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Rhamiel
09-07-2009, 19:49
Hi does anyone have any tips for someone who will be soon (once has some money) be collecting his first Fantasy army?

for your information i will be collecting Warriors or Chaos with a strong Khorne theme, by strong i mean most of the army
but with a few of the other god units as bodyguard to some sorcerors

i was thinking of eventually taking Archaon but i am now thinking that he isn't suited to this kind of army, any advice?

i want to play an enjoyable army rather than a power gaming army
as i prefer the backround side of armies to the winning side.

another thing is i have been collecting a Salamanders army for the past couple of years (which is almost at 4500 points) so i might say some stupid things.

but i have been drawn to the power of chaos for a while now
been getting bored with everyone saying oh SM are boring CSm are more exciting and different
well i felt this was true, but didn't want to get another PA army (which was why i also chucked out an idea of Luna Wolves) and i wanted to try other gaming styles becuase 40K was getting a bit repeadtive
and also i have noticed that a lot more players play Fantasy than 40K (well the adults do anyway and i am bored of playing annoying younder kids who field illegal armies, and also armies with loads of big tanks and special characters)

so yeh sorry about the rant but, yeh any tips for a Fantasy newbie i am willing to listen
i will be planning on buying the Battalion first and a Hero (but i don't know which Hero)

after that i will see how many points it is and try and get it as close to the nearest 500 points as i can (if that means buying a few more men or units then fine). and then from there i will collect the army in 500 point sections. is that sensible or what

ok i will now stop and let you guys here do your magic (of posting good advice ;))

Rhamiel

PeG
09-07-2009, 20:32
Start small, if you get the battalion and plan on playing khorne I would recomend a hero on a jugger. The battalion + hero should take you to 500-750 points. Play a few games and add on models that you like. At 1k you probably want to add a caster for some magic defence.

ICLRK625
09-07-2009, 20:49
Start small, if you get the battalion and plan on playing khorne I would recomend a hero on a jugger. The battalion + hero should take you to 500-750 points. Play a few games and add on models that you like. At 1k you probably want to add a caster for some magic defence.

It'll do him more then that with a Juggernaut, much closer (perhaps exceeding) 1,000 points, which is an excellent size to start at.

The Batallion is a fantastic way to start Chaos, as it includes stuff you'll actually use consistently (perhaps not the Warhounds at first, but you'll realize why they're important once you get into the game mroe). After the Batallion, since you're going Khorne themed, you can either tool up a bunch of other heroes (which is costly, and you'd probably be better of with more troops), or get (wait for it) another Batallion. Knights and Warriors are going to the bulk of your army, and the Batallion is a great and cost effective way to get them, along with some other stuff.

If you're going to do entirely Khorne (with some sorcerors apparentley) it'd be wise to find a group that isn't full of power gamers, as you'll have close to no defense against magic. However, if you take a Khorne Lord (in 2000 points and up) and 2 scroll caddy sorcerors (they just carry dispel scrolls, so you can dispel some of your opponents magic), you should be able to field a strong army that will be fun to play with and against.

Overall, you've got a theme, and once you get the codex, you'll be able to outfit it more then with just the frame of Warriors of Chaos (Knights and Warriors that is) and create an army that fits your playstyle or interpretation of the fluff.

Tokamak
09-07-2009, 22:54
Yes, there's nothing wrong with a pure khorne force, I would love to play against that. Just don't pollute it with non-khorne stuff.

selone
09-07-2009, 23:29
I'd defintly use war hounds in your first game if you have frenzied troops :)

GenerationTerrorist
09-07-2009, 23:38
I'm intrigued by a Khornate army for WoC. I guess how well it works (in terms of flexibility) would depend on whether you marked every single unit Khorne.

As mentioned above. The WoC Battalion is probably the best Battalion set there is (IMHO) because you will use every single one of the units in your eventual army. The Lord/Hero on the Jugger is also a great choice as your leader - stick him in with the Knights for maximum killing power!

Don't sniff at the Warhounds - They are vital for screening and shielding your Knights and other valuable units to either take arrows or prevent the Khorne Frenzy-Bait that is well known.

If you do settle on the Battalion+Jugger, then also get yourself a unit or two of Marauder Horsemen for flank attacks and general fast cav nuisance - they are my favourite unit in the whole army.

As for magic, just take a lvl1 with a pair of Dispel Scrolls and hide him in your Warriors unit. At the lower point level, that should suffice in terms of magic protection....Yes, even though it is Khorne, you will need a sorcerer in your army!

After this 1000-ish points, there are so many different ways you can go but I'll leave that up to your choice once you have read the book and decided whether you like monsters, knights, massed hordes of flail waving marauders or a full-plate elite army of frenxied death.

Welcome to the dark side :-)

Cartoon
10-07-2009, 00:51
Don't forget about chariots either. They don't get mentioned a bunch around here but they sure are a lot of fun to smash into enemy battle lines. They may not be the most optimal choice, but a Khorne chariot is a terrifying thing to behold.

Also recommending hounds like everyone else, especially with Khorne. Doggies are a chaos man's best friend after all.

DigbyWeapon
10-07-2009, 02:18
I'd advice against getting a battalion.
You might get it, and think that fantasy sucks, or that you really don't want to play chaos.
I'd start with a regiment of Marauders and a hero/special character.
Just my thoughts though.

Digby

Cartoon
10-07-2009, 02:28
Or you could try and proxy some stuff to see if you like the way it plays. If you know anyone with any fantasy miniatures just use them as a "counts as" WOC army until you decide on whether or not their right for you.

Roark
10-07-2009, 07:06
My general tips:

- Read the rule book all the way through twice. Then read it again.

- Make sure you understand all of the game processes/mechanics that are summarised at the back of the rule book (combat resolution modifiers etc).

- Before you even start buying units for your army, get an understanding of how that army plays out on the battlefield. You don't want to collect 2000 points of WoC only to discover that they have very little shooting, when that was what you were after in the first place.

- When constructing an army, have a role in mind for each of your units. Don't just squeeze them in because they fit points-wise.

- Seek to understand the community's general perceptions on army composition and balance, and the difference between tough and abusive lists. By no means am I suggesting that you believe everything you read, but it helps to trawl through a multitude of opinions.

- Paint your army! (well, eventually anyway...) Seriously, this is one of the most rewarding aspects of the hobby for me personally. Even if you're not an awesome painter, you will take a lot more pride in a fielded force to which you have applied your own touch.

- Last tip: Mark of Slaanesh Giant!!! ;-)

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy WoC as much as I have.

Rhamiel
10-07-2009, 09:13
right i am now just going to give replys to thing you have said:
yep i will eventually get Lord on Jugger but is he sensible at this few points? maybe an Exhalted Khorne Hero (maybe on foot or mounted but i love the foot Khorne Hero)

ok i agree that sorcerors arn't part of a khorne force but i really like the chaos magic, but i also love the pure madness and carnage a khorne army can do in combat. so i was thinking (like it says in the WD) that i could take 1 unit of Slaanesh, Nurgle and T'Zeentch and put a sorceror or sorceror lord in each unit, for example take a chosen unit with banner of wrath and book of secrets and mark of tzeentch, and then that unit can blast the enemy along with their sorceror. I think that is a nice unit

i do plan to get maruder Horsemen but right now i think i will go with Battallion and Hero, see how it works and then buy something i feel is needed to make it a vialbe army, at that point (or 1500 points) i will start doing 500 point sections, or is that a bit stuppid and should i get what i feel is needed at the point.

i'm not a big fan of chariots as they are special and i would rather take chaos knights instead of chariots, but i might get 1 at one point, instead i would proabably (i know they are rare) get Warshrines, at least 2 to advacne behind the army and give them juicy bonuses)

i don't like proxying stuff, i feel it cheats the game, and besides i am happy with how all of the chaos stuff works, i just haven't seen it been used in my store. But hey i am willing to go for things and if WoC don't turn out like i hoped then i will say fine, stop them (possibly sell them) and start another 40K army (most likly)

now Roark this load of points is the answers to all of your points:
- i have the rulebook and i have read it about 6 times (so done)
- i don't have the current rulebook, i have like the 5th one or sometimes around then which my teacher gave to me, will that do for now? or will i have to buy the current rulebook?
- i know how WoC (espically a Khorne one) army plays, i know they have little shooting and they are normally outnumbered. but they have nails units with 2 attacks and good armour, and i love the freioucious side of war gaming (combat)
- ok good point about squezzing stuff in, any spare points i think i should go for chaos warhounds (as they are really useful)
- i don't get what you mean about coomunits general perceptions? could you explain that a bit please
- PAINT!!!!! what never i cna't belive i have to paint!!!!!! just joking yeh i enjoy poating with other people chatting while giving my minatures a good lick of paint, mind you it is a bad lick of paint, but on the table top my Sallies look ok
- why would i take a mark of Slaanesh Giant, i am Khorne i hate Slaanesh, but before i wirte it of copletly why should i take a Slaanesh Giant?

ok thanks a lot keep the tips coming

Rhamiel

Duke Georgal
10-07-2009, 09:43
My 2 cents:

DO NOT play khorne as your first army! Vanilla warriors of chaos will suit you just fine.

Dealing with all those frenzied units and how they let your opponent control the game might be enough to make you lose interest very quickly.

Rhamiel
10-07-2009, 09:58
no i agree that the frenzy might be a challenge (it means you have to charge towards the colest enemy right?), but i like a challenge and i love khorne
and i really hate vanilla lists
i like armies with a theme behind them

Rhamiel

Rhamiel
10-07-2009, 16:23
umm. sorry to post twice (this isn't meant to be bumping)
but i have found my WoC rulebook and spent about 5 minutes making a list based on the Battalion and an Exhalted Hero
and i have made a 1002 point list (does the 2 points really matter?)
unfortunatly i didn't have the points to give the Exhalted Hero a mount, but everything in my army has the Mark of Khorne (except the Warhounds):
Exhalted Hero: with Mark of Khorne, Axe of Khorne, Favour of the Gods and Fury of the Blood God
12 Chaos Warriors: with Mark of Khorne, Additional Hand Weapons and Full Command
20 Chaos Marauders: with Mark of Khorne, Flails, Light Armour and Full Command
10 Chaos Warhounds: with Scaly Skin (just to annoy oppent when trying to kill them)
5 Chaos Knights: with Mark of Khorne, Full Command and the Banner of Wrath

so what do you think that is just the Battalion and single hero. I hope it is a viable army

ok thanks

Rhamiel

ps any adivce on what to buy after will be appreicated

Cartoon
10-07-2009, 18:43
Khorne is a tough mark to use on foot troops. Since most chaos human infantry is only movement 4 your battle line can disintegrate right in front of you if someone knows how to bait your troops. Even with warhounds to screen this can get tricky. Where Khorne really shines is on knights, chariots, and ogres. I know you want to keep it all Khorne, just be ready for a challenge in keeping your force together.

As far as being 2 points over, some people will mind and others won't. It will depend on who's in your group.

Also, if your worried about chariots taking up special slots, if you give a character a chariot it does not use up a special choice. You may want to keep this in mind if you decide to expand your force to a higher point value.

phoenixlaw
10-07-2009, 19:16
Khorne Marauder Horsemen with Flails are insanely good.

Khorne Knights are also good.

I'd look at a wizard or 2 (although it goes against your theme)
Otherwise you wont be able to keep up in the magic phase. (especially if you're new)

Khorne Lord on Dragon can be fun too. (although difficult to manage)

phoenixlaw
10-07-2009, 19:17
and put your exalted hero on a juggernought

The Slaanesh Giant is because it makes him always strike 1st

With a Giant, the only real 2 options are Slaanesh or Nurgle.

You need the 7th edition book, 5th will not do.

Theres nothing really abusive in your list at all.
Warriors of Chaos dont have many abusive options (except Gateway for the win lists)

PeG
10-07-2009, 21:27
Put the hero on a jugger for a really good AS and some extra attacks this will allow him to fight against almost anything you can meet at 1k.

Depending on your playing environment I would suggest some magic defence. Taking a lvl 1 scroll caddy to protect your khorne units still works with your fluff. Your fast units will be in combat from your second turn so one scroll caddy should be able to protect you until you get there. Without magic defence you might find that you are in deep trouble against many armies. In my latest game against skaven they had three casters at 1k+bound spells. That is 7D6 S5 hits in turn 1 unless you have some magic defence.

Duke Georgal
10-07-2009, 23:28
Khorne Marauder Horsemen with Flails are insanely good.

Absolutely! One of my favorite units.

Brother J
11-07-2009, 07:43
Woo-Hoo! More WoC players!

I absolutely love the idea of someone running an all Khornate list, and if it wasn't for the fact that I have been developing a liking to magic and the Mark of Nurgle I'd be running one. (In fact, I probably will soon anyways!)

Tips for starting Fantasy, and more directly, starting Khornate Warriors of Chaos.

Get use to the idea of being outnumbered...by a lot...by most armies..You're going to be outnumbered by almost everything aside from Ogre Kingdoms, and even then they've got the wounds to make up for it.

Screen your Khornate units with Warhounds. They're extremely cheap units, and if someone is shooting them down, that means they're not shooting something more important down!

If you're going to have a unit with characters in it, always take full command. Having a Champion helps out in the challenge department, keeping your casters from getting stomped into the ground. While our casters are equal to, or better than, most other armies casters in close combat...against a CC character, you'll win only by the off chance of them bunking their rolls. (My last two battles had my casters pwning two Dark Elf assassins, one close combat oriented, one "Muhahahaha Manbane Rending Star to the Fffffaaaaccceee..)

Don't get discouraged if you are being out run by your opponent's army. Your movement is 4, which is average. Elves, apparently have longer legs then 7-8 foot Norsemen. (Or they're sprinting across the field, not entirely sure yet.)

Final pieces of advice would have to be, be prepared to lose a lot at first and to constantly be looking through your rule book. If I were you, I'd find two opponents to face, someone else who is new to Fantasy (A buddy coming over to the good side of GW with you.) and someone who's been playing for a while. Having one of each really allows for you to get the rules a bit quicker. The more experienced player being able to tell you what you're doing wrong, and the newer player being able to learn right along side you, and therefore being able to remind you of something that is still fresh in their mind that you could have done wrong. (That and two different opponents make you learn your army faster then blasting away at Dark Elves for months at a time.)

Rhamiel
12-07-2009, 08:51
ok i know that it would make sense to have the khorne hero on the juggernaught
but i have no idea where i would lose the points to find the juggernaught
so if you have any adivce i will listen
unless of course i go up to 1500 points at the begginning, and take 1 or 2 sorcerors with bodyguard and then stick the guy of jugger?
what do you think?

also to Brother J's comment about having 2 mates (a veteran and a newbie)
i actually do, thats quite lucky. yeh one i know gave me a tester game, which i quite enjoyed, but the friend i thought i had for being a newbie, has decided to not collect a proper army and just collect all the models he likes from lots of different armies. So i mayb have to find another newbie.

but the last thing i want to make a point about is about the rulebook that i have. I don't know which edition it is but what i do know is that it was made in 2002 does that mean it is good enough to learn the majority of rules for fantasy? i know it means i wont know eveything, but might it help me undertand the rough playing of the game?

ok thats all i have for now, i will work on a 1500 point list based getting some magic defence and a jugger in, and from there i could do a re-made 1000 point list
does that make sense?

Rhamiel

Rhamiel
12-07-2009, 10:05
quick post that is the army at 1500 points:
Exhalted Hero: with Mark of Khorne, Axe of Khorne, Fury of the Blood God and Juggernaught of Khorne
Sorcerer: with Mark of Tzeentch, Lvl 2, Power Familiar and Dispel Scroll
Sorcerer: with Mark of Nurgle, Lvl 2, Power Familiar and Dispel Scroll
12 Chaos Warriors: with Mark of Khorne, Additional Hand Weapons and Full Command
20 Chaos Maruders: with Mark of Khorne, Flails, Light Armour and Full Command
10 Chaos Warhounds: with Scaly Skin (of course i probably spilt them into 2 units of 5)
8 Chaos Knights: with Mark of Khorne, Full Command and Banner of Rage
Chaos Spawn: with Mark of Khorne

do you think thats a good army
i mean it does have 2 Sorcerers which can protect and dish out pain at the same time
also the knights would equal 2 ranks of 5 (becuase of the size of the base of the hero (or doesn't it work like that?) and can dish out a load of attacks and with Strength 5 they can cause a lot of wounds
the Spawn can just scare opponents (as i have noticed that people are really scared of them) and also i cant hold and dish out in combat
the maruders and warriors will just go forward and try and kill some of the enemy.
the only wory i have is that the sorcerers are a bit unprotected

enjoy

Rhamiel

kramplarv
12-07-2009, 11:46
in general, if you find yourself short of some points, do not hesitate to make your 20unit of marauders a 18 unit or 17. :) or such, eg. Do not fear to decrease the number of models in a unit. :)

edit: You may not have the same magic item twice or more in an army, with a few exceptions as Dispel scroll. Itmes which you may have more than one have it in their descriptions. :)

the scaly skin on yer dogs are cool, but very useful. Almost all shooting/close combat in the game have S4+ or are armor piercing. mening that their 6+ save will go away, and so it's just a waste of points in many cases. :)

your knights will be 10 yes, beause of the juggersize. That unit is one tough mother. I approve and really like it, but other posters will surely claim that you should have a unit of 6 or two units of 5-6 :)

Also, the rulebook from 2002 are the 6th ed rulebook. The absolute majority of the rules can be learned from that edition. With a few exceptions. Notably; Frenzycharges, how psychology works, how to flee in subsequent turns, and also "enemy in the way" are a new rule in 7th which is not in 6th, it is replacing the "re-directing a charge" rule.

ICLRK625
12-07-2009, 11:50
quick post that is the army at 1500 points:
Exhalted Hero: with Mark of Khorne, Axe of Khorne, Fury of the Blood God and Juggernaught of Khorne
Sorcerer: with Mark of Tzeentch, Lvl 2, Power Familiar and Dispel Scroll
Sorcerer: with Mark of Nurgle, Lvl 2, Power Familiar and Dispel Scroll
12 Chaos Warriors: with Mark of Khorne, Additional Hand Weapons and Full Command
20 Chaos Maruders: with Mark of Khorne, Flails, Light Armour and Full Command
10 Chaos Warhounds: with Scaly Skin (of course i probably spilt them into 2 units of 5)
8 Chaos Knights: with Mark of Khorne, Full Command and Banner of Rage
Chaos Spawn: with Mark of Khorne

do you think thats a good army
i mean it does have 2 Sorcerers which can protect and dish out pain at the same time
also the knights would equal 2 ranks of 5 (becuase of the size of the base of the hero (or doesn't it work like that?) and can dish out a load of attacks and with Strength 5 they can cause a lot of wounds
the Spawn can just scare opponents (as i have noticed that people are really scared of them) and also i cant hold and dish out in combat
the maruders and warriors will just go forward and try and kill some of the enemy.
the only wory i have is that the sorcerers are a bit unprotected

enjoy

Rhamiel

Your Exalted Hero is illegal, in order to take Fury of the Blood God, you can't take any magic items.

Your Sorceror's are illegal as well, you can only have 1 of the same magic item, excluding Dispel Scrolls and Power Stones.

There's really no reason to ever take Chaos Knights in groups bigger then 6 (maximum amount you can fit in base contact against a standard Rank and File Unit of 20mm), and no, they would not count as having a rank (5 models wide, not 100mm), but if you include the Juggernaut in them, it would be count as 5 models wide (in both ranks). Knights should never really have a rank bonus, unless they're Brettonians Lance Formations. Also, drop command save the Standard Bearer, the champion is too expensive for what he does (not much, considering you'll be eager to accept challenges with your Hero anyways)

NEVER take Warhounds in units bigger then 6, and give them nothing in the way of upgrades. Warhounds aren't going to see combat in 75% of games (they'll be shot to death or fail a panic test), and when they do, they don't do well in it. The purpose of Warhounds is to screen your army (something infinitely important in WoC), so instead take 2 units of 5 or 6, with no upgrades.

Really, there's no reason to Mark the Spawn of Chaos, you'd be lucky for it to even get into combat, and +1 Strength isn't going to be the difference between winning or losing. It would, however, be the difference between another 4 Warhounds or more Marauders.

As for your Marauders, you're going to have to be careful, as with Frenzy, it's likely they're going to be baited a lot. I would give them Hand Weapons and Shields to increase their survivability, but Flails will work if you can screen them well enough to get them into combat.

Overall it's a good beginners list, but you'll find as you learn the game, you'll be making small changes that will lead to massive improvements in your game plan.

phoenixlaw
12-07-2009, 13:26
What I'd Change

Exhalted Hero: with Mark of Khorne, Axe of Khorne, Fury of the Blood God and Juggernaught of Khorne

I'd replace the Fury of the blood god with Soporific Musk (Fury of the blood god is illegal with the axe) It makes the Khorne knights harder to bait.

Sorcerer: with Mark of Tzeentch, Lvl 2, Power Familiar and Dispel Scroll

Good

Sorcerer: with Mark of Nurgle, Lvl 2, Power Familiar and Dispel Scroll

Can't have 2 power familiars so I'd have 2 x Scroll

12 Chaos Warriors: with Mark of Khorne, Additional Hand Weapons and Full Command

You're going to have problems getting these into combat, but you have the models already right ?

20 Chaos Maruders: with Mark of Khorne, Flails, Light Armour and Full Command

I'd have gone handweapon and shield personally, although they're not bad I'd possibly unmark them (seems ok still in a Khorne themed force)But we'll leave them as is for now
10 Chaos Warhounds: with Scaly Skin (of course i probably spilt them into 2 units of 5)

Split them up and lose the Scaly skin

8 Chaos Knights: with Mark of Khorne, Full Command and Banner of Rage

I'd go for a smaller unit personally, 6 in this case

Chaos Spawn: with Mark of Khorne

Lose the Mark of Khorne he's not there to kill things, just to tie them up


I've saved you 110 pts enough for a unit of Marauder Horsemen with flails and the Mark of Khorne. at 105pts.

Rhamiel
12-07-2009, 16:44
ok thanks for the tips i am editing the list now
i will post it up soon

Rhamiel

Rhamiel
12-07-2009, 17:02
ok what i have done is redo my 1000 points and this is how it looks
unfortunatly when i first did this 1000 point list i mucked up with the calculations so i have had to drop somethings
i am going to work my 1500 point from that (getting hopefully 2 sorcerers in there)
anyway with out further ado he it is:
Exhalted Hero: Mark of Khorne, Axe of Khorne, Soproific Musk and Juggernaught of Khorne
12 Warriors of Chaos: Mark of Khorne, Additional Hand Weapons, Full Command
20 Marauders of Chaos: Mark of Khorne, Flails, Light Armour, Full Command (i am unsure about the Light Armour, considering what you said about the Warhounds)
5 Chaos Warhounds
5 Chaos Warhounds
5 Chaos Knights: Mark of Khorne, Full Command

now that is 2 points over but i don't feel that makes much difference

i am working on the 1500 point list but still making disicions

Rhamiel

edit: here is the extra 500 points into army
Sorcerer: Mark of Tzeentch, Lvl 2, Power Familiar, Dispel Scroll
Sorcerer: Mark of Nurgle, Lvl 2, Dispel Scroll, Power Stone
5 Marauder Horsemen: Mark of Nurgle, Throwing Axes (what is the difference between axes and spears) and Light Armour, Standard Bearer

does that work?

Rhamiel
13-07-2009, 11:25
just to tell you i am working my way through reading the Warhammer rulebook
but my god there are a lot of rules
espcially movement and close combat

Rhamiel

Rhamiel
13-07-2009, 16:35
again sorry to post again but i am lost
in the rulebook it says that you gain +1 armour save in close combat from a shield
and yet i was reading the WoC WD and it said in there that chaos warriors can have a 3+ armour save and a 2+ armour save in close combat if they take a shield
but then i checked in the WoC rulebook, and it said chaos armour is a 4+ armour save
so does this mean that they have got it wrong; or does it change in the current rulebook (eg. sheilds give you +1 and then +2 in close combat)
any answer to that?

Rhamiel

Charistoph
14-07-2009, 05:12
again sorry to post again but i am lost
in the rulebook it says that you gain +1 armour save in close combat from a shield
and yet i was reading the WoC WD and it said in there that chaos warriors can have a 3+ armour save and a 2+ armour save in close combat if they take a shield
but then i checked in the WoC rulebook, and it said chaos armour is a 4+ armour save
so does this mean that they have got it wrong; or does it change in the current rulebook (eg. sheilds give you +1 and then +2 in close combat)
any answer to that?

Rhamiel

Chaos Warriors start with their armor at 4+, meaning they pass on a save roll of 4 or more. If they add a shield, they improve their roll by +1, or they pass on 3. If they are using a hand weapon and shield, they gain a Parry bonus in close combat, reducing their necessary roll to pass their armor save to just 2 or more. Just be warned, there are characters that can reduce that even more in this army and in the Dwarfs army with the right items.

grhino
14-07-2009, 07:44
I just had a game with a Khorne Lord (flail, jugger + regeration crown), a Tzeench lvl2 hero with power fam + dispell and a chaos lvl2 sorceror with scroll and collar of khorne: worked just fine until I made a huge mistake charging my knights (and lord) into some well placed skinks that led to opening up my flank to a charge with cold one riding saurus where the lord was not. I should have put him in the other side of the unit, exposing him. He's rock hard! They went through the unit (although it got away) and into my 13 chosen (and chaos sorceror) that had a 1+ armour save and 4 attacks each (except sorceror). They managed to kill a rediculous amount of five chosen (without champion or hero in the saurus unit) and nearly caught them when they ran away. In his turn he charged them again and they fled off the battlefield. Luckily my Lord got to take revenge against those cold one riders in the final turn, when stupidity led to a forced charge on him!

I like Khorne, but you need to make sure not to get exposed. Get some (slaanesh or undivided) marauder horsemen or hounds to shield your main units and kill those pesky redirecting units. You can take on pretty much everything in the front (-except my chosen, they can't).

Rhamiel
14-07-2009, 08:38
ok thanks for the info on the armour save it just wasn't adding up with the White Dwarf and the Rulebook.
i have another query:
and that is what Magic Resistance does, becuase it says in the rulebook that it increases that amount of Dispel Dice allowed to be used when the model is targetted with a spell.
but in the magic chapter it says that any number of dispel dice can be used
so to me it doesn't work so a bit of help please

also i cna't wait to start espically by the sound of what you said Grhino, can't wait for the destuctive power of the force. I am a bit worried about the baiting thing. When they say baited do you mean they stick a crap unit in front of them, and then they have to charge into the crap unit. And then the enemy charge with a good unit in the flank of my unit, and the win the combat.
is that how baiting works?

but also how do i use the Warhounds to prevent that? as i don't understnad how it works. so a bit of help about how that would work thanks.

Rhamiel

grhino
14-07-2009, 09:01
Magic Resistance effectively gives you an extra dice (MR 1), or several (MR 2/3) on top of the number of dice you already have in your pool. This makes it easier to dispel a spell targeting the unit, because you'll have more dice to dispell other spells. Also, remember the MR is transferred from a character to the unit he is in! Collar of Khorne for example is a great item for giving magical protection to a unit!

Because Khornate units are Frenzied, they get an extra attack (also mounts, don't forget) unless defeated in combat, but they need to test for the ability to charge in the compulsory movement part of the movement phase (before remaining moves) and charge if they can. This means the enemy can lure them, since your unit always directs itself to the middle of the enemy unit when going after an enemy fleeing from a charge. Skirmishers are a b*tch for this, since they can put one model to block your movement while having the rest of the unit in your flank, causing you to go after them in a very nasty direction when they flee. Usually, they dont care whether you catch them or not, since there will be a heavy cav or ranked up unit in your flank in the enemy's turn. Having a Khorne lord there on the exposed flank really helps out against this, since his CR will at least tie the combat in most cases.

Using other units means that they can block your ability to charge- preventing them from being lured. To overcome this bock, make sure you can see the enemy you want to charge and charge both units (charge blocker and khornate unit) against different targets in your turn. Just make sure your knights or unit can pass by the blocking unit after their charge move. Marauder horsemen in their most basic configuration are usually up to the task or just taking out these small blocking units, and you can afford to lose them in the process.

I'd just give a flail to my exalted hero. There's no need for a magic weapon of 45 points that adds a little killing power when you can have 4 (5 with frenzy) S7 attacks on the first turn of combat (not to mention three attacks at WS5 and S5 from the mount). This will kill other hero's anyway! Give him the Favour of the Gods and some magical defence instead - Collar of Khorne is great combo with Fav. ot Gods on an exalted hero.

Rhamiel
14-07-2009, 09:22
ok thanks for the info about baiting and avoiding it
and you do have a point about the Axe of Khorne and the Flail discussion
but i just don't like the image of a lord with a flail and besides it means i have to convert stuff which i always try an not do (and if i do keep to a minimum), and i am happy with the Axe of Khorne.
but thats something i wanted to raise with you guys:
when i get round to getting a chaos lord (in addition to the Exhalted hero) what should i equip him with? the choices are (and no changing this is what i want sorry to sound demanding):
Chaos Runesword (axe) and Chaos Runeshield. With this he gets upgraded stats making him meaner in combat and also all magical weapon (mainly used in a challenge) become useless including runic weapons, which could be useful against my mate who is collecting dwarfs
or
Chaos Deamonsword (axe) and Collar of Khorne: can dish out a serve amount of attacks at (if i am lucky) high strength, but risks killing himself. and the collar of khorne is useful for the unit.

the only problem i can see with both weapon choices is that only 1 of them gives him a ward save and even then it is a 6+ which doesn't help much.

so any replys to that are welcome

Rhamiel

Rhamiel
16-07-2009, 10:44
ok i was reading the Chaos deamons White Dwarf
and specificaly the Vampire Count army list article
and i mentioned in there that you should write a short explanation on how the army came to be, to hand to oppenents so they no the history behind your army
i think thats quite a cool idea, do you think that i should do this?

i normally write a short story fro my armies, but this is more a history rather than a story
i definatly going to do this with my Salamanders

ok thanks and if you could also preply to my question about weaponary on the Lord

thanks

Rhamiel

kramplarv
16-07-2009, 10:51
A story is always a good thing :)

Regarding the weapons? Flail. That's the only thing your Chaos lord need in the weapon area. 5 S7 attacks are most of the time better than anything you can come up with magical weapons. The Axe of Khorne is quite nice, but very expensive. And the Chaos lord is already so expensive that he needs to be cheap.

Flail, shield, Armor of damnation/crimson armor of dargan, collar of khorne to provide the unit he is with some Magical resistance. Ward save looks nice, but there are very few things in the game that ignore your lords armor save. And most of those things can be avoided easily.

Rhamiel
16-07-2009, 11:15
ok right are you talking about the Exhalted hero or the Chaos Lord?
i have already above (post#34) made the point of which items i want my Chaos Lord to have
and the Exhalted Hero i have already deicded upon which weapons he is going to have (mainly becuase i don't want to do conversion work and i would be husing the Jugger model)

Rhamiel

kramplarv
16-07-2009, 12:53
Even though I know what you want, when asking for opinion you must be prepared to hear opinions that differs from your :p

anyway... I'd prefer the axe of Khorne, + enchanted shield and collar of khorne for your exalted/lord on jugger it fit's in quite good with the model itself.

chaos runeshield are a big waste of points since your character will be fighting RnF dudes all day long. Very few times will you fight against something with magic weapons.

chaos runesword... looks nice, but are rather expensive for what it does. A flail or he Axe of khorne is better. Flail becuase it is cheaper and gives you +2S first round of combat. Axe of Khorne since it is +1S and Killing Blow.

chaos demonsword are really cool. But rarely useful. Still, you will have a similar effect of this weapon with a flail. for cheaper cost. and not the possibility to kill yourself.

so, still. Flail/Axe of KHorne. that is the way to go.

Rhamiel
16-07-2009, 14:50
yeh ok but i just like the idea of Runesword and Runeshield
i just like the idea of someone saying, oh my character is unbeatable becuase of his magical items, i then promtly challenge him, and he goes yeh ultimate magical weapon character will defeat your chaos guy
and then the look on his face when all of his points on magical weapons just fade away into nothing, and my khorne lord just lops his head of
and this can even happen with dwarfs as well :)

Rhamiel

kramplarv
16-07-2009, 17:13
well, that is truly an amazing thing. But alas, that will work only once with each opponent. :( And in addition, everyone knows that chaos heroes are bad mothers in close combat, så probably will they only avoid your characters. :( the cowards!

that's my main argument against the runeshield. :p

Rhamiel
16-07-2009, 20:52
ok fine thing but i like the idea

Rhamiel

Rhamiel
17-07-2009, 09:55
sorry to blow this whole thing out of the water
but i was just reading the fluff in the WoC rulebook. and i got to the Archaon area and i got really grabbed by it
so now i'm considering doing a Storm of Chaos army, having mixed of all the gods.
what do you think of this idea, don't get me wrong i like the Khorne pure (well almost) but all of you have raised good points. and i am begginning to really like Archaon
i will look at making army list for the Storm of Chaos and compare

Rhamiel

Rhamiel
17-07-2009, 12:39
sorry to post again
but i have been writing a planed list for the Storm of Chaos (which is sounding better but still has Khorne as the highest ratio of units)
and i have my final 265 points (in my final amount of points 5000)
and it's a choice between Dragon Orge Shaggoth (and finding 20 points to give it a great weapon)
or a Giant with Mark of Slaanesh

just a discion on that thanks

Rhamiel