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View Full Version : What if Krieg were plastic?



Lawkeeper
09-07-2009, 06:10
The Krieg ARE expensive. Wouldn't it be better if Forge World (or GW, I don't care which) started producing in plastic. Resin keeps a lot of detail, I know. But look at the new IG command squads. Those have excellent IMO whle being plastic.
If the DKoK would be plastic the less fortunate could play them as well.

And I want a set of separate Krieg arms, preferably per squad!

nippon
09-07-2009, 06:16
as a person that does cast in resin i see that it would be frivolous to cast the kreig in plastic . it would loose so much detail . if you notice on the baneblade there are rivets that stick straight up . well that's because the mold was made in aluminum and it has to be a perfect half . so when you de-mold the plastic there are no undercuts and the de-mold has to be a perfect 90 degrees . resin is more forgiving since the mold is made of rubber .

Inquisitor Engel
09-07-2009, 06:17
I've never seen a poorly painted Krieg army, and that pleases me.

Whilst I know everyone improves over time, some people just don't care and that's not fair to those who DON'T have the money, but make their all-plasic-2nd-hand-eBay-2nd edition-all-they-could-afford armies look AMAZINGLY painted.

They're expensive enough to justify above-par paintjobs for the most part, and that's good. It raises the level of the hobby to see well painted, beautiful miniatures.

Solar_Eclipse
09-07-2009, 06:20
It would make me so annoyed since the $1000 ive spent on my $1000 krieg army would have basically been wasted.

ARRRGH!

But do it anyway, dammit!

Khornies & milk
09-07-2009, 06:28
Nah, leave them as Resin only I reckon...there has to be something to strive for.

WUNDERWAFFEN
09-07-2009, 07:11
It seems like I have been building forever. Plastic can produce the level of detail Forge World & resin has in general and can even supply more detail (just look at plane/car/warfare models from tamiya/hasegawa/trumpeter...) The molds or dies are just so expensive and are only reasonable if you are injecting/casting thousands. I remember when GW just started with plastic, ugly ugly things, and now their new kits are pulling me back into it. GW has always created gaming worthy and sturdy models. I love fw's krieg models and would love to field an army of them (one squad at a time at the moment.) Better would be a plastic multipiece/multipose set by gw. Endless possibilities.

Tizz
09-07-2009, 07:20
I've never seen a poorly painted Krieg army, and that pleases me.

Whilst I know everyone improves over time, some people just don't care and that's not fair to those who DON'T have the money, but make their all-plasic-2nd-hand-eBay-2nd edition-all-they-could-afford armies look AMAZINGLY painted.

They're expensive enough to justify above-par paintjobs for the most part, and that's good. It raises the level of the hobby to see well painted, beautiful miniatures.

Agree 100%

Lotoc_Sabbath
09-07-2009, 07:53
'LOOK A FLYING PIG'

impossible, impossible if that would be real i'd love it and my wallet would get empty...

Ironmonger
09-07-2009, 09:17
I've never seen a poorly painted Krieg army, and that pleases me.

Whilst I know everyone improves over time, some people just don't care and that's not fair to those who DON'T have the money, but make their all-plasic-2nd-hand-eBay-2nd edition-all-they-could-afford armies look AMAZINGLY painted.

They're expensive enough to justify above-par paintjobs for the most part, and that's good. It raises the level of the hobby to see well painted, beautiful miniatures.

Exactly. I've said the same on another thread.

zetaplus
09-07-2009, 09:20
If they were plastic I'd have alot more if they could maintain the quality. But then I compare my Mars Alpha Leman Russ variants to the plastic kits and yeah. I'll stick to resin for now :D

ashc
09-07-2009, 10:25
I think I would propose to the person in the design studio who said 'hey, lets make these chaps in plastic' :D

As much as I would love to, I don't think I can afford Kreig as it currently stands :(

EVIL INC
09-07-2009, 12:37
Sorry, double post

EVIL INC
09-07-2009, 12:46
True, resin does hold more detail. It also warps, shatters when dropped, comes with loads of air bubbles. There are disadvantages as well as advantages. For the detail, it hold some more but for most players, not enough more to make it worth the price.
I would buy a few of them if they were plastic. I would not mind the slightly lower detail at all just as I am sure most other players wouldnt. As a matter of fact, I'm reasonably sure that if they were made plastic, GW itself would find that they paid for themselves in no time at all as well as provide a stable selling new range that would easily outstrip the sales of catachans and cadians.
The current korps players would likely fall into 2 camps. Camp one, "woo hoo, now I can REALLY bulk up my army and stop paying as much". Camp 2, "Good lord, now everyone will have an army of them and I wont be special anymore". The majority would probobly be camp 1.
That could free up time and resources in forgeworld to get started on the next great discovery they will make.
Will the change be made? likely not, it would make too much sense.


I've never seen a poorly painted Krieg army, and that pleases me.

Whilst I know everyone improves over time, some people just don't care and that's not fair to those who DON'T have the money, but make their all-plasic-2nd-hand-eBay-2nd edition-all-they-could-afford armies look AMAZINGLY painted.

They're expensive enough to justify above-par paintjobs for the most part, and that's good. It raises the level of the hobby to see well painted, beautiful miniatures.
I agree and disagree.
True, when people pay out a month's mortgage to but a 10 man squad, they will likely put the best paint job they can on the models. That doesnt mean that all owners of plastic gaurd do horrible paint jobs. My army is mostly cadian with some catachans. I paint every model as though it were a character model and have thus won every painting competition in tourneys and campaigns I have entered with them.
Well painted armies do indeed improve the hobby as a whole, but if you see a poorly painted army, blame the painter and thier laziness rather then the models. I'm willing to bet you that if I were to get a slightly less detailed (or even just as detailed) unit or two of krieg, you would not call my paint job horrible. A model shouldnt HAVE to be resin to be well painted. I know thats not exactly what you were saying and I apologize if you took it that way, I just feel that GW would make a bucketload of moneyif they were to switch and that extra income for the company who makes the game/models could improve the hobby as much as a few better paint jobs by players. Besdides, why should us poor folk ALWAYS have to suffer and go without? Throw us a bone and let us get a few of the cooler models too.

Bellygrub
09-07-2009, 12:57
I have seen a poorly painted Krieg army and it broke my soul a little.

I would love to see Krieg in plastic. Forgeworlds resin has been leaving much to be desired lately. Entirely to much flashing, detail loss to grittyness, air pockets. I just couldn't see myself forking out a thousand bucks only to have brittle resin pieces snapping and breaking and spending hours filling air pocket holes.

In plastic there is also no reason all the detail needs to be on the model right out of the mold. With a multipart kit, hoses, pouches, even the masks can all be done seperately giving the model even more detail.

squilverine
09-07-2009, 13:09
Whilst it would be nice to see Krieg done in plastic from a monetary point of view, GW will never do it. Resin miniatures are a lot cheaper to produce than plastic ones, that means that GW are making more profit by selling them through FW. Also when people in store ask about great coat guard and get directed to FW they see a whole raft of beautiful models they will also want. These also happen to be made from resin which again puts more money into GW's pockets.

From a more personal (and selfish) point of view, i like the fact that the higher prices put a lot of gamers off, it makes the Krieg army more of a rare sight and enables the owner to have something a bit special

As strange as it may sound, the idea of someone deliberately not painting models to a decent standard puts my back up, as I feel it is disrespectful to those who spend so long trying to make their miniatures look as good as possible. I would consider refusing to game against some one who had deliberately daubed their models in a bad paint job just to get past the models must be painted to play rules

EVIL INC
09-07-2009, 13:39
Actually, from a monatary point of view, GW would make more money from plastics then they do the resins.
While it costs more to make the moulds, they would sell more. Do the math. If you sell 10 units of resin krieg for $50 each you get $500. If for the same mould production cost, you could sell 100 units of plastic krieg at $25 a unit, you get $2500. Basic economics and comman sense tells you that they would make a higher profit from plastic krieg and free up FW resources so they can get startedmaking the next big thing and production time so they can start to get caught up on thier orders.
Nothing against you, but I take offence to the notion of deliberately makeing the nicer models so expensive they are out of the reach of all but the most rich gamers just for the sake of keeping it from them in order to go "nya nya, I can afford these and you cant. What SHOULD make your army special and stand out is the time and effort put into painting/converting rather then how thick your wallet is.
I agree with you on the idea of badly painted models or unpainted models. I would play the person anyway though. They just wouldnt get as many rematches as someone who cares enough to put effort into it.

Lord Hjamlar
09-07-2009, 13:42
What a dumb question...
If Krieg were made plastic instead of havin' 1000 pts of 'em I would have 10.000 pts of 'em, and they would be so popular that everyone would vomit on their sight.

Rick Blaine
09-07-2009, 13:58
How about plastic sci-fi greatcoats from a different company?

Urath
09-07-2009, 14:18
If the Krieg were plastic, I'd be all over them like white on rice.

ashc
09-07-2009, 14:20
How about plastic sci-fi greatcoats from a different company?

Are you hinting there is such a thing? and they look decent? :eyebrows:

Mannimarco
09-07-2009, 14:22
part of the appeal of a krieg army is how exclusive it is, not everybody has one and thats what makes it so cool

if everybody had one then nobody would even look twice at them when you put them on the table, its like the cadians/catachans, whens the last time you got excited looking across the board at that army?

Bellygrub
09-07-2009, 14:49
whens the last timew you got excited lookinng across the board at that army?

Everytime I see a completed, well painted and modeled army.

The "OHEMGEEEVERY1HASITSUXNOW!" thing doesn't float for me. If I like an army I like it. I don't care how many people have that same army.

Mojaco
09-07-2009, 14:50
As for never seeing badly painted krieg armies; their also pretty damn easy to paint. Drybrushing and washes, combined with the detail FW throws on there, makes Krieg very simple to do justice.

T_55
09-07-2009, 15:02
Well, i'd prefer it if they made plastic valhallans instead....

I never really liked the krieg models...

EVIL INC
09-07-2009, 15:08
Everytime I see a completed, well painted and modeled army.

The "OHEMGEEEVERY1HASITSUXNOW!" thing doesn't float for me. If I like an army I like it. I don't care how many people have that same army.
I have to totally agree with this. What makes an army great and good looking is how well it is painted/converted rather then how many dollers were put into it.
My own gaurd, people love to face (despite them not being the new shiney models) because I put a LOT of time and effort into them and it shows.

Ironmonger
09-07-2009, 18:08
I agree that other greatcoats would be better, especially Valhallans or Steel Legion.

Vaktathi
09-07-2009, 18:12
Are you hinting there is such a thing? and they look decent? :eyebrows:

Well...Pig Iron's Kolony militia aren't bad at all, they are just metal and have limited poses, although aren't much more than Cadians at this point. They aren't Krieg, but I think they are far and above better than say, Steel Legion.

Triggerdog
09-07-2009, 18:17
I dont want them to. If they started Making plastic Centaur Tractors for like $20 I would go to britain and kill everyone at Gamesworkshop because I already bought three of the FW ones at around $60 a pop.

Captain Micha
09-07-2009, 18:21
Go for it. Actually I know four players that haven't gotten into guard because of the fact that Krieg doesn't have plastic kits. They want plastic great coats. They can't afford the even more overpriced resin stuff.


Resin is overrated. Plastic is a thousand times better, it's more durable for a start two the detail level is comparable. Three, plastic glue actually works properly on plastic minis. Four, the plastic minis also tend to require much less work putting together as you aren't spending as much time removing Flash as you are painting and assembling plastic models combined typically. It's also much easier to convert with plastic minis than it is any other kind of mini. Resin also shatters like glass when it hits something, comes warped often, or pieces fail to fit together because the came out of the cast wrong.

swordwind
09-07-2009, 18:23
Death Korps are a license to print money. People will buy them whether they cost 1 or 100 and will do so until the next Forge World Guard army is released. Why would they sell them cheaper in plastic and reduce their own profits?

isaac
09-07-2009, 18:23
Take a look at the Steel Legion from Brother Argos, they are the best greatcoats (beside DKoK). If GW released either one of those in Plastic, they would have a winner on their hands. I frankly don't understand why GW has plastic catachans, but not plastic greatcoats. I understand cadians, they are generic sci-fi troops. But catachans?

Triggerdog
09-07-2009, 18:27
That would be like them smashing up their gold-out-of-thin-air machine and buying a horse instead.

pretty much

FW did take a hit with the plastic baneblade and now the plastic Valkyries and those took years to become a reality.

If anything GW should work on plasticing up some of their other guard ranges like Mordians, Praetorians, Tallarns, or Valhallans. Leave the Krieg and Elysians to the resin mongers.

Mannimarco
09-07-2009, 18:28
catachans were the first of the plastic multi part guard, they were released before the steel legion were even thought of

chaos0xomega
09-07-2009, 18:31
If Krieg were plastic... then I'd have about 1000 more USD... and I wouldnt feel like such an elitist pig... no thank you.


I have seen a poorly painted Krieg army and it broke my soul a little.



Yeah, I think it was on dakkadakka... made me cry.


While it costs more to make the moulds, they would sell more. Do the math. If you sell 10 units of resin krieg for $50 each you get $500. If for the same mould production cost, you could sell 100 units of plastic krieg at $25 a unit, you get $2500. Basic economics and comman sense tells you that they would make a higher profit from plastic krieg and free up FW resources so they can get startedmaking the next big thing and production time so they can start to get caught up on thier orders.

Right but the molds for the $50 resin krieg only COST about $50, if that, and the materials per casting is only something like 3 USD. The molds for the plastic krieg cost tens of thousands of dollars to produce. It would take more than 100 units of plastic krieg to pay off the molds, whereas the molds are fully paid for after 1 set of resin krieg.

EVIL INC
09-07-2009, 18:44
Death Korps are a license to print money. People will buy them whether they cost 1 or 100 and will do so until the next Forge World Guard army is released. Why would they sell them cheaper in plastic and reduce their own profits?
They would not be reducing profits, they would be greatly improving them (likely twice as much or more profit if they used plastic). This is because even though they would likely sell for half the cost, they would sell 5-10 times as many so the overall net gain would be much higher.
While the moulds would cost more to design, the moulds would be more durable and last longer. The added cost of the mould creation would not be enough to make a difference as the first days production of the models would pay for that and still have a tidy profit margin.

nippon
09-07-2009, 18:48
i disagree with the whole "cause it's resin it's gona be painted better" i had seen a kid no more than 13 years old save up all his money to get a heirophant and painted it up like a lobster . then varnish it and then put another coat of spray paint on it . needless to say i felt sorry for the thing .

anycase if one is able to afford anything there are still ones that just slap a coat of paint on it . it comes down to "is it affordable to make a dye for plastic models?" if DKOK were to be made in circulation in mass quantities . it would be in pewter . not that i wouldn't mind plastic . then again if it's plastic i would still pay for it at the price it's at now .

Cane
09-07-2009, 18:58
If there were plastic greatcoat Guardsmen it'd probably kill the sales of Cadians and Catachans.

Wouldn't necessarily have to be Krieg either, in fact I'd prefer if they went with a whole new planet entirely which would help keep their Forgeworld sales while expanding the 40k universe.

However since GW recently released new plastic kits for both Cadians and Catachans it'll probably be another decade before GW releases another plastic Guardsmen regiment if they do at all.....

Lawkeeper
14-07-2009, 19:30
However since GW recently released new plastic kits for both Cadians and Catachans it'll probably be another decade before GW releases another plastic Guardsmen regiment if they do at all.....

Yeah.. We're frakked either way, aren't we? Though plastic Valhallans would be cool, I'm in it for the greatcoat legs.