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View Full Version : I don't fully understand the charging rules (Manoeuvering and Aligning)



Shadowfax
05-07-2009, 20:32
The rules in question are the ones on page 21-22. I find them too brief and vague to really feel like I understand them.

Under the heading "Manoeuvering During a Charge" you find the requirement that the charging unit wheel in order to bring the maximum number of models from both sides into combat. This suggests that the number of models who will eventually fight is limited by the position/distance of the chargers.

However, the guidelines for aligning are all too brief, imo. They allow for the charging unit to move farther than it's max charge distance, so do you always align the unit so that the entire front rank is touching the enemy?

Or is the alignment just a sort of hinge-like swing movement that straightens up the chargers against the enemies?

Witchblade
05-07-2009, 21:10
You try to maximise models using normal charge movement (double movement, single wheel). After (!) hitting the enemy's lines, your unit may make a free align move to line up the combatants in a straight line. This align move may cause your unit to move further than twice its movement rate.

Note that you must always maximise the number of models in combat.

See diagram 22.1.

Damocles8
05-07-2009, 21:17
you can check out the GW site's Empire Tactica on Detachments....it has a nice diagram for you....

rtunian
05-07-2009, 21:19
Or is the alignment just a sort of hinge-like swing movement that straightens up the chargers against the enemies?

essentially.
there was a long winded discussion of this in another thread, but i'm sure that will be rehashed here :p

if it's the case that the extra movement can't be completed by the charger (because of terrain/units in the way), you can wheel the charged unit a bit to form the battle line. this can be subject to some serious abuse though

there is no "you always fit the front rank", you have to nip that assumption before it takes root. if you are charging straight ahead, then yes, you will probably get the whole rank in, but when you are charging at angles, that's when you lose frontage.

for instance:
-----------------------------
---------------OOOOOO-----
---------------OOOOOO-----
---------------OOOOOO-----
-----------------------------
-----------------------------
-----------------------------
---XXXXXX------------------
---XXXXXX------------------
---XXXXXX------------------
-----------------------------

if X charges O, assuming that it has an 8" charge reach, and has to wheel 2" to the right, and will complete the charge 6" later when it touches the lower lefthand corner of the O...

then the O will be touching in the middle of the X unit somewhere, and the X unit will then wheel back to the left to line up with the O unit, and less than their whole front ranks will be touching each other


if X charges O, assuming that it has an 8" charge reach, but it can complete the charge 4" later instead of 6" later...

then it would wheel 4" so that it makes contact with O closer to the left-hand corner of X, resulting in an even bigger wheel than in the last example, and more models in base to base contact


in short:
it depends on the relative distances, frontages, and charge angle

Arnizipal
06-07-2009, 11:09
However, the guidelines for aligning are all too brief, imo. They allow for the charging unit to move farther than it's max charge distance, so do you always align the unit so that the entire front rank is touching the enemy?No. There is an appendix (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m470856_Warhammer_FAQ_2008-02_Edition.pdf) (see page 7) to the rules that lets move sideways and get more models in combat after a "clipping" charge. My gaming group played with this appendix, but it's not part of the core rules, so most tournaments don't use it. Best to check with your opponent beforehand.


Or is the alignment just a sort of hinge-like swing movement that straightens up the chargers against the enemies?Yup, that's basically it. As soon as the unit touches its enemy, it swings along to align itself and that's the end of the charge.

Culven
06-07-2009, 16:10
No. There is an appendix (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m470856_Warhammer_FAQ_2008-02_Edition.pdf) (see page 7) to the rules that lets move sideways and get more models in combat after a "clipping" charge.
So that's where that came from. I've had players try this in several games, but they couldn't provide a rule allowing it. Though, they used it to "Redress the Ranks" instead of performing a Reform. Thank you for pointing this out. Now I know that it isn't a rule, more of a house rule.

Arnizipal
06-07-2009, 16:54
Yeah, we houseruled it as well. We play that you can use any movement you have left over after reaching the enemy to slide sideways.

EvC
06-07-2009, 17:38
Why don't you just use that movement to get into the best position for the maximisation in the first place..?

MSU
06-07-2009, 18:33
Now taking that one step further.
If you have units:

-----OOOOOOO-------
-----OOOOOOO-------
-----OOOOOOO-------
---XXXXXX-----------
---XXXXXX-----------

When are you allowed to slide over the X unit or the O unit? (using the rulebook, not the house-rules appendix)

1.) After the charge?
2.) After the first combat, the winner can move over?
3.) Never?

In reading the rules, I would say never. If you win combat, you could take models from the back ranks and increase frontage, but you can never slide the whole unit over completely. Is this the correct way to do it?

Arnizipal
06-07-2009, 21:29
Why don't you just use that movement to get into the best position for the maximisation in the first place..?
You mean by wheeling during the charge? It's not always possible (due to the position of other units or terrain for example. I admit it does take away some of the guessing involved with charging (a good wheel is more difficult to set up).

When are you allowed to slide over the X unit or the O unit? (using the rulebook, not the house-rules appendix)

1.) After the charge?
2.) After the first combat, the winner can move over?
3.) Never?

In reading the rules, I would say never. If you win combat, you could take models from the back ranks and increase frontage, but you can never slide the whole unit over completely. Is this the correct way to do it?
You are correct. Sliding is not allowed by the core rules.

rtunian
06-07-2009, 22:22
Now taking that one step further.
If you have units:

-----OOOOOOO-------
-----OOOOOOO-------
-----OOOOOOO-------
---XXXXXX-----------
---XXXXXX-----------

When are you allowed to slide over the X unit or the O unit? (using the rulebook, not the house-rules appendix)

1.) After the charge?
2.) After the first combat, the winner can move over?
3.) Never?

In reading the rules, I would say never. If you win combat, you could take models from the back ranks and increase frontage, but you can never slide the whole unit over completely. Is this the correct way to do it?

"winning units with enemies to their front can perform a free change formation manoeuvre to increase the number of models in their front rank by a maximum of five"

changing formation is a reform manoeuver. assuming the X's won the combat, the X on the left that is unengaged, and the X behind it, would shuffle through the 2nd rank, and the X on the right edge of the 2nd rank would move up to the 1st, and the one next to him would slide over behind him

it would go from
--------------------
-------OOOOOOO---
-----ABCDEF
-----GHIJKL

to
--------------------
-------OOOOOOO---
------BCDEFL
------AGHIJK

that is a valid and legal reform manoeuver, and since you can do a free reform after winning combat, i'd say you could do this. it's not really a slide, because BCDEF are all still in the same spots (important if champs/chars are concerned)

Ravensgard
07-07-2009, 10:54
I don't see any difference, you still have 6 models in front row.

the warhammer rules involving moving manuevers are difficult for me too

EvC
07-07-2009, 12:37
changing formation is a reform manoeuver.

No, it's an "add more models to front" change formation. If it was a reform you could never do the move you propose as your unit's centre would have to stay on the same spot. What you could do though is:

--------------------
-------OOOOOOO---
-----ABCDEF
-----GHIJKL

to
--------------------
-------OOOOOOO---
-----ABCDEFGHIJK
-----L

Bringing 5 models forward to expand the fight. However this is unlikely, you're more likely to have single ranks of cavalry clipping, or big unwiedly blocks of infantry.

rtunian
07-07-2009, 12:54
oh, i skimmed over that "center point" part :(

guess it's a poorly thought out rule.

the only time it's useful in a practical sense is if you go in with a 2-3 man front but you "could" do a bigger front. oh i suppose you could drop it to 1 rank like EvC laughingly suggests, but really, who's going to do that? maybe khornate chaos warriors with 2 hand weapons. anything else though?

or to turn. but the first half of the rule is almost a waste of space

EvC
07-07-2009, 15:14
I think the only thing it's useful for is Beastmen, to let them expand frontage to 5 models when fighting enemies with smaller bases after having ranked up 4 wide originally...

MSU
07-07-2009, 15:27
Yes, that is the way I was thinking it worked, you can only expand frontage, not reform. It is useful for Minotaurs/Trolls/Ogres too though: if you run them 5 models at a time, either 3/2 or 4/1. They take up too much space to walk around 5 bases wide, but the extra attacks or vomit on a wide frontage can be useful after winning combat. The problem is getting them back into the 3/2 or 4/1 shape after winning the combat.

Culven
16-07-2009, 01:29
It is also useful when fighting a unit of weaker enemies. Then the additional attacks will be more useful than the rank bonus.

Another situation in which it works well is when there are 5+ ranks in the unit. The additional ranks serve no purpose (and may have existed purely so that the unit had a narrow frontage to facilitate movement), and after winning a combat, the frontage could be expanded to grant more attacks while losing nothing in return.

Shadowfax
19-07-2009, 09:21
No. There is an appendix (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m470856_Warhammer_FAQ_2008-02_Edition.pdf) (see page 7) to the rules that lets move sideways and get more models in combat after a "clipping" charge. My gaming group played with this appendix, but it's not part of the core rules, so most tournaments don't use it. Best to check with your opponent beforehand.
Yup, that's basically it. As soon as the unit touches its enemy, it swings along to align itself and that's the end of the charge.
I finally got a chance to look at the appendix in question tonight and it has just confused me further.

What exactly is the difference between a "clipping" charge and any other charge that fails to maximize frontage? Is there a difference, or is clipping just the catch-all term for any charge like that?

nosferatu1001
19-07-2009, 09:37
Pretty much the same - a clipped charge is any less than maximal contact charge. However most people when playing would only consider a clipped charge to be the more extreme cases, where only 1 or 2 models get in contact on each side.