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View Full Version : Tomb kings and the casket of souls-was he cheating?



kahunadave
09-07-2009, 07:41
Hi folks, I recently came back from a tournament and in one of my games I came across a situation I haven't experienced before and I'm hoping you guys can help. It was against a Tomb Kings player who did something I thought sounded dodgy, but didn't say anything as I would rather play the game and discuss these sort of things at a later date.
Anyhow he was using a casket of Souls, but halfway through the game as I was about to engage it in combat, his heirophant decided to leave it using some sort of flying cloak.
Is this possible? I had presumed things like this and the anvil of doom etc the character was tied to it for the whole game.
In the end I didn't discuss it with him as I normally would, as I wanted to finish the game as soon as possible and avoid talking to him, (at the start of the game I caught him with a previous opponent getting the contents of my army list and as this is meant to be a closed army list tournament I considered it cheating, it was the first time I had to put down a bad sportsman mark)

I hope you guys can set my mind at rest

Artinam
09-07-2009, 08:03
He can do this, its no where mentioned in the Casket rules that he has to stay with the Casket. However, the whole casket is destroyed at the start of the tombking turn when it is no longer is crewed by a Lich (High) priest. Also he can't leave if the casket is in Combat, but that doesnt seem to apply to this situation.

Necromancy Black
09-07-2009, 09:44
Nothing stops him using the Cloak of Dunes to fly away from the casket but as stated, but at the beginning of the first tomb king turn with no priest within 1" and part of the casket unit, the whole casket and guards die.

Take note that this applies for any priest, not just the one that started with the casket. So he can have another priest join the unit and fly the first one away without destroying the casket and it's guards.

EvC
09-07-2009, 10:27
Yep, it's entirely possible. The Tomb King player can even do it entirely freely in his last turn, as it will never get to the "Tomb King player's next turn", so you won't even get the Casket's Points that way. I think I know who this is you're talking about too ;)

kahunadave
09-07-2009, 10:29
Ah right, I was thinking that the casket of souls and other such devices were purchased like mounts, hence didn't leave them. You don't hear of characters being able to leave dragons and the like?

Milgram
09-07-2009, 11:03
the same applies to the cauldron I believe, though I'm not sure.

chariots, screaming bells and the like are not 'leavable' though.

Gazak Blacktoof
09-07-2009, 11:09
The Tomb King player can even do it entirely freely in his last turn, as it will never get to the "Tomb King player's next turn", so you won't even get the Casket's Points that way.

Wow that's a sneaky little trick- I'm surprised I've never seen anybody mention it before.

kahunadave
09-07-2009, 14:21
I'm glad I'm not the only one. Thanks folks for clearing that up.

kyinpie
09-07-2009, 16:09
im sure that on the faq, it says you cant leave! might be wrong tho!

Arnizipal
10-07-2009, 11:36
The Casket counts as a warmachine. Characters are free to leave and join them as normal.

Avian
10-07-2009, 17:20
im sure that on the faq, it says you cant leave! might be wrong tho!

So you are sure, but you think you might be wrong?


Had you actually read the FAQ, you would have seen that the very first question explicitly says you can leave it.

EvC
10-07-2009, 17:40
I encounter far too many people for whom "sure" actually means "I think". And they usually have some unfair advantage to be gained from it. Not in this case though, but annoying when people don't know what "sure" means!!

grhino
11-07-2009, 17:02
Leaving the Casket is possible, but who'd even consider putting his Hierophant behind it? That's just a plain st*pid thing to do, unless he's your only priest! He's much too vulnerable there...

kyinpie
11-07-2009, 18:06
So you are sure, but you think you might be wrong?


Had you actually read the FAQ, you would have seen that the very first question explicitly says you can leave it.

well i have gone and reread the faq! as i said above, im sure you cant, which in this case i was correct! the very first question is asking weather another liche can join the CoS weather the origanal liche priest was thier or not and the answer to that was yes it can, if the origanal liche dies and thiers another thier then the CoS does not collapse.
it stats in the TK book that the CoS cannot move, as the CoS is the liche's upgrade/equipment (thats treated like a warmachine) then i see it as the origanal lich and the guards as well as the casket cannot move. therefore the origanal priest cannot move from the casket.

so aside from the cocky remark above, what you said was incorrect, i sudgest you reread it!


I encounter far too many people for whom "sure" actually means "I think". And they usually have some unfair advantage to be gained from it. Not in this case though, but annoying when people don't know what "sure" means!!

i know what 'sure' means and i used it in the correct manner! any half decent player does not need to bend the rules to gain an unfair advantage!

whereas i now KNOW that the origanal liche priest that comes with the casket cannot move from the casket for the entire game, however if a secound liche joins the casket, and then the origanal dies, the secound liche could freely move away from the casket and in the follow turn the CoS and the two gaurds will collapse as their is no liche supporting it!

nosferatu1001
11-07-2009, 19:35
EvC is correct on this: the Casket is treated as a warmachine, and therefore characters can leave it - it's just not a good idea to do so as it makes it crumble. Just accept! that! you're! wrong! "The way you see it" isn't, in fact, the actual rules. ! Nothing in the FAQ actually says what you think it says....

As another polite note: "!" should be used when you have an exciting sentence, it does not replace the full stop. Your posts are a lot easier to read if you use them sparingly.

Necromancy Black
12-07-2009, 08:02
it stats in the TK book that the CoS cannot move, as the CoS is the liche's upgrade/equipment (thats treated like a warmachine) then i see it as the origanal lich and the guards as well as the casket cannot move. therefore the origanal priest cannot move from the casket.

whereas i now KNOW that the origanal liche priest that comes with the casket cannot move from the casket for the entire game, however if a secound liche joins the casket, and then the origanal dies, the secound liche could freely move away from the casket and in the follow turn the CoS and the two gaurds will collapse as their is no liche supporting it!

This is wrong. The original priest can leave at any time as per the warmachine rules.

kyinpie
12-07-2009, 16:22
wheres the rules to say he can then?

it just seems to me you guys are just picking at the rules for the sake of it! its cheesy as hell to do so! theres no where in the rules or faq's to say he can! nowhere!!! the only rules that stats anything about moving is in the book and it says you cant! so would you people consider moving the casket gaurd off too? if not why not? it seems to fit with what your saying about the liche? also i havnt got the book to hand, but whats the rules for dwarf engineers? can they leave? not the master engineer, the engineer. as the warmachine isnt a master engineers equipment, but the engineer is part of the upgrades, as is the casket for the priest!

also i will not accept im wrong as in this case im not, intill you can have solid proff of what your saying! it seems to me that what im saying IS my interpretation of the rules, but isnt that what your doing? so i cant see why your 'claiming' that your 100% correct, your statments are an interpretation too!

i know my interpretation is a sound version thats not trying to pick at the rules to gain some additional benifit! which in my opinion is what your trying to do!

ps i dont come on here for grammer lessons! surly that a '!' will not make it difficult to read!

Sarah S
12-07-2009, 16:25
Your posting style is somewhat contemptible.

We are trying to have a discussion here.

We don't need to confabulate a rule that says he can, because that is the default position for the behaviour of characters. If you want to support your position, it is you who must come up with a rule stating that he can not leav the Casket.

Since there is no rule, you are wrong.

nosferatu1001
12-07-2009, 16:42
Apparently you do use "!" as a full stop. Wow.

Warmachine crew may not leave the machine - characters can. BY DEFAULT characters can join and leave units - here teh exception is that the war machine can never move, but it does not restrict the character.

So you now need to prove that the Casket rules restrict the Priests movement rules. You won;t be able to, and this is why you're wrong.

kyinpie
12-07-2009, 16:47
haha! i disagree with you all! but im just glad i'll never have to play the game against the likes of you, bending the rules to gain benifits!

in the likes of mounts, weapons, etc. you can never get off your mount, drop your weapon, etc so why can you 'drop' the casket? its the liches equipment, that follows some of the warmachine rules! i dont need to find the rule that he can, it seems crystal clear to me, and i have used TK for years, and still do!

well sarah s, as im not part of the discusion, this will be my last post on this thread, but you would have to find the rule to say he could, to change my mind! and any half decent player for that matter!

nosferatu, fun arguing with you about this:-

'the casket gaurd and liche priest/liche high priest associated with the casket act much like a war machines crew for the casket of souls' p.33

the liche/high liche are war machine crew! and crew cannot leave the war machine! nothing to say that the liche/hich is to act as a charecter joining the unit! it stats that he IS the crew! the casket cant move so neither can the crew!

signing out :P

Sarah S
12-07-2009, 16:59
well sarah s, as im not part of the discusion, this will be my last post on this thread, but you would have to find the rule to say he could, to change my mind! and any half decent player for that matter!

No. I don't. All the rational players already know the score. Glad you're done here.

Draconian77
12-07-2009, 17:13
haha! i disagree with you all! but im just glad i'll never have to play the game against the likes of you, bending the rules to gain benifits!



So you're going to ignore the advice of some of the most valued posters on this site and instead flee with your tail between your legs, despite you not having a leg to stand on. Lovely.

For the record, yes, Priests can leave the Casket. Although at this point it doesn't need to be said.

nosferatu1001
12-07-2009, 18:48
Good, they've gone, my head was aching from all those exclamation marks! ! !

They are treated as crew, character crew can leave a war machine. It's really simple, but obviously too simple for some....

Alcibiades
13-07-2009, 11:58
the liche/high liche are war machine crew! and crew cannot leave the war machine! nothing to say that the liche/hich is to act as a charecter joining the unit! it stats that he IS the crew! the casket cant move so neither can the crew!
Page 86 of the BRB, lower right hand corner, under "Abandoned War Machines"

The crew may deliberately abandon the war machine...

EvC
13-07-2009, 12:20
And note that before yoy start droning on about Dwarfs, they DO have a special rule which means they can't leave their warmachines. And Tomb Kings don't. Easy peasy, lemon-squeezy.

kahunadave
13-07-2009, 12:30
Folks can we please reign it in a bit please, i started this post to gain a bit knowledge on a situation i came across. For future posts please try and remain polite to each other, and its ok to have different opinions, but please reason your arguements.
Also spelling and grammer doesn't matter so please dont mention it to only embarrass other posters, especailly as these forums consist of members of many different ages.
On another note thanks for the above postings, its put my mind at rest, and ill let other Tomb King players I come against know they have that option too.

eyeolas
15-07-2009, 22:55
well, a charcter that joins a standard war machine acts as part of its crew, and since this is exactly the same as the casket's wording of the liche priest's status, I don't see why he has any difference from normal rules because the war machine us technically under his point's value rather than separate (and thats all, the casket even uses it's own rare slot like many other war machines)

However, if you assume he can join a unit, then whats to stop the situation where the liche priest joins a unit of archers 1" away from the casket on turn 1. There is a liche priest within 1" so it won't crumble, the priest is protected in a large unit of ablative wonds, and best of all the casket keeps on doing its thing without being a massive liability. This situation would also raise massive issues as to what happens when a unit charges the casket without priest and kills the guard. Can they overrun? Does the casket get mown down or remain where it is? Is the unit locked in combat with the indestructable casket?

Personally for the sake of potential exploitation and keeping the rules as simple as possible I'd keep my priest where he is

Necromancy Black
16-07-2009, 06:54
Wait, doesn't is say the Lich Priest has to be part of the unit? Not just within 1" of the casket to stop it crumbling.

Gazak Blacktoof
16-07-2009, 10:13
He has to be part of the crew, a distance isn't mentioned, though he will obviously have to be close to be part of the crew.

EvC
16-07-2009, 11:14
And he can't be in two units at once, obviously.

eyeolas
16-07-2009, 19:39
Ah, ok then, ignore my example of exploitation

Sarah S
16-07-2009, 22:46
Also spelling and grammer doesn't matter so please dont mention it to only embarrass other posters, especailly as these forums consist of members of many different ages.

You are on the wrong forum if you think that is true.