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The Night Sojourner
03-01-2006, 00:27
I am an Empire player who is wondering what do I need to know against the Brets. I know about their lance formation, and their speed; however, I am unsure what the archer's stakes do. My question is that I know my opponent is known to have his knights flee, and concentrate all of his force into one lance charge. I am wondering could a unit w/ counter charging detachments and griffin std take this one w/ knights to lap the rear? Also, any other hints?

Keller
03-01-2006, 20:24
The stakes, IIRC, simply negate charge bonuses for attacking units. I'm not sure if chargers still strike first or not, but they lose weapon bonuses, such as lances.

Cannonballs, handgun bullets, even the horrid Helblaster are all good options vs the Brets. Concentrate fire to thin the lances to manageable sizes and wait for him to charge. Keep your infantry units large (~25) with detachments to counter and negate his ranks. Captains in the units can help quite abit, as they can usually chop down one or two knights. Just watch your strength; its often helpful to stay S4 to avoid increasing the Blessing save to a 5+.

Long_Fang
04-01-2006, 07:52
The above advice is very good.

Units that do not break on the charge are very good (Greatswords) as the charge is when Bretonnian knights are at their best. The griffon standard will increase your chances of holding during a charge as it increases your chances of winning combat. Same goes for detachments, but try not to depend on these as much as your opponent might chose to charge them instead.

Beware of Pegasis knights as they are very fast and very manuverable and probobly the hardest hitting fliers in the game.

Do not underestimate Mounted Yeomen (Bretonnian fast cavalry) as they can flank you and take away your precious rank bonuses. Not to mention capture objectives to gain extra victory points while the bulk of the army smashes you to bits.

Bretonnians depend on armour to survive as much as they depend on their charge. If you can equip your heroes with weapons that reduce armour you are already a step ahead.

Remember as thier armour is very good, usually 2+, their toughness is ONLY 3, even on the 38 points Grail Knights,naturally Heros being the exception. Another reason Greatswords are so good against Bretonnian Knights.

Long_Fang
04-01-2006, 07:55
Stakes take away any and all bonuses for charging. This includes starting first, you revert to using initiative, and bonuses for weapons such as spears or lances, as mentioned above.

Stakes also take away special bonuses for chargers, such as Bone Giants unstopable assult rules and the like.

Stakes are also removed if the unit moves or even reforms.

Wez
04-01-2006, 11:43
I'd take as many stubborn/unbreakable untis as you can as well as the griffon standard and a BSB. Use the rest of your points to get handgunners, countercharging/flanking units and a decentish combat lord.

Cannons and such are over-rated against brets imo. The long cavalry bases and ward save make the most warmachines fairly useless.

-Wez

SuperBeast
04-01-2006, 11:56
Also remember that if your opponent decides to flee as a charge reaction with knights, he will lose the Blessing of the Lady.

Crazy Harborc
05-01-2006, 01:02
Cannons can mess up a Bret. lance. The tick is learning how to under guess the distance so that 10 on the artillery die doesn't cause an over shoot. (When I don't roll a 10 or 8.......THEN I roll a misfire.:confused:

nikolai7
05-01-2006, 10:50
in 2000 points take 2 hellblasters, screw his blessing, use militia as detachments take block infantry and a bsb, keep your characters where they can use thier leadership, if you have greatswords dont let them get charged ever.. they suck at receiving charges.. pistoliers work well aswell

Gaius Marius
06-01-2006, 16:48
Don't underestimate Empire Cavalry. A block of 8 or 9 Empire knights led by a hero with a lance or great weapon (78pts cheap) can go toe to toe with Bret Realm Knights & Errants, if you thin them out with shooting first. The 1+ save of the empire works wonders. This is a nice part of a combo strategy with warmachines and hand gunners (who really mess up Brets). You make him not want to spend too many turns maneuvering for his charges because of the increased exposure to missile fire, so when he gets close for a charge, charge him first.

archonbrujah
07-01-2006, 01:43
Bret's are horrid at dealing with tarpit units. Flagellants should work for this, with Dwarfs I use Slayers. Also, don't forgo your war machines, a solid cannon hit can seriously mess any knightly unit. Mortars are good if he goes peasant heavy. Huntsmen can be useful to start denying march moves early on, to maximize your time spent shooting with your Hangunners.

And your Knights wear good Dwarf built armor, so you can take a charge better then he can.

Remember, Bret army is built around the charge, Empire around balanced force of arms, use your strengths.

Archonbrujah

The Black Knight
08-01-2006, 10:08
Charge the stakes withhalberdiers or sworrdsmen as zombies are better than brettonian archers. And if they move then they lose the stake advantage

The hellblaster willmake a mess of the knights(hopefully)but beware the grail knights as they can take out a unit of rhinox riders on the charge.


Speaking of which, you could use some ogres on rhinos or ogres with big swords..........