PDA

View Full Version : Inclusion of -1 Armour Save weapons?



Genrazn
05-07-2009, 13:23
I seem to notice the main problem with 40k is that you really need to rely on weapons that ignore armour saves or hope to god instant kill them with a failed save.

Wondering what your thoughts in including units that make those pesky 3+ saves into 4+ for relatively cheaper price.

Deus
05-07-2009, 13:40
Well GW wanted to get away from that because altering saves is a fantasy thing, while 40k is about good use of AP. This is atleast 1 of the reasons behind removing the "4+ is the best save against choppers" rule.

Bunnahabhain
05-07-2009, 13:46
The omnipresent 3+ save problem is not nearly so bad now as it was in the heigh of 4th ed.

- We have more non marine lists that aren't an uphill battle, so you're facing fewer 3+ saves to start with. So weigh of fire is more useful than high AP marine killers.

-4+ cover saves are everywhere in 5th, further devaluing the AP stuff, and making weigh of fire more useful.

Between them, this has turned plasma et al from the no brainer choice, to the situational weapons they should be- very effective against the right target, but expensive overkill against the wrong ones. The pricing of these high weapons has only sometimes taken this into account.

This was heightened by having too few AP3 weapons about, so AP2 was used instead, devaluing 2+ saves. This has unfortunately lead to the newest 2+ save units being considerably improved.

You're proposing a limited form of Armour save modifiers. Good idea, but they simply won't fit into 40k without major revisions of, or a totally new set of the game mechanics.

Genrazn
05-07-2009, 13:50
WEll I always thought stuff like ASsault marines or wyches banshees would have some form of armour piercing weapons insteadl of just laying it on thick with a bunch of attacks.

-1 armour save would be a good compromise I thought.

Vyperchild
05-07-2009, 13:56
I'd be okay with -1 save weapons, but only insofar as them being a unique luxury. I don't want 40K to get tangled up with modifiers, but a weapon here or there would be okay. Particularly as a combat alternative to Rending etc.

grissom2006
05-07-2009, 14:01
got so say played for many many years and don't miss the save modifiers in 40k one bit there was to many of them

Ekranoplan
05-07-2009, 15:50
Armor save modifiers are nice, but its too late to really incorporate them into 40k.

On a somewhat related note, I always though power weapons and power fists should have an AP value. Guard would probably have ap 3 power weapons, and marines could probably get access to ap 2, for instance. It would certainly give alot more options when it came to balancing and pricing these items. Remember the 25 point guard power fist of ages past?

imperial_communist
05-07-2009, 16:15
Armor save modifiers are nice, but its too late to really incorporate them into 40k.

On a somewhat related note, I always though power weapons and power fists should have an AP value. Guard would probably have ap 3 power weapons, and marines could probably get access to ap 2, for instance. It would certainly give alot more options when it came to balancing and pricing these items. Remember the 25 point guard power fist of ages past?
a power weapon is a power weapon it would be the same value for guard inquisition or marines as they are all forgeworld/artificier made and therefore would have a similar design.

Arkanthaes
05-07-2009, 16:29
a power weapon is a power weapon it would be the same value for guard inquisition or marines as they are all forgeworld/artificier made and therefore would have a similar design.

Not really. There are so many different forge worlds that atleast some would have a more powerful but more expensive design, and as the Guard always get equipped on the cheap, they ain't getting those.

The Close Combat Ap idea is one I've had for a while. I personally think it's a good way to make things more interesting.

massey
05-07-2009, 16:36
I think it would just make things more complicated. Then you get poorly balanced rules. Like the ork choppa, which made Terminators worthless.

For mankind
05-07-2009, 16:40
NO a Power Weapon with AP would be a pretty bad idea, at first where does it say guard always get the cheapest? OK some regiments do, but vostoryans for exampel get the best stuff guard is allowed to have.

And most of the time a Power Weapon is not very usefull in the hands of and Impeial Guard officer, thanks to strength and Ini 3.

No, no Armor modifiers at all, you ignore the armor or you do not, that is easy and it works well.
Why repair something that is not really broken?

Bookwrak
05-07-2009, 16:40
Because what the game really needs is for the guard to be made even worse in CC than they already are.