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View Full Version : vox-caster's lame?



Bathawk
05-07-2009, 04:00
recently found out that "old voxcaster's allowed a unit to use it's commander's leadership anywhere on the board

not bad, not bad

But now it just allows a reroll for understanding orders? you have a proton pack on your back and you can still only hear your commander if he's 12 inches away????

Imperius
05-07-2009, 04:05
Compared to the old vox-caster YES.
I really really really hate the new vox-caster, for a leadership test they will fail anyway at Ld7 who cares?I say cut them off of the back of your models, no matter the damage.

CEO Kasen
05-07-2009, 04:27
They're worth their cost in merged platoons; If you've got a huge 30 to 50-man squad, making sure that First Rank Fire/Bring It Down/Fire On My Target test passes is a reasonable bargain at 5 points.

That said, I really think they should instead allow you to issue orders at infinite range rather than make existing orders clearer.

Bookwrak
05-07-2009, 04:29
They would definitely need a significant point boost to balance the powerful advantage that would grant.


Compared to the old vox-caster YES.
I really really really hate the new vox-caster, for a leadership test they will fail anyway at Ld7 who cares?I say cut them off of the back of your models, no matter the damage.

You're having a bit of trouble with the math, aren't you? You have a 58% of passing a LD 7 check, much less when you throw in a reroll.

CEO Kasen
05-07-2009, 04:31
You have a 58% of passing a LD 7 check, much less when you throw in a reroll.

Parsing that sentence... Much... Less... When... You... Throw...

Aaaanyway...

Aren't all the Guard squads Ld8 with that mandatory Sergeant?

Bathawk
05-07-2009, 04:49
"Can you hear me now"?

"umm Colonel? I'm just ten feet away"

"Good!"

Bookwrak
05-07-2009, 05:47
Parsing that sentence... Much... Less... When... You... Throw...

Aaaanyway...

Aren't all the Guard squads Ld8 with that mandatory Sergeant?

I'm sorry, is English your second language? What do you need help with?

susu.exp
05-07-2009, 06:22
The problem appears to be that 83% is not less than 58%. And even less far less...

ehlijen
05-07-2009, 08:23
The range is not determined by how far his voice carries, but instead by how aware he is of his surroundings and those of the squad. He is on a battlefield instead of looking down on it like the player is. That's also why a higher rank increases the range; it's not because he yells louder, but because his tactical observation skill is superior.

Also, look at the cadian helmets, those boxes on the ears must be some sort of comgear. And the seargent heads even clearly have headsets.
What voxes represent is a dedicated communications trooper with high quality reception gear. It has no more range than the normal gear in battefield terms, but the reception quality is higher.

Bunnahabhain
05-07-2009, 11:12
My thoughts.

GW haven't got voxes to feel right right for quite a number of codexs. The version in this codex isn't too bad.

In 10 man squads, they're not really worth it, but in a 20-30 man unit, to make sure that order goes off, they are a good investment.. Ehlijen has the most sensible background reasoning for the current rules set.

If you really don't like them, then stick them on the shelf, and paint up another few guardsmen to replace them, or do as I often do. I don't pay the points for voxes, but the models are there. Lack of supplies, atmospheric interference or some other reason causes the voxes to not work, so they're just there to look good.

isaac
05-07-2009, 11:20
Try this out. Commissar/Vox caster in a 10 man squad. Now you can enjoy the benefits of a Vox at Ld9 (with re-roll) and depending on the mission you can blob your comm squad with other ones...

StefDa
05-07-2009, 12:28
If you merge 3 squads, add one vox-caster and one Commissar, you've got yourself a nice unit right there. Especially if you get three of those. Give them all assault weapons (no heavy weapons) and they'll conquer most things for you :)

Bookwrak
05-07-2009, 16:14
The problem appears to be that 83% is not less than 58%. And even less far less...

Okay, I see where you're going wrong. 'Much less' is a phrase used when the original conditions are achievable, and then you make them easier. "He can hit the bullseye 9/10 blindfolded, much less if you actually let him see the target."

Imperious was claiming that it's exceedingly difficult to pass a LD 7 check, ignoring the fact that you have a better than even chance of making it in the first place, much less that if you add in the reroll, the chance of failure is only about 17%.

CEO Kasen
05-07-2009, 16:19
I'm aware of the expression, but it seemed a very awkward one to use in the midst of a statistical discussion. :p

laudarkul
05-07-2009, 16:40
For a 10 men squad it's not worth...For a 2-3 ten men squads merged in a bigger unit the vox begin to worth the investments.In the old codex I use it but in time I give it up to use them (iron discipline and cod were enough for infantry squads for Ld tests and regrouping).

Imperius
05-07-2009, 16:42
You're having a bit of trouble with the math, aren't you? You have a 58% of passing a LD 7 check, much less when you throw in a reroll.

No I'm not, you need 3 guardsmen to die for a leadership test. You firstly knock out the Seargeant, because of the stupid mandatory Laspistol+CCW, then you take out 2 ordinary Guardsmen.
You now have LD 4, also when is the last time you only lost 3? I can honestly say that I've never lost less than 3 Guardsmen in a squad from being shot at or having been forced into close combat.

We can now RELY on them failing the morale test, and be grateful if they do overcome that 25% chance (usually less) of passing a morale test.

Bookwrak
05-07-2009, 16:53
And how is any of that relevant to this thread?

You're not issuing orders to units in CC anyways, so leadership penalties are irrelevant. They're testing against at least LD 7 to pass orders.

Why would you knock out the Sarge first? Do you hate laspistols that much that you deliberately sabotage your chances of testing against LD 8?

Xenobane
05-07-2009, 18:46
No I'm not, you need 3 guardsmen to die for a leadership test. You firstly knock out the Seargeant, because of the stupid mandatory Laspistol+CCW...

Woah, woah! Why would you do that? You'd actually value a single BS3 lasgun over +1 Ld for the whole squad? Unless you're actively pursuing a failed test that seems a very poor move to me.

Imperius
05-07-2009, 19:10
I would rather have 2 las-shots run away than one las-shot at a MAXIMUM of 12".

Bloodknight
05-07-2009, 19:16
You now have LD 4, also when is the last time you only lost 3? I can honestly say that I've never lost less than 3 Guardsmen in a squad from being shot at or having been forced into close combat.

It doesn't make sense to kill the sergeant first unless you want to fail your LD check. And LD only drops to 4 if you lose those 3 dudes in CC and inflict no casualties back. Your post reads as if you apply that modifier to shooting casualties, I hope you don'T play it that way.

Gaargod
05-07-2009, 19:17
I don't know what rules you're playing by, but:

A) Leadership is only ever modified (unless by funky special rules such as psyker squads) by being BEATEN in combat, by the amount you lost by.

B) Losing models does not affect your leadership for shooting morale checks.

C) You're issuing orders anyways, why the hell would shooting casualties matter?

D) Why would you knock out the sergeant - 1 lasgun is not worth losing LD8 (and an extra 2CC attacks, for lols).



As for Vox casters - its not really a radio system. Its a great big recording machine, so when they are issued an order and fail to recognise it, they simply play the recording back.