Dizzee Rascal and a bit of Beastie Boys.

And for those that said metal is about screaming down a mic, what is it with Hip-Hop and Rappers doing ape like "yeahs" and "urgh" what the hell is that about? :p

nanktank
03-01-2006, 12:18
:gulps: So many people out there liking rap & hip hop or heavy metal. Personally Im a dance music nerd, but I tolerate a bit of everything. Rap & hip hop is getting on my nerves though because of its all my favourite clubs have switched. Some if its insightful, most of it is verbal masturbation.

Sojourner
03-01-2006, 12:20
I can tolerate electronica, it's just that most of it feels totally soulless. It might as well have been written by a computer, I see no human element to it.

Xander-K
03-01-2006, 13:09
as i'm growing older, i'm finding my tastes lean towards music that makes you feel inspired, in a junkie fashion like if its not inspiring music i'll get annoyed.

Music I used to love doesn't move me the same way, I am feeling a constant need for "new hooks".

notdakuningist
03-01-2006, 13:55
Outkast, ceelo green, beastie boys, cypress hill, kid frost, easy E, and biggie are all good. Others are meh.
I also like a variety of other music styles.

Odin
03-01-2006, 14:30
Apart from the fact that I don't like most hip-hop or rap, the main problem I have with it is that a large proportion of it is mysogynistic, materialistic, posing rubbish. Of course not all of it is, but the majority that we get to see is.

And with hip hop, it seems mostly to be just nicking someone else's song and mouthing off over the top of it. I mean P Diddy's entire career seems to consist of saying "uh! yeah!" repeatedly over the top of other people's songs.

The thing is though, I do like some rap/hip-hop related stuff. I love Rage Against the Machine, and a bit of House of Pain. I like some of Eminem's stuff cos he's quite clearly taking the ****, and he's quite amusing sometimes. And I'm not some narrow-minded metalhead either. I like all sorts of stuff - soul, blues, classical, jazz....

Helicon_One
03-01-2006, 15:00
I think a lot of Hip-Hop and Rap culture is based around the gangsta lifestyle. Those who have the most bling, the most bitch's and the biggest blunts are the coolest. Its about how much of a "Bad-ass **************** you are!!11!!1" and its just sad. Its so cool to rap about shooting someone in gangsta rap.

Which is just pure testerone induced ********. It's so very "My cock is much bigger than yours" and i just find that annoying,stupid and generally despicable.

This much, I can go along with.

Saying that, one can easily make a similar argument about metal being based around the artists who are the most pointlessly angry and drugged up and mentally tortured being seen as the coolest. There's nothing 'cool' about mental illness or heroin addiction, any more than there's anything 'cool' about gang warfare or oversized gold rings and chains, and the "I'm so much more f*cked-up and misunderstood than you" message is hardly something to admire either.

Yes, I know that I'll be accused of basing that summary on exaggerated stereotypes, and to a point I am. But that's more or less the general perception of the genre, in the same way that the perception of rap is "my bitch's homies got more gunz than your bitch's homies..." Its the lowest common denominator elements that get noticed and used to mislabel the rest of the genre in the wider public mindset.

For the record I quite like some metal, as long as it rises above the 'angsty teens trying to annoy their parents' market, and can certainly listen to it on the radio without any trouble. But then, I like some hip-hop too, as long as it rises above the 'wannabe gangsta' market and has something interesting to say.

Tim

redemptionist15
03-01-2006, 15:23
Originally posted by Helicon_One

This much, I can go along with.

Saying that, one can easily make a similar argument about metal being based around the artists who are the most pointlessly angry and drugged up and mentally tortured being seen as the coolest. There's nothing 'cool' about mental illness or heroin addiction, any more than there's anything 'cool' about gang warfare or oversized gold rings and chains, and the "I'm so much more f*cked-up and misunderstood than you" message is hardly something to admire either.

Yes, I know that I'll be accused of basing that summary on exaggerated stereotypes, and to a point I am. But that's more or less the general perception of the genre, in the same way that the perception of rap is "my bitch's homies got more gunz than your bitch's homies..." Its the lowest common denominator elements that get noticed and used to mislabel the rest of the genre in the wider public mindset.

For the record I quite like some metal, as long as it rises above the 'angsty teens trying to annoy their parents' market, and can certainly listen to it on the radio without any trouble. But then, I like some hip-hop too, as long as it rises above the 'wannabe gangsta' market and has something interesting to say.

Tim

I very much agree, a lot of the angro-angst Metal which is bordering on Emo is doing my nut these days.

I think the other thing that annoys me about a lot of Hip-Hop and Rap is the over-inflated Egos. Sure Metal bands may be knobs in interviews but they don't mention their names or big themselves up in a song.

But genre stereotypes are everywhere, im sure there is lots of remarkable hip-hop and rap, maybe one day i will discover it :p

Xander-K
03-01-2006, 15:32
This much, I can go along with.

Saying that, one can easily make a similar argument about metal being based around the artists who are the most pointlessly angry and drugged up and mentally tortured being seen as the coolest. There's nothing 'cool' about mental illness or heroin addiction, any more than there's anything 'cool' about gang warfare or oversized gold rings and chains, and the "I'm so much more f*cked-up and misunderstood than you" message is hardly something to admire either.

well actually, you can't make a similar argument, especially about the mentally tortured or drugged up thing I don't know where this idea comes from at all.

Nothing bad about "pointless anger" as you put it, most music is there for some kind of emotion or idea to be expressed, I don't see anger as anything that should be discriminated agains't.

Well if you think mentally tortured people are cool then thats your issue, I don't personally know anyone into metal who thinks this way.

I'm so much more f*cked-up and misunderstood than you" message is hardly something to admire either.

Well I don't know where this message is coming from, yes there are those band that seem to "whinge" about their past situation (Papa Roach comes to mind) but they aren't showing it off or anything, just expressing something that was a major part of their life.

I don't see people admiring this either, it might be something they like to relate to at a troubled point of their life, but definately not something they admire.

Jade_Dragon
03-01-2006, 16:10
I usually listen to rap when I'm drunk at parties. The two go well together. I don't really listen to the words, the beats are fairly good though.

Kelroth
03-01-2006, 16:42
Sure Metal bands may be knobs in interviews but they don't mention their names or big themselves up in a song.

Manowar, anyone? ;)

redemptionist15
03-01-2006, 17:13
Manowar, anyone?

Haha good call. Power Metal is a little different mind.

I guess though you could say Gangsta Rap is the Power Metal of the Rap world.

Wez
03-01-2006, 17:23
Most metal you hear on the TV/Radio is incredibly commercialised and [imo] bad.

Most rap/hip-hop you hear on the TV/Radio is incredibly commercialised and [imo] bad.

If some 'metalheads' went out of their way to look into some more 'obscure' rap/ hip-hop they might like it more. If they listened to, for example, Nappy Roots, Saul Williams and even the Black Eyed peas, you'd find that not all rap/hip-hop is concerned with guns, hoes and wiggas.

But then again, the two music styles are different in terms of when you listen to them. Metal is great live, whereas itís useless in a club imo. Rap/hip-hop is so-so live, but much better if youíre going out.

Itís apples and oranges.

-Wez

raged_norm
03-01-2006, 17:27
My main problem with rap is the amount of air time it gets, and the fact that most of the artists don't seem to have anything to say or stand for much other than to 'get rich or die tryin''.

Some rap is good, just the gangsta rap that seems to get all the air time is all a bit meh.

Xander-K
03-01-2006, 19:34
yeah but not many places actually play exclusively metal, well not decent places, they usually have a couple of good ol' singalong tracks as well as "rarrararaRARARARaRARgrrrr" tracks.

Sojourner
03-01-2006, 19:36
*cough*Killswitch*cough*

Anthalas
03-01-2006, 20:40
mysogynistic,


She is waiting to kiss my hand
But she will wait for my command
My chains and collar brought her to her knees
She now is free to please

Woman, be my slave
That's your reason to live
Woman, be my slave
The greatest gift I can give
Woman, be my slave

Before her surrender she had no life
Now she's a slave, not a wife
Her only sorrow is for women who live with lies
She's taken off her disguise

Woman, be my slave
That's your reason to live
Woman, be my slave
The greatest gift I can give
Woman, be my slave

Your body belongs to me

Woman, come here
Remove your garments
Kneel before me
Please me

Woman, be my slave
That's your reason to live
Woman, be my slave
The greatest gift I can give
Woman, be my slave

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :p

I think Wez nailed it with the exposion thing. If you only listen to MTV and radio, every genre of music sounds like ****. Slipknot is no better than 50 Cent.

Anyways, I like both rap and metal. They're for different occasions and moods.

TeddyC
03-01-2006, 21:03
Ive read here that Rap is all about guns and Hoes, all about bling, shooting people etc etc etc.

As some of the more enlightened mention.... Thats not all rap/hip hop. Its just what gets most air time.

As far as im concerned Blind Guardian, Iced Earth, Opeth, Masterplan (as mentioned by Insane Alex) are no better than Slipknot... which automatically in my books puts them in the same category as Linkin Park, Mc Fly and Robbie Williams.

Ive not heard them. I might one day make the effort to go and have a listen. But in the same way do you put DJ shadow, Methodman, Jurassic 5, Swollen Members in the same category as M&M, fiddy cent, snoop dogg etc? Probably... And if you havent heard the intelligent side of Hip hop that is musical and lyrical genius then I wouldnt blame you.

For what its worth if I define metal/punk/rap/r'n'b/hip hop as to what I see in the chart or on MTV I wouldnt listen to anything other than Motown!

No matter what music you are into I doubt many people could say the best bands in their particular niche are found in the mainstream ********.

If your gonna be as closed minded as to say 'all rap and hip hop is about guns and hoes' then let me say 'All metal is as bad as Slipknot' and dont bitch.... otherwise broaden your horizons!

I did a looooong time ago. Im still a punk at heart but my music collection ranges from Avenged Sevenfold to Buddy Holly to Maximo Park to The Prodigy to Millencollin, Greenday, The Damned, Alkaline Trio then back to Ben Folds Five... (whatever happened to Bro Frog... he was into them as well)

Nid
03-01-2006, 22:17
If some 'metalheads' went out of their way to look into some more 'obscure' rap/ hip-hop they might like it more. If they listened to, for example, Nappy Roots, Saul Williams and even the Black Eyed peas,



what u gonno do with all that junk
all that junk inside that trunk?
Iíma get, get, get, get, u drunk,
Get you love drunk off my hump.
My hump, x8
My lovely little lumps,

Check it out
I drive these brothers crazy,
I do it on the daily,
They treat me really nicely,
They buy me all these ice-ys.
Dolce & Gabbana,
Fendi and then Donna
Karan they be shariní
All their money got me wearin fly gear , but I ainít askin,
They say they love my ass Ďn,
Seven Jeans, True Religion,
I say no, but they keep giviní
So I keep on takiní
And no I ainít takiní
We can keep on datiní
I keep on demonstrating.


My love, my love, my love, my love
You love my lady lumps,
My hump, my hump, my hump,
My humps they got u,
Sheís got me spending.
(Oooo) Spendiní all your money on me and spending time on me.
Sheís got me spendiní.
(Oooo) Spendiní all your money on me, on me, on me

What you gonna do with all that junk?
All that junk inside that trunk?
Iím a get, get, get, get, you drunk,
Get you love drunk off my hump.
What u goní do with all that ass?
All that ass inside them jeans?
Iím a make, make, make, make you scream
Make u scream, make you scream.
Cause of my hump, my hump, my hump, my hump.
My hump, my hump, my hump, my lovely lady lumps, check it out!

I met a girl down at the disco.
She said hey, hey, hey yea letís go
I could be your baby, you can be my honey
Lets spend time not money.
and mix your milk wit my cocoa puff,
Milky, milky cocoa,
Mix your milk with my cocoa puff, milky, milky riiiiiiide.

They say Iím really sexy,
The boys they wanna sex me.
They always standing next to me,
Always dancing next to me,
Tryiní a feel my hump, hump.
Lookiní at my lump, lump.
U can look but you canít touch it,
If u touch it Iíma spill some drama,
You donít want no drama,
No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama
So donít pull on my hand boy,
You ainít my man, boy,
Iím just trynía dance boy,
And move my hump.

My hump, my hump, my hump, my hump,
My hump, my hump, my hump, my hump, my hump, my hump.
My lovely lady lumps (x3)
In the back and in the front.
My loviní got u,
Sheís got me spendiní.
(Oooo) Spendiní all your money on me and spending time on me.
Sheís got me spendiní.
(Oooo) Spendiní all your money on me,up on me, on me.
What you goní do with all that junk?
All that junk inside that trunk?
Iíma get, get, get, get, you drunk,
Get you love drunk off my hump.
What u goní do with all that ass?
All that ass inside them jeans?
Iím a make, make, make, make you scream
Make u scream, make you scream.

What you gon do with all that junk?
All that junk inside that trunk?
Iíma get, get, get, get, you drunk,
Get you love drunk off THIS hump.
What you goní do wit all that breast?
All that breast inside that shirt?
Iíma make, make, make, make you work
Make you work, work, make you work
(Long Pause)
She's got me spending
(Oooo) spending all your money on me
and spendin' time on me
She's got me spending
(Ooo)spending all your money on me uh on me on me

This song makes me want to uphold the tenets of the sacred Kharne the Betrayer, and KILL MAIM BURN KILL MAIM BURN KILL MAIM BURN!!!!

Hlokk
03-01-2006, 22:24
Most rap music is awesome, no question about it.

While I agress that a lot of it is about Guns, blunts, 40s, cars and Hos, look at most rappers and you'll see the majority of the stuff they do isnt about that:

ie: 50cent. Rapper shot 7 times in his life, head of G unit (Inc Lloyd Banks, Young Buck etc..) and most people think he only raps about guns. If we look at his most famous songs, I think you'll be suprised:

In da Club: Song about, well, being in a club
Many men: Song about shooting someone
21 questions: Song to hypothetical girlfriend while he is in prison
Candy shop: Song about him in a brothel
Disco Inferno: Another one about him in a club

So while he does act big and hard in most of his songs (As most singer tend to do due to their inflated egos), he only overtly goes on about pimping and stuff a bit of the time. Look at rappers like Kanye West, The Game, Eminem, Diddy, JayZ etc and the ratio gets even lower. Acting big and hard is part of the appeal of hiphop, as I suppose acting like you want to hang yourself is the appeal of Papa Roach and Coldplay.

Its rappers like DMX (Who is massively anti-gay), NWA, Memphis Bleek and the Lox that perpetuate the image of gun totting rappers. People tend to turn a blind eye to the same industry that gave us NWA also gave us:

Public Enemy
Will Smith
RUN DMX
8ball and MJG
Rhyme Fest
Kel
Bizarre
Nightmare

None of whom have, to the best of my knowledge and 300 CD rap collection, have mentioned much about shooting people or hos or whatever.

Anyone disagrees, I'll challenge you to a 10 bar battle,

Nid
03-01-2006, 22:45
It wasn't specifically guns, it was Guns, Ho's, drinks, drugs, and bling. Let's see here.



ie: 50cent. Rapper shot 7 times in his life, head of G unit (Inc Lloyd Banks, Young Buck etc..) and most people think he only raps about guns. If we look at his most famous songs, I think you'll be suprised:

In da Club: Song about, well, being in a club
You can find me in the club, bottle full of bub
Look mami I got the X if you into taking drugs
I'm into having sex, I ain't into making love
So come give me a hug if you into to getting rubbed
Drugs, ho's, and alchohol. Check!

Many men: Song about shooting someone
I put a hole in a nigga for ********** with me
My back on the wall, now you gon' see
Better watch how you talk, when you talk about me
'Cause I'll come and take your life away
Guns and shooting someone, check!

21 questions: Song to hypothetical girlfriend while he is in prison
If I went back to a hoopty from a Benz, would you poof and disappear like
some of my friends?

I love you like a fat kid love cake ( :D )
Also the first block of 21 questions asked about cappin' people, getting sentenced to jail, second asks if she'd stick around if her dad found out he was a thug, sounds like he's representing exactly what we've been saying.

Candy shop: Song about him in a brothel
The entire song is about ho's. I rest my case.

Disco Inferno: Another one about him in a club
I'm so gutter, so ghetto, so hood.
So gully, so grimey, what's good?
I shot the benz on Dubbs,
I'm in the club wit the snubs - don't start nothin', it won't be nothin'.
Uuuhhh.

Sip champagne, and burn a little greenery.

You see me shinin', lit up with diamonds as I stay grindin'.
Uh-huh.
Homie you can catch me swoopin Bentley coupe and switchin lanes.
U see me rollin, you know wot I'm holdin, I'm about my paper, yeah.
You, sir, have failed to convince.

Insane Alex
03-01-2006, 22:53
As far as im concerned Blind Guardian, Iced Earth, Opeth, Masterplan (as mentioned by Insane Alex) are no better than Slipknot... which automatically in my books puts them in the same category as Linkin Park, Mc Fly and Robbie Williams.



KILL MAIM BURN ;)

Pretty much what I'm saying is: Don't try to sway the other side. Because metal is "Warp Speed Mr. Zulu" and rap is "Keep her steady, navigator".
I just like the dynamics of metal and the dynamics of rap don't sit well with me. And much respect to Eminem for having a sense of humour about rap.:D
But as I've said to other people I know, give me chance to enjoy rap and I will.

Nid
03-01-2006, 22:59
Wait I skimmed over 50cent being shot SEVEN times?!

That's clearly a call for better gun control!










someone needs to aim better ;)

Gavmo
03-01-2006, 23:16
For me, the reason why I hate Hip Hop so much is the culture it brings with it. Sure, the "music" sucks ****, but people like 50 Cent and Snoop Dogg are whats wrong with society.
Just sit down and listen to 50 Cent, if you can actually make out 1 word in 10, then you're doing well. And all their dancing ever is, is someone standing in front of a camera holding their crotch and waving their other hand out in front of them.
They try and make subjects like killing people good things!
And lets face it, they're not the sharpest tools in the shed. They all want to be Gangsta and act like criminals because they think its cool.

We are better off removing these no talent hacks from the gene pool before their stupidity spreads to the next generation.
...Oops, too late!:eek:

Izram
04-01-2006, 00:23
Hehe, music threads are fun to read.

The question was why do warseers act with such hostility towards rap, not why raps sucks. Thats the irony (and the main source of amusement from this thread).

I think Hywel nailed it on the head.

My interpretation would be that music is a set of (essentially arbitrary) sound waves interpreted as electrical signals by your brain and they effect everybody in a different way. My guess would be that similar brain patterns give rise to both liking wargames and disliking rap (or whatever qualities make you dislike rap I.E. alternitive poseur, non-comformist or whatever). That would be the reason for the concentrated hostility on warseer.

I like rap because the rhythms are nice for painting or gaming backdrop and listening to the words can put a smile on my face no matter my mood. But when the cards are down, I don't rap in the shower; other genres have more interesting lyrics.

New Cult King
04-01-2006, 00:34
Thing is, people who are TrU RapperZ 4 Life!!11! only know about crappy mainstream metal, and people who are tR00 Metallz0rs 4 L1fe11!! only know about crappy mainstream rap.

I spent a year as a mobile DJ, going to parties etc with my rig, and this allowed me to experience a whole range of different music. Technically, I suppose I'm more of a metalhead, but I don't identify myself as such. However, I have heard some really good rap music which I like a lot, Methodman being the first to spring to mind.

And I don't care what anyone says, Eminem is great - he's funny and clever with some excellent rhymes. Most hardkorez rappers like to hate him for the same reasons the hardkorez metallers hate Slipknot: both have commercial appeal.

I've said elsewhere if bands like Linkin Park and Slipknot can introduce people to metal, then they are doing us all a service, same as if rappers like Eminem and 50 Cent (*shudder*) can introduce people to better rap, then they have done a good thing for the genre and fans alike.

Anthalas
04-01-2006, 00:45
And all their dancing ever is, is someone standing in front of a camera holding their crotch and waving their other hand out in front of them.

Umm... all metal "dancing" is people holding their fists in the air and moving their heads back and forth. Not that I'm complaining, seeing as how it's the most complex dance I can do.

As for rap being all about "guns yo!", here's a little tune called Gunz Yo.


Guns yo
I keep one in my pillowcase
It keeps me safe when I sleep
Still I keep awake
What if my dream girl pays a midnight visit
I see the world through the scope but I gain no insight with it
When I get introspective I put the safety on
Make these songs with the biscuits sittin' in my shakey palms
I'm a man now (a real man)
Not the one who went to two colleges groveling over meal plans (nah)
I'm staring at the ceiling fan
All wide-eyed
Amazed by the ways the blades break the silence
I used to be afraid of firin'
The sound was startlin'
But now I'm startin' to hate the quiet moments
Might remind you of a mic like the way I hold it
To the grill
A homophobic rapper
Unaware of the graphic nature of phallic symbols
Tragically ironic (suckin' off each others gats and pistols)
I got more back issues than guns and ammo
Cuz my uzi ways a ton
And I never let go of the handle
Hangin' on to mommy's pantleg
Double fisting
Knee deep in shells kickin ballistics
This dick! is a detachable penis
An extension of my manhood positioned like a fetus
An intraveinous hookup feeds bullets to my magazine
Nevermind your bullets
My pistol is a sex machine
Gunz yo (sex ma- sex machine)

Lord Lucifer
04-01-2006, 00:51
Why do so many on Warseer respond with open hostility towards Rap and Hip Hop?

Because we're geeks on an internet forum. It's that simple.

Some geeks get so insecure they have to justify everything.
Geek likes metal. Why does geek like metal? Geek has to prove why he likes metal... uh... metal is ?
Errr, ooh I know, it's more REAL! Metal must be better because it's more real, which means geek must attack everything else to prove it is inferior to his own personal view.

Geek doesn't like Rap and Hip Hop, so has to prove why he doesn't. It must be inferior, it must be badwrong!
Okay, cursory overview of the genre, no in-depth view or attempt to understand it, as firstly geek does not like it, and secondly if geek discovers it has merit it will undermine his position and cast his tastes into doubt... how can he simply dislike something from personal preference and leave it as that? How will everyone know geek is right and better than them?
So geek looks at the big-selling idiots. 50cent, guy who got shot 7 times, gangster. Gangsters bad! Violence is bad (discounting of course moshing and circle pits and songs glorifying blood and violence in metal, that's different, that's good violence).
Nevermind that Curtis Jackson appears to be turning his life around and using the music industry as a way to achieve a better way of life, and rapping about past experiences in an almost cathartic experience. He's a rapper, geek hates rap, so there is no redeeming virtues (we'll ignore the fact that his music blows for this, as quality is irrelevant to a geek, anything a geek dislikes is automatically talentless, Britney Spears is talentless and lazy and was just handed a contract first off for example, despite the fact she made a dedicated push to break into the music industry since before she was a teenager, Geek-O-Vision conveniently allows us to ignore that... sure I hate her music, but that's a LOT of dedication to a seemingly hopeless task)

So now geek has established that because he likes Metal, that Metal is far superior to everything else, and this has to be justified
Geek has established that Rap and Hip Hop are not Metal, so therefore are totally worthless. Geek has also established that Pop, Country, Blues, Jazz etc. are by extension worthless.
But Rap and Hip Hop are more popular, and as all geeks know, geeks are a vastly superior minority, how could the majority be better? Everyone knows the majority are always idiots. This means Rap and Hip Hop are MORE worthless.


Now Geek is faced with a dilemma. Geek has found a Metal band that geek does not like. How could this be?
Clearly, it must be a sub-genre, and not true metal!
And lots of people appear to like this Nu-Metal, and geek recalls that majorities are idiots. Popular Metal must burn, it is not True Metal! It's not real metal!
Geek has disassociated himself from music he dislikes, and justified his distaste to prove he's right.
Geek sits back comfortably in his narrow view of the world, with his carbon-clone friends, all wearing their "You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because you're all the same" shirts they found 10 for $10




Now, there's another geek. Geek listened to Hip Hop, and found that it was good. Geek listened to Metal and disliked it. Geek had to prove his tastes we're justified so he'd be allowed to have them, so geek denounced Metal as "Just some unintelligable screaming and some hairy, sweaty ****** hitting guitars with hamfisted ineptitude, it's not real music" by much the same process that Metal Geek used, and Punk Geek will use (although Punk Geeks go an extra level and argue ad nauseum about what exactly punk is)


The tenets of geekhood music elitism is that things you like are superior, things you dislike are inferior.
Things you like require talent and dedication, and things you dislike are talentless and children can become really successful doing them
Things you like are more 'real' and things you dislike are 'superficial'
And finally, things that sound like things you like, but you in fact dislike, are not True Examples of your Chosen Genre, and must be denounced constantly and one must crusade to remove them from the collective genre you follow (hello nu-metal, gangsta rap, commercial pop, etc.)




So yes, the reason is because geeks are insecure and need to justify their music tastes, and have simply must prove other people they are wrong.





And I don't care what anyone says, Eminem is great - he's funny and clever with some excellent rhymes.
Too many of his 'whining about life' songs become singles. There, I said it.
I just don't get the whole "I'm sorry mama, I never meant to hurt you" bit when one of the previous albums featured a song where he pictures brutally raping and murdering her. Seriously, what effect do you think that would have? Flattery?
Meh, stick to the irrascable sarcastic nutter, that's entertaining. Releasing the whining "I've Got Family Problems, Maybe I Should Stop Making Songs That Create Them" songs make him the rapping equivalent of LiveJournal

Lord Balor
04-01-2006, 01:38
And that is why Balor witholds his opinon until after the "Shame on You" speaches. It's one of those feel good, clear of mind things before you actually realise that you yourself are getting all 'superior' on those with an apparent lack of morality. However that passes as the irony sinks in that the "Shame on You Speech" is in itself a declaration of 'superiority'. After a chuckle, you reach enlightenment and know that just about any opinion is an assessed judgement in which the end result is what a particular person finds the best choice for a given circumstance ala a superior choice. Finally, in your state of infinite wisdom, you realise that through enlightenment, you yourself have become apart of elitist group and both the perpertrator and victem of elitism at the same time...

*head explodes*

And the moral of the story is never walk into a philosophy lecture because you found computer science too boring. Seriously, it was the most confusing and useless thing i've ever learned. Anywho back on topic, Luci's hit the nail right on the head in that it all boils down to our own need to know that we are right and that our choices and perspectives have meaning in an otherwise chaotic world. That or heated discussion on musical preference its a "Geek's own" version of a power trip.

Just remember kiddies, the Antonym of Opinion is fact and therefore all of your views are to put it plainly; wrong :evilgrin:

New Cult King
04-01-2006, 02:06
Meh, stick to the irrascable sarcastic nutter, that's entertaining.

That's the stuff I enjoy. I can also understand the swings between his "I hate you/I love you" stuff, but that's a topic for another time.

As for the rest of your post, well said. It's so sad to see the quasi-annonymous internet posturing that goes on. I'm happy anybody liking whatever they want, unless it intrudes on my own enjoyment of life. Case in point: a local live metal venue in Brisbane changed direction recently, and instead of the DJ playing metal songs when there was no band on stage, they started playing things like the Sugarbabes and Beyonce. Without commenting on the merits of those 2 bands (Beyonce has done quite well for herself), that kind of music isn't expected or appreciated in a club known for it's 'metal vibe', so I take exception to it. That's about the extent of my gripes about other kinds of music though.

If I don't like it, I won't listen to it. Nobody has a gun to my head.

Rabid Bunny 666
04-01-2006, 08:53
just not too keen on the style of music, seems to be a little bit half-arsed and easy to do tm me, and i prefer my metal to Rap/ Hip-Hop

Xander-K
04-01-2006, 10:11
Anywho back on topic, Luci's hit the nail right on the head in that it all boils down to our own need to know that we are right and that our choices and perspectives have meaning in an otherwise chaotic world.
not everyone claimed to be right, most people were expressing opinions and at the same time being open to the idea that not all rap was bad.

They were also expressing how their own music taste can be seen as poor if the wrong types of bands are watched. I don't see that as an elitist decleration at all, I think Luci has made a sweeping statement about elitests in general, not about the posts in this thread.

Well of course it has meaning, it has personal meaning, its possibly a major part of your life I can't see why it wouldn't have any meaning unless you were nihilistic or deaf.

Wez
04-01-2006, 10:24
Just sit down and listen to 50 Cent, if you can actually make out 1 word in 10, then you're doing well. And all their dancing ever is, is someone standing in front of a camera holding their crotch and waving their other hand out in front of them.
Normally I wouldn't care about this, but when we're comparing metal to rap this is ridiculous. You can understand Fiddy's lyrics far better than many metal bands. Yes he likes to hold his crotch and do lorry driver actions with his other hand, but compare this to 'moshing', 'headbanging', 'pits' and those 'devil signs' people make with their fingers.

Luci: You're wrong. You're insecure. Not me. YOU! You're trying to hide it under a facade of intelligence, but I know better...:p

I'd also like to take this oppertunity to shamelessly plug this (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18246).

-Wez

Xander-K
04-01-2006, 10:51
well I dunno, unless it is really heavy metal stuff, you tend to be able to pick out lyrics easier than 50 cent for sure.

its only very recently, that newer metal bands mix screaming in with actual vocals, but then you still hear the vocal bit easy enough.

Wez
04-01-2006, 10:58
well I dunno, unless it is really heavy metal stuff, you tend to be able to pick out lyrics easier than 50 cent for sure.

its only very recently, that newer metal bands mix screaming in with actual vocals, but then you still hear the vocal bit easy enough.
Bands such as Dark Tranquillity, In Flames, Soilwork, Arch Enemy, Breed 77 and American Head Charge are quite hard to understand at times. You can hear and comprehend a fair few words, but often not the whole song. I find it fairly easy to understand what 50cent is saying in most of his songs.

-Wez

Lord Lucifer
04-01-2006, 11:12
I think Luci has made a sweeping statement about elitests in general, not about the posts in this thread.
I was not commenting on this thread, but rather the subject the thread posed

From Ed's opener

Whenever the topic of music comes up, people generally tend to have pretty strong opinions and I can accept that but whenever Hip Hop culture or more specifically Rap comes up the replies start getting quite nasty seemingly without justification. I was just curious, what is it that about Hip Hop that tends to elicit such a negative response from Warseer members ?
I commented on the discussions that have taken place previously, that this opener alludes to.
No musical genre is subjected to such enmity as those that fall under rap/hip-hop on these boards, in my observance, are treated to.

I raised my point to highlight a reason why wargaming geeks act in such a way, and then highlight the fact that it is, indeed, universal to all elitists, as you have noted. As well as a reason why Rap/Hip-hop suffer from it more (a more highly 'visible' genre)


None of this was a dig at people on this thread, or any specifics, but rather at insecure elitism as a whole. Which anyone and everyone is capable of


And Wez, I've always lived by the rule that I'm right because I'm me and you're not* :p






*as the acclaimed philosopher Jimmy Pop Ali** once opined "'Cause I'm more tongue-in-cheek than a lesbo orgy"


**who is a rapper that does not allude to some past featuring serious criminal activity, sexual prowess, or glorified 'ghetto-fabulous' lifestyles, further bucking the trend.

Nid
04-01-2006, 11:14
Luci made sense :eek:





He's a witch! Burn him!

SuperBeast
04-01-2006, 11:23
*as the acclaimed philosopher Jimmy Pop Ali** once opined "'Cause I'm more tongue-in-cheek than a lesbo orgy"

**who is a rapper that does not allude to some past featuring serious criminal activity, sexual prowess, or glorified 'ghetto-fabulous' lifestyles, further bucking the trend.
No, he just performs songs about sex, sex and more sex, retards, sexual assault, pacman taking drugs, love for amputees, prison rape, advocating suicide, women as sex objects...
I'd also state for the record that the lyrics of "Boom" would sound just as credible coming from the mouth of a Harlem crack dealer. :eek:
Not decrying the man (known as James Franks to his mum), just feel it should be pointed out he's hardly a moral compass to compare against "gangsta" rappers. You'd be better off starting with Will Smith. :D

Odin
04-01-2006, 12:04
I did a looooong time ago. Im still a punk at heart but my music collection ranges from Avenged Sevenfold to Buddy Holly to Maximo Park to The Prodigy to Millencollin, Greenday, The Damned, Alkaline Trio then back to Ben Folds Five... (whatever happened to Bro Frog... he was into them as well)

Bro Frog does surface occasionally. I love Ben Folds Five as well. Met the man himself after a gig once. Nice bloke.

I've just remembered another thing I hate about some rap/hip-hop. It's the whole "I've just found a rhyming dictionary so I'm going to ram as many rhyming words into my lyrics as possible, with no consideration for whether the lyrics actually mean anything". When I write a song I wrestle with the lyrics for months on end trying to produce something I'm even partially pleased with, so to see people making hideous amounts of money from just lumping together a few rhyming words interspersed with a few "uh! yeah!"s makes me seethe. Again though, I will admit it's probably most common at the commercial end of the market.

Wez
04-01-2006, 12:31
*as the acclaimed philosopher Jimmy Pop Ali** once opined "'Cause I'm more tongue-in-cheek than a lesbo orgy"


**who is a rapper that does not allude to some past featuring serious criminal activity, sexual prowess, or glorified 'ghetto-fabulous' lifestyles, further bucking the trend.
Some of his songs are metal-esque imo. Along Comes Mary, I hope you die etc. Of course, as you said, he's also a rapper though (Shut Up) and, I guess, a poet (A Lapdance is so much better when the Stripper is crying).:eek:

Odin: I agree, although occasionally metal bands are also guilty of this (Rammstein would be a prime example).

-Wez

Hlokk
04-01-2006, 15:02
For me, the reason why I hate Hip Hop so much is the culture it brings with it. Sure, the "music" sucks ****, but people like 50 Cent and Snoop Dogg are whats wrong with society.

Behold, ladies and gentlemen, the modern socraties :rolleyes:

what about the culture metal brings with it:

"ROAR!!! Im a fat, greasy metaller who doesnt wash and screams over music that sounds like a cat being banged aganst a wall"

or Country:

"Im related to 3 of my wives, I can't read, am a borderline alcoholic and all my songs are about dogs called old blue who sit on their masters graves"

or R&B

"Music for slappers who sole purpose is to gather as many STIs as possible"

All music carries a certain number of steriotypes and cultural norms about it, that doesnt necessarily make it bad does it?

And I refuse to see how hip-hop is "Easier" than metal (According to rabidbunny), that is a complete load. How hard do you think it is for Godsmack to scream "I stand alone" over and over again, or for someone like Hatebreed or Cradle of Filth to come up with another 5 minutes of white noise? Oompare their meaningless lyrics with things like Dre, Snoop, Eminem, Biggie, Big Pun, Fat Joe, Bubba, Will Smith etc, and theres a lot more effort goes into these songs than the ***** 99% of metal bands turnout.

The difference lies in the lyrics I think. Priority in Metal seems to be given to the music (I use that term in the loosest possible sence) with screaming fitted over it, whereas the lyrics are given priority in Rap, and the beat fitted either round the dilivery or coming second.

Sojourner
04-01-2006, 15:09
Hey now, the screaming is actually words, and is actually in tune. Any old **** making noise into a mike can't necessarily do it well. It takes a trained ear to appreciate it - if you hate it, you won't have listened to it enough to have become accustomed to it. Trust the people who know - their brains do actually process it differently to yours and pick up more nuances than the man on the street.

Hlokk
04-01-2006, 15:13
Hey now, the screaming is actually words, and is actually in tune. Any old **** making noise into a mike can't necessarily do it well. It takes a trained ear to appreciate it - if you hate it, you won't have listened to it enough to have become accustomed to it. Trust the people who know - their brains do actually process it differently to yours and pick up more nuances than the man on the street.

I'll agree with you on that, however, I would also argue its the same with Rap. People Like Nid, Rabidbunny etc, who obviously dont like Rap, clearly havnt listened to enough of it, or a broad enough array of it, to pick up the clever wordplay, imagery or Nuances in there.

SuperBeast
04-01-2006, 15:58
I try to avoid Trollish comments, but this one I just cannot resist. :D

Eminem. Fall Out Boy. Marilyn Manson. Jimmy Pop Ali (of the Bloodhound Gang).

One of the above four is [hypothetically] the greatest (by which I mean "skill with vocabulary, imagery and metaphor") lyricist of our time.
I can't actually pick between them myself.

Discuss. (Comments like "looks like an idiot", "he is a prat", "all his fans are sad" are not admissable...)

Xander-K
04-01-2006, 17:28
Bands such as Dark Tranquillity, In Flames, Soilwork, Arch Enemy, Breed 77 and American Head Charge are quite hard to understand at times. You can hear and comprehend a fair few words, but often not the whole song. I find it fairly easy to understand what 50cent is saying in most of his songs.

-Wez
note I said unless its really heavy stuff, Arch Enemy and In Flames are certainly heavy, well lets put it this way... I can understand a lot more of the words in mainstream metal than in mainstream hip-hop/rap.

Chuffy
04-01-2006, 19:14
The big problem here is people mixing up rap, RnB and Hip Hop.

Different things people, different things (and Hip Hop is the best any way).

Look okay, if you dorks don't like 'rap' because it's too violent or talks about hoes too much (or whatever), listen to Optimus Rhyme, MC Frontalot and MC Chris. Also give the Ghetto Boys a try, specifically 'Damn it feels good to be a gangsta'. All pretty silly and some are exceptionally clever.

Nid
04-01-2006, 19:42
specifically 'Damn it feels good to be a gangsta'. All pretty silly and some are exceptionally clever.

:cool: (see attachment)


Hlokk. I actually do listen to rap. I am forced to listen to it on a near daily basis. The only stuff I enjoy are when Snoop is on the Dave Chapelle show. I admit, I love how smooth he makes everything. There you go, I like some Snoop Dog. Fact remains, I do in fact heavily dislike 99% of it.

Gavmo
06-01-2006, 07:28
It seems like a lot of people are making the generalisation that if you don't like rap then you like heavy metal. I can tell you for me this is not the case. I dislike metal even more than I hate rap.

Lord Lucifer, someone had to say it, someone had to throw in their 2 cents as to why people who dislike other things are therefore stupid. Its a discussion and my view is that I do not like rap. Deal with it.

-Ed
06-01-2006, 08:24
Thanks for the replies everyone, for the most part, it's been interesting. While discussion is good, I'd like to put the I hate mainstream theory to the test and encourage more open minded members to sample some of these less mainstream, less flashy, more carefully produce tracks by an Australian Group known as the Hilltop Hoods(all the downloads are from a sanctioned dumpsite as the tracks are out of production) :

Twilight (http://www.micmaster.com/chump/Audio/misc%20tracks/hilltop_hoods_-_twilight-2001.mp3)
1979 (http://www.micmaster.com/chump/oz%20reLeases/(1999)%20-%20Hilltop%20Hoods%20-%20A%20MATTER%20OF%20TIME%20(vinyl)/02%20-%20Hilltop%20Hoods%20-%201979.mp3)
Shades of Grey (http://www.micmaster.com/chump/oz%20reLeases/(1997)%20-%20Hilltop%20Hoods%20-%20BACK%20ONCE%20AGAIN%20(vinyl)/03%20-%20Hilltop%20Hoods%20-%20Shades%20Of%20Grey.mp3)
Battlegear (http://www.micmaster.com/chump/oz%20reLeases/(1999)%20-%20Hilltop%20Hoods%20-%20A%20MATTER%20OF%20TIME%20(vinyl)/05%20-%20Hilltop%20Hoods%20-%20B-Boy%20Battlegear.mp3)

Prince_Tyrion
06-01-2006, 10:25
For me, the reason why I hate Hip Hop so much is the culture it brings with it. Sure, the "music" sucks ****, but people like 50 Cent and Snoop Dogg are whats wrong with society.

This to me is hilarious. The only grain of truth that they are what's wrong with society is that they are commercialised and idols among their particular subcultures, just like metalheads have their idols (and some even kill each other; OMG SCANDINAVIAN DEATH METAL!!!!). What's wrong with society today is the materialistic trip people feel the need to go on via the values the bigger of these commercialised bands. The fact that altruism seems so sure they'd rather join a subculture to procalim their 'individuality'.

I wear black, when I feel like it. I also wear lots of bright colours. I like all types of metal and hard rock, I also like Hip-Hop, dance and trance. I would not label myself as part of any sub-culture or group. I'm me. I have some friends who both bought Nu-Rocks at the same time. They now don't wear them. He recently bought some Etnies trainers, which is fair enough, but he believes this to be the pinnacle of individulaity, along with the rest of his fashion sense and music taste. It's like 'Hello, Etnies are a multi-million dollar company, I think they sell shoes to more people than just you and pro-skaters'. Besides, if the most important things in such matters is how you dress and what you listen to, you're probably not that interesting.

In short, Luci has it right. It's just I believe on a larger scale the whole 'holier than thou' attitude on a group scale p****s me right off. Though it does mean more friends for me :p

Hlokk
06-01-2006, 11:23
This to me is hilarious. The only grain of truth that they are what's wrong with scoiety is that they are commercialised and idols among their particular subcultures, just like metalheads have their[s]

Agreed.

Right, everyone's heard of slipknot right? Just because everyones heard of them, doesnt mean their the epitomie of metal does it? (Stupidly, I did buy a slipknot album, feel free to mock away)

In the same way, Just because all MTV Base will play is G-unit, Fat Joe and DMX, doesnt mean that this is the apotheosis of Rap does it? Theres loads more stuff that isnt listened to by the general public (Including the majority of album tracks) that isnt about guns, ho's and stuff.

Sojourner
06-01-2006, 11:29
Indeed. I suppose I can respect it as an art form, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

And here endeth the lesson.

Gavmo
06-01-2006, 11:29
Hmm, I'm getting really jaded with this thread. Here's a summary:
The people who are stating their view are being accused of superiority complexes.
The people labeling others with superiority complexes seem to be the ones with them.
If you dont like rap, then you must like metal.
If you think that one type of music is better than another, then you're either a mainstream sellout or an individual depending on what your choice is.
If you dont like something in any given genre of music, then you are allowed to label it as a sub-culture so that you can distance yourself from it.
If you dont like rap then you're stupid and have a superiority complex.
If you do like rap, then you probably like a different type than everyone else, which means that you dont actually like rap at all.

How about we all just say screw it and go listen to Enya.
(Hard core Enya or Techno Enya?)
SHUT UP!!!

New Cult King
06-01-2006, 12:39
There's Hardkore Enya?

*hits Google*

Prince_Tyrion
06-01-2006, 12:50
Remember to turn off the safe search.

Lord Lucifer
07-01-2006, 03:50
Lord Lucifer, someone had to say it, someone had to throw in their 2 cents as to why people who dislike other things are therefore stupid. Its a discussion and my view is that I do not like rap. Deal with it.
I have a problem with your taste in music? :confused:
I must not have been paying attention. I assumed I wasn't bothered by what music you do and do not like
Thanks for straightening that out :p

I wasn't making any remarks about people being idiots for not liking a particular musical style, or even a specific example of a given style, independant of other examples of the same.
The discussion is on the vehement opposition to Rap and hip-hop above and beyond that shown to other genres of music from the general Portent/Warseer population.
The discussion is not about what we do and do not like. I like some rap and dislike quite a lot of it.
But a LOT of people tend to dismiss the entire genre and anything associated with it, with only token justification. As in, not sound reasoning, beyond "It's sucks because I don't like it"
I don't like it, doesn't mean it sucks.
Next myth is it requires no talent. Again, BS, requires a hell of a lot of talent, even vocal talent, to get a good sounding flow and rythm. It requires talent to be a good rapper, just as it requires talent to be a good metal screamer, and talent to be a good singer. So many people, however, make the claim that Rapping or Screaming require no talent.


These are common complaints.
They are also unjustified comments.

Now you can hate rap all you like, it's your prerogative to do so. I dislike a lot of it also, as stated earlier.
And I don't think I've noticed you slating Rap and Hip Hop simply because you don't like it, and it's that activity I'm commenting on.



Indeed. I suppose I can respect it as an art form, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

And here endeth the lesson.
Bingo :)

mujadaddy
07-01-2006, 04:23
Music is stupid. All it does is trick people into perpetuating the musician's lives because they're somewhat amusing to the people who actually do work in society.

Wez
07-01-2006, 09:58
Music is stupid. All it does is trick people into perpetuating the musician's lives because they're somewhat amusing to the people who actually do work in society.
Especially Bob Geldof.

Hang on...

-Wez

TeddyC
07-01-2006, 10:10
I hate bob geldof

MAKEpovertyQUIETER....

and bono as well

Kohhna
07-01-2006, 20:16
I hate bob geldof

MAKEpovertyQUIETER....

and bono as well
Bang on chief I remember saying as much in my semi-legendary G8 Thread in P&R at the time.

LL has pretty much said it all.
One thing I'd add is that there is a process of acclimatisation that you have to go through to get used to any genre of music. I'd imagine that early contact with Hip/hop rap music and the various contributaory elements is probably missing from the experience a lot of the Haters on the thread.

Delicious Soy
08-01-2006, 12:10
Being the eternal fence sitter (Stoner rock annihilates both rap and metal anyway :p) perhaps I can take what I like and remove what I don't from both genres:

First bugger rap off. Hip hop is where is at as far as I'm concerned. Rap took Hip Hop, slit its throat and let the energy, fun and wordplay bleed out all over the pavement. Throw that back in and you could listen to smart assed 5 percenters go on all day about black superioty and not really care.

Second, any metal sub genre that includes phrase like grind, thrash or any other word that implies violent stupidity may also be dispatched. Lyrics are created so we can hear them, not so we can read them in the disc cover then try to match them to the demonic screaming of heavy vocals.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
08-01-2006, 12:52
Sadly, Rap music and Hip-Hop are something of a joke.

The Lab Tech where I work likes his Hip-Hop and Rap, and he is the first to admit that the vast, vast majority is derivative crap, perpetuating an otherwise non-existent 'Gangsta' lifestyle of drugs, hos drugs gun hos and money.

I can appreciate where Rap came from. Like Punk, it can be observed as a sort of street poetry. Like Punk, it contains a lot of genuine anger at the unjust nature of soceity. For example, take Public Enemy. They actually had a point. Then along came tossers like Cash Money, who started the whole Bling revolution. When this happend, skinny arsed, upper middle class whiteboys who wanted to upset mater and pater seized upon this, giving birth the Whigger phenomenon. And at the point, Rap and Hip Hop lost any all respect from the majority. It had managed to become a self parody, promoting and perpetuating *exactly* the sort of depressing lifestyle it had originally set out to confront and end.

Gwedd
08-01-2006, 13:12
Comrades,

I have a rather eclectic taste in music. I listen to a lot of Goth and also Country. I still have some 30's and 40's Big band collections that I toss on the turntable every now and then. I truly hate Disco, but from a financial perspective. It put me out of work for over a year when all the clubs where I played put in huge sound systems and started brining in DJ's instead of live bands. It wasn't that we musicians weren't good, but that the club had a higher profit picture by hiring one guy to spin records then hiring a band.

Personally, I find Rap and Hip Hop shallow and more full of posers than the local Goth pub. But I digress...

I did hear some good Rap music the other day, though. It was coming from a cart about three blocks up the street:)

Wez
08-01-2006, 14:17
Sadly, Rap music and Hip-Hop are something of a joke.

The Lab Tech where I work likes his Hip-Hop and Rap, and he is the first to admit that the vast, vast majority is derivative crap, perpetuating an otherwise non-existent 'Gangsta' lifestyle of drugs, hos drugs gun hos and money.

I can appreciate where Rap came from. Like Punk, it can be observed as a sort of street poetry. Like Punk, it contains a lot of genuine anger at the unjust nature of soceity. For example, take Public Enemy. They actually had a point. Then along came tossers like Cash Money, who started the whole Bling revolution. When this happend, skinny arsed, upper middle class whiteboys who wanted to upset mater and pater seized upon this, giving birth the Whigger phenomenon. And at the point, Rap and Hip Hop lost any all respect from the majority. It had managed to become a self parody, promoting and perpetuating *exactly* the sort of depressing lifestyle it had originally set out to confront and end.
That's just the commercialisation of the music, not the music itself.

Metal got commercialised and much of it became crap.
Punk got commercialised and much of it became crap.
Rap/Hip-hop got commercialised and much of it became crap.

If house, Tai, country or whatever becomes the new ‘in thing’, the same will happen. You can’t hate metal/ punk/ rap/ hip-hop because what you hear on the radio sounds corny. If it didn’t you wouldn’t hear it on the radio.

Then again, some 'commercialised' bands are quite good imo. Black Eyed Peas, Eminem's first 2 albums and some of the Tupac 'Better Days' music spring to mind. System of a Down, some Slipknot and the odd Disturbed song are great as well imo, but I think their music as a whole is over-rated.

-Wez

Kohhna
08-01-2006, 16:08
There's still a lot of good rootsy hip-hop being made. I saw a video by a guy called Plan B on TV the other night and It was one of the most exceiting things I've seen in ages, the music was quite amazing. That and the Arctic Monkeys ('When The Sun Goes Down' vid is pure brilliant) are my tips for the coming year. I suppose that the lesson is that the best stuff in the underground.