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Ironmonger
09-07-2009, 03:19
How effective have the Kroot been in 5th so far? I've NEVER seen them in action, but with their basic squads, Krootox/Hounds as upgrades, and FW goodness, they seem like they should rock as an assault/mildly shooty army.

Eh wot?

Creeping Dementia
09-07-2009, 03:23
They're pretty good, they're a unit that people either love or are just indifferent to. I personally don't like the models so I don't field any, though I deffinately see the value they have. I wouldn't see them as an assault unit really, more of a harrassment/shooting/alternate-deployment unit that can assault if the right target is around. They just don't have the toughness or armor to be considered a dedicated assault unit.

big squig
09-07-2009, 03:29
A lot of novice players see kroot as an assault unit and just charge them down field...
They're not, they're a counter attack unit. And the new reserve rules / out flank rules seriously helped them out.

Ironmonger
09-07-2009, 04:15
Well, I mainly said assault because of their hounds mixed in, and the Karlocs (especially the Great Knarlocs). Their shooty weapons are decent, as is their one special character (still legal...?).

Creeping Dementia
09-07-2009, 04:26
No he's not technically legal, you could probably still use him in friendly games though. Their guns are actually pretty good for the cost, only slightly under bolters.

Vestigialante
09-07-2009, 04:58
If it's Kroot Mercenaries you're talking about, the entire armylist is sadly no longer tourney legal.

We're all forced to use counts-as now, if we want to field them.

senorcardgage
09-07-2009, 06:03
I think kroot are awesome. You can have huge squads outflanking and either rapidfiring or assaulting things like crazy!

Leave the krootox at home, though.

Grimtuff
09-07-2009, 06:38
If it's Kroot Mercenaries you're talking about, the entire armylist is sadly no longer tourney legal.


:rolleyes:
Please don't use that phrase again. How many times does this have to be drilled in? Tournaments are responsible for making their own rules and deciding what armies you can use. Random tournament rules=/=casual play.

I'll be damned if I am unable to use an army because a Tourney in Timbuktoo says I cannot. :eyebrows:

Bodysnatcher
09-07-2009, 06:40
Kroot in Tau fill a tactical gap. Nothing beats them for eating Imp. Guard artillery.

Bregalad
09-07-2009, 09:50
Just as a reminder: The "Kompletely Kroot" website ( http://z8.invisionfree.com/KompletelyKroot/index.php?act=idx ) has made this (fan-made) Kodex Kroot 5th edition:
http://trobarts.customer.netspace.net.au/5th_ed_kroot_mercenaries_army_list_by_kompletely_k root_V5.84.pdf

Only thing official in 5th edition is the Apocalypse data sheet on Kroot.

rev
09-07-2009, 12:01
Just read that dex its pretty cool! I've always had a thing for the beakies but hate the look of tau.. now I'm thinking.... NO! NO MORE NEW PROJECTS....!! *mutters*

Lotoc_Sabbath
09-07-2009, 12:05
I think that if you know hoe to really use them, kroots are great!!!:D

Ironmonger
10-07-2009, 07:39
Just as a reminder: The "Kompletely Kroot" website ( http://z8.invisionfree.com/KompletelyKroot/index.php?act=idx ) has made this (fan-made) Kodex Kroot 5th edition:
http://trobarts.customer.netspace.net.au/5th_ed_kroot_mercenaries_army_list_by_kompletely_k root_V5.84.pdf

Only thing official in 5th edition is the Apocalypse data sheet on Kroot.

Yeah, I've read through it, seems decent: basically just all the 'official' stuff compiled with an eye towards 5th... not a bad thing.

I just found the Apoc datasheet tonight, and I think it along does a decent enough job of replicating the old chapter approved list for 5th.

I think along with my Squats and Genestealer Cult, Kroot Mercs maybe have to be added to the growing number of 'old tyme' armies I'm working on!;)

Bregalad
10-07-2009, 07:54
I think along with my Squats and Genestealer Cult, Kroot Mercs maybe have to be added to the growing number of 'old tyme' armies I'm working on!;)
If you ever start Fantasy, go to www.chaos-dwarfs.com then ;)
They have a nice fan-zine there!

Ironmonger
10-07-2009, 08:14
Oh, I've been tempted...:evilgrin:

Tomorrow, when it's light outside, I'm gonna take the first pics of my Squats... real Squats... done up right for the beginnings of a new plog:cheese:

But I have decided that I'm gonna do a Kroot force. First will be, of course, a s***-load of Knarloc from FW: Great, Riders and all! I wonder... why was a 'Knarlossus' with, like, a howdah stretched-hide platform for transport and two bolt-throwers/Kroot Guns never made? Too Squiggoth-ish? Hmmm...

Sholto
10-07-2009, 09:02
Kroot squads are close to essential in an all-comers Tau army. They fill many roles that Fire Warriors are simply unable to, although assaulting is not one of them.


Kroot in Tau fill a tactical gap. Nothing beats them for eating Imp. Guard artillery.

Amen, brother. My last game two squads outflanked, one on the left, the other on the right. One squad immoblised two Chimeras, the other squad hit a squadron of Basilisks, killed one and blew the guns off the other two.

5th ed IG? Bring 'em on! :D

Sholto

Deadnight
10-07-2009, 12:02
How effective have the Kroot been in 5th so far? I've NEVER seen them in action, but with their basic squads, Krootox/Hounds as upgrades, and FW goodness, they seem like they should rock as an assault/mildly shooty army.

Eh wot?



Kroot are a mixed bag in 5th.
they've gotten some new advantages, and new disadvantages.

OK, so they're cheap. they cost 2pts more than a guardsman, get better WS,S, attacks, and a boltgun(with worse AP) on top of it. Plus they can infiltrate. and with kroot hounds, they've become quite a decent counter attack unit. hounds strike before marines a lot of the time.

they've been buffed by fifth in the sense that they can outflank. its very useful. also, with woods now counting as giving a 4+ save, kroot get a 3+ save in woods.

last advantage i feel is the one where if you lose a morale check, you can choose to be pinned. it helps them stay in the game a bit longer.


BUT they have been nerfed in a lot of ways.
no more partial hits for templates. if a blast weapon, or a flamer comes along, your kroot are toast.
fifth has more cover denying weapons as a whole anyway. which severely hurts kroot.
new assault grenade rules are severely hampering. it used to be that being assault in cover meant you struck first, or at worst, simultaneously. Now if you assault a unit in cover and you have frag g's, you will strike at initiatiuve. so kroot, with their low ld get cut up severely before they can strike back. kroot hounds help a bit, but it is still a huge hurt.
new morale rules. kroot are decent in cc. with enough numbers, they'll take a lot of stuff down, but they'll really do well only in the first turn. they dont have the staying power. and with only t3 and no armour save, lots will die in cc. and the new fifth rules have that thing where casualties received count as a negative mod in cc. and with already low ld, if they lose a cc, they will run.

catbarf
10-07-2009, 14:25
Kroot squads are close to essential in an all-comers Tau army. They fill many roles that Fire Warriors are simply unable to, although assaulting is not one of them.



Amen, brother. My last game two squads outflanked, one on the left, the other on the right. One squad immoblised two Chimeras, the other squad hit a squadron of Basilisks, killed one and blew the guns off the other two.

Perhaps I'm just unfamiliar with the rules, but I thought Tau have the better rifles and are more suited to busting light armor?

Creeping Dementia
10-07-2009, 15:09
Perhaps I'm just unfamiliar with the rules, but I thought Tau have the better rifles and are more suited to busting light armor?

They do, but kroot can get better positioning. A stat line is not the only thing that makes a unit usefull.

cuda1179
10-07-2009, 16:04
I've only used my "tau" army a couple times in 5th edition, but I am almost sure of one thing. If you are going to take kroot, take more than one squad. In my army the only tau units are shadowsun, a unit of firewarriors, two broadsides, and some stealth suits. The rest of the 2000 points is spent on kroot, kroot hounds, Great knarlocks, and when I am allowed to use him, Angkor Prok.

Kroot are NOT close combat specialists. That being said they aren't half bad when used in mass. Prok does a GREAT job of helping this too. The Great Knarlocks aren't super-assaulters either, but the price is right and they can definatley ruin the day for any non-powerfist unit.

With that being said, any time 90 kroot models outflank and shoot it's going to be a bad day for any Imperial guard, eldar, or ork army. even Marines will fail some saves. A lot of vehicles will be toast.

Sholto
10-07-2009, 18:40
Perhaps I'm just unfamiliar with the rules, but I thought Tau have the better rifles and are more suited to busting light armor? 5th edition is all about mobility, and therefore also all about denying mobility. Kroot can infiltrate to block enemy infiltrators or Scout moves, to deny deep strikers, drop pods or daemons space to deploy near high value targets and, as a bonus, can outflank themselves. They can move through woods & jungles without penalty. For units without transports they can cause a lot of grief all over the table.

They are cheap and can be taken in great numbers, letting the Tau player flood an area of the board for any of the above purposes.

They can get 2+ saves in woods & jungles and are Troops. Stick 20 of them on your home objective in some trees and have them go to ground. They will shrug off practically any ranged attack.

They get S4 WS4 attacks at I5 - up to 36 per squad.

They get 3 attacks each on the charge.

They have S4 guns.

They are 3-4 points cheaper than Fire Warriors.

Kroot are indispensible.

Sholto

Bregalad
10-07-2009, 18:47
I wonder... why was a 'Knarlossus' with, like, a howdah stretched-hide platform for transport and two bolt-throwers/Kroot Guns never made? Too Squiggoth-ish? Hmmm...
Yeah, why? ;)
Here some other pics for inspiration. The last pic is the official Kroot building from Dawn of War.

BTW, I use the Star Wars Sand crawler as the mobile home for my Kroot, either the Kenner one ( http://www.actiontoys.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=123&Product_Code=SWSAND&Category_Code=SWEXCV ), a terracotta one ( http://sandcrawler.com/jawas/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=129 ) or this free paper model ( http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~sf-papercraft/Gallery/Sand/sand.html ) plus the Star Wars miniatures Desert Skiff as fast mobile transport (for use with Dark Eldar Raider rules).

Ironmonger
10-07-2009, 19:46
Thanks for the pics, I've seen most of them but not that first... the big ol' guy with the platform. Knarlossus: you can quote me on it! I don't know which would be a better sculpt though: that huge version of the Krootox, or a Great Knarloc half again the size of the FW one? Leaning towards the latter... damn, now I've gotta go do a Datasheet...;)

Ironmonger
10-07-2009, 20:19
And I was wondering: what's wrong with the Krootox? Is it the low Toughness?

Creeping Dementia
10-07-2009, 20:27
It removes the ability to infiltrate, which is one of the big reasons to take kroot in the first place. If you could still infiltrate with them then they would be much more common.

ReveredChaplainDrake
10-07-2009, 20:33
Yeah, why? ;)
My first reaction wasn't "too Squiggoth", but "too Stegadon".

Here some other pics for inspiration.
I also attempted some Kroot Pathfinder conversions (see my sig).

Ironmonger
11-07-2009, 07:54
Still more cool pics. I'm gonna try a stretched hide howdah/travois kinda platform, for looks if nothing else.

I'm still hung up on the Krootox, though. It's relatively cheap for a wound-absorber, hits hard in CC, and has the equivalent to an autocannon at short range. I love it, and I haven't even played with one yet!

As well, can anyone give me any experience with twin-linked Kroot Guns instead of the Bolt Thrower for the Mounted Great Knarloc? Str 7 re-roll with rapid fire seems good?

Taipan
11-07-2009, 12:27
Yeah, Kroot are awesome. Mine have killed about 6 tanks all up in the course of their career. They are the bane of MBT's and backfield artillery. Rapid-fire into rear armour always does more than my railguns (I kid you not, game after game).

I'm considering taking bigger units though; 10-man always seem to die too quickly. Something like;

20 x Carnivores, 10 x Kroot Hounds
(200 points)

Outflank that into the enemy and laugh. They're a lot like Orks; they die a lot, but they can't be ignored and thats firepower the enemy can't get back. If they reach combat, the Kroot Hounds go at I5 and will cause some damage, then they get pawned off against any enemy attacks back, letting the Carnivores live and inflict maximum damage when I3 rolls around.

Ironmonger
11-07-2009, 23:35
If any mod wants to merge this over to the Tactica: Kroot Mercenaries, feel free:D

Turbo_MMX
12-07-2009, 01:00
:rolleyes:
Please don't use that phrase again. How many times does this have to be drilled in? Tournaments are responsible for making their own rules and deciding what armies you can use. Random tournament rules=/=casual play.

I'll be damned if I am unable to use an army because a Tourney in Timbuktoo says I cannot. :eyebrows:

Amen to that. Here in Australia ive been able to use My Kroot army in 2 tournaments so far this year using the Kompletely Kroot Codex rules! (Placed 9th out of 80 and 56th out of 98)

Ironmonger, great to see another potential Kroot player added to the fold. I cant belive we never thought of the name Knarlossus before now!?

When the dex was being compiled we did consider adding something like you said into the rules but ultimatly thought it was to Orky n left it out. But I did have a go at making an apoc rule set for the big Kroot ox unit Bregaland has posted an image of.

http://trobarts.customer.netspace.net.au/Kroot%20Beasty%20BW.pdf

Now that ive had a little more experiance with making these things im gonna go back and redo it. But you get the Idea.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Clicky Click click! Kroot Forever!! :D

Ironmonger
12-07-2009, 05:07
That's pretty decent looking, but I'm afraid it's too big and... well... just too ORKY for my tastes!:p I'm fine tuning the first set of rules for a transporting Great Knarloc (simple, not too expensive, not a gargantuan creature, but can mount a tail (;)) weapon and carry a small kindred with hounds). The conversions I'm working on will be sort of an oval howdah platform of stretched hide with slightly raised semi-circle, partially railed weapons platforms... I'll post a pic in a bit.

Thinking about it more, a BIG critter like the data sheet one might be cool... it's just the Super Ion Cannon that I think is really bugging me... and the strength:D Maybe instead of the Ion thingy have a 'Kroot Cannon' supported by Twin-linked Kroot Guns and a number of Hunting Rifles on mounts. Kroot Cannon could be... 48" str 8 AP3 Heavy 1, Blast?

I can say this: my army will be all Kroot and be... well... kinda shooty:wtf: