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Meraell
09-07-2009, 21:20
Hi guys, I want to ask for your opinions and also have a good cry :cries:.

I started playing WHF 1 month more or less, played about 10 games with the TK. I noticed that their most important "pro" isn't strong enough, yes, I'm talking about their magic.

Any army with a decent magic defense can make of my TK army a pile of crap bones.

Today I played against an O&G (it was a draw) army with 7 DD, the incantations range is soooooooo short, and if I move my liches to cast they'll be in danger.

I always play with a "Light Cavalry" unit to redirect but hey, without marching I can't place my cavalry to make a good redirection movement.

I know that I'm a noob and many people told me not to start with the TK because I'll get angry, they are very difficult to play with, etc, etc the same stories you guys will already know.

I found that is a veeeeeeeeeeery slow army and I desesperate, before buying the army I thought "ok, with magic this army will "fly" but the magic phase isn't strong enough (with a King, a prince and 2 liches).

Today, when I was returning home I thought of changing my TK army and start another one so I need your help guys, should I change army or give a try a couple of months to the TK?

In case of changing army I thought of one with medium-high fast units, decent/good magic phase, good redirectors, can participate in all phases and doesn't depend of something crucial like for example TK with the magic.

Tips and help more than welcome, I need to motivate myself.

Thanks beforehand, hope you can understand my english.

Cheers ;).

Charistoph
09-07-2009, 21:29
Might I reccommend Lizards or Elves (High or Dark). All 3 participate in every phase and carry a lot of flavor in every unit. Also, with all 3 being recent books, they aren't automatically thrown under the bus vs Daemons. They also can participate in all phases of the game.

Yiyio
09-07-2009, 21:29
Hi. First you should think, do you like the models and the background of the Tomb Kings? Even if you lose but you like those things about your army its okay, you said you have been playing for 1 month and thats not enough time to fully dominate an army. By now you should focus on having fun and trying to get better with the game. I think you should keep trying with the Tomb Kings, unless you don't like the models/background of course.

forthegloryofkazadekrund
09-07-2009, 21:30
A friend of mine plays TK, so i know a little

Whats the full army size and compsition?, at 2,000 always take a high priest, 2 priests and a prince - if needed - and a ssc + skulls of the foes.

Tomb scorpions are great when they are on form with the poisen and the kb.

A couple of good blocks of infantry with horsemen with a mounted priest to flank

Carrion are worth it for the picking of light characters - wizards/army standards - redirecting, artillery killing and march blocking




They will be redoing the book within the year, if you do decide not to play with them, dont get rid of them but shelf them until then and see

Brother J
09-07-2009, 21:34
TK's are still rocking the 6th edition army book, which means against most 7th edition books you're going to struggle.

In 6th edition TK's were good, in fact I was going to start an army up but ended up taking a break from Warhammer and just got back into it in December.

Personally I think you should keep the TK's until their new book comes out (No idea when the date is scheduled or if it is for them.) and in the mean time start up something else. I wouldn't say go all out on the second army, unless that's what you decide to do, as having two armies can become quite an expensive hobby indeed.

If you're looking for something that can do something in all the phases (Movement counts as a phase ladies and gents) avoid dwarves -_-. They're tough, but they're moving slower then your TK's stuck in a vat of semi melted chocolate. (Augustus Gloop, Augustus Gloop) They're also not meant to do much moving, as their play style is more defensive as determined by their fluff. (There's few left, and they're not wanting to risk their strongholds being overrun by big ole nasty gobbo hordes. Gobbos are just as tall as a dwarf, LAWLZ)

I'd say go for an elven army. Dark Elves aren't bad, and in fact are doing quite well for themselves tourny wise with a few lists.

High Elves are much like the DE's. A few lists and they're doing well in tournies.

Wood Elves don't have a 7th edition book yet, but are still quite possibly in the top 5 for tournies from what I can remember. Though, I don't particularly like their magic. (I'm more straightforward boom you're dead type, which is why I play WoC.)

Between the three elven armies it's really a matter of preference to "Good" and "Evil" or even "Neutral"..Neutral elves..who knew. /eyeroll.

Witchblade
09-07-2009, 22:01
TK definitely not worse than OnG. You can't blame your army for that loss.

TK are a hard army to start playing with though, partially because they are very unique and partially because they require a high degree of planning in advance. A friend of mine also started playing TK a few months ago and he still hasn't mastered the army. Admittedly, he doesn't have a lot of time for the hobby, but you get the idea.

Some tips:
- a Khalida gunline is often considered to be the most powerful TK army. I personally don't find it that much fun to play though.
- Scorpions are amazing. Always fill up your remaining special slots with them.
- Skeleton warriors are only useful as an anvil. I prefer archers, because they can actually hurt units.
- All horsemen suck. ****. Big time. Replace them with chariots and consider them to be medium cavalry.
- Carrion are great march blockers and war machine hunters with their potential 40' move.
- TK and Princes are great and very enduring. You need plenty of Liches to make your magic work though.
- Good set-ups: TK + 3 Liches. HLP + Prince + 2 Liches.
- Tomb Guard are reliable and decent infantry. Give them the Icon of Rakaph to increase their mobility greatly.
- Good items: banner of undying legion (anvil), destroyer of eternities (TK), plaque of incantations (HLP), flying cloak (hierophant), hieratic jar (hierophant/HLP).
- During deployment, keep your army together to stay within incantation range.
- Remember: winning combat + fear + outnumber = auto-break.
- SSC are your best bet at killing monsters.

PARTYCHICORITA
09-07-2009, 22:05
the magic phase isn't strong enough (with a King, a prince and 2 liches).

Here is the problem. At 2Kpts you should either have:

Khalida+3 priests
King+3 priests and probably casket
High priest+2 priests+1 prince

A king and a prince sacrifices a lot of magic for a 2Kpts game.

xpo50
09-07-2009, 22:53
Losing shouldnt matter that much if you have only played a month. In my first month i lost a lot of battles, you have to experiment, and see what you like. For me i dont care how many battles i lose, I just love Dwarfs too much, and games are fun whether I win or lose for me.
As long as you like your army you will do fine, and eventually you are going to win something

The Red Scourge
09-07-2009, 23:52
Take your time with your opponent afterwards and discuss and evaluate the game, what you did wrong, what worked etc. etc. The post-battle talk is the best way to learn how to do better :)

outbreak
10-07-2009, 01:23
if your looking to win (especially against orcs) take a static gun line and watch the leadership tests you can cause. I've found my tk to be quite powerful at low points if i run long lines of archers then reform when they get close enough to charge. Use chariots to guard your flanks if your archers are doing enough damage some oppononents will focus on hitting youir archers rather then your chariots. This list wins for me but i've found it very very boring and it annoys your opponent abit too much.

Canadian_Khan
10-07-2009, 03:29
Hi guys, I want to ask for your opinions and also have a good cry :cries:.

I started playing WHF 1 month more or less, played about 10 games with the TK. I noticed that their most important "pro" isn't strong enough, yes, I'm talking about their magic.

Any army with a decent magic defense can make of my TK army a pile of crap bones.

Today I played against an O&G (it was a draw) army with 7 DD, the incantations range is soooooooo short, and if I move my liches to cast they'll be in danger.

I always play with a "Light Cavalry" unit to redirect but hey, without marching I can't place my cavalry to make a good redirection movement.

I know that I'm a noob and many people told me not to start with the TK because I'll get angry, they are very difficult to play with, etc, etc the same stories you guys will already know.

I found that is a veeeeeeeeeeery slow army and I desesperate, before buying the army I thought "ok, with magic this army will "fly" but the magic phase isn't strong enough (with a King, a prince and 2 liches).

Today, when I was returning home I thought of changing my TK army and start another one so I need your help guys, should I change army or give a try a couple of months to the TK?

In case of changing army I thought of one with medium-high fast units, decent/good magic phase, good redirectors, can participate in all phases and doesn't depend of something crucial like for example TK with the magic.

Tips and help more than welcome, I need to motivate myself.

Thanks beforehand, hope you can understand my english.

Cheers ;).


As a Tk player, I can give you 1 or 2 advices taht will help you get better with them.

Take your time... there is no need to hurry If you have enough anvils *i.e. Skellies, they'll stuck plenty of units whille you prepare your flank charge... and then, it's bad news for the opponent. Tj can be fast, but if you want ALWAYS fast, then don't play them.

Try combined charges. Personnaly, I think skellies + Ushabtis is probably rock hard to beat when it comes to TKs... 3 ranks, banner, outnumber + the kills for 4 Ushabtis (12attacks that'll beat the hell out of the enemy on a 4+-2+ most of the time) will oftertimes do the trick.

My experience tells me that: at least than 7 PD a 2 bound spells, your list will be weak. In a 2K points, I use TK + Priest + Priest + casket + Banner of Undying legion + Staff of ravening. People will often save 2 dice for the casket ( only because it's psychological, it ten not to do a lot really...) so will let at least 2 spells go. Now, you gotta choose the good ones in good times, and THAT is the hardest part.

Select your fights well. Undead will stand their ground against low S troops... Bone giants, Ushabtis, and tomb scoprions with hit hard on low T troops... but will tend to crumble easily when put against rank and file troops.

And finally, give yourself a chance. the TK are very potent, even against new lists, but they are sooooo hard to play and manage that it'll take time for you to master everything in your army

Hope that helps

SuperArchMegalon
10-07-2009, 04:34
I say keep at it - learn the ins & outs as best you can, if you become a formidable TK player you will just be rolling in the wins once they get the buffs they need to compete in 7th edition. Note that being so slow really only makes you vulnerable to shooting - biding your time and forcing the enemy to come into your charge range will still let you do some damage.

snurl
10-07-2009, 05:00
Keep at it. The folks who told you that TK are not easy to play were telling you the truth. With some practice there are many good nasty tricks you can pull off to win battles with them.

Always make sure that at least one of your priests is mounted, to give him some more movement. It will help with getting into range.

Ascendant Valor
10-07-2009, 05:47
If you absolutely must move on, you could always take up Vampire Counts. That way, you save some money - a lot of the units can be transferable between the two armies, barring modeling style and paint scheme.

If you do decide to keep playing your Tomb Kings, which you probably should, you will eventually get the hang of things. You'll see that, once things click, you'll be a more knowledgeable, strategic general. It's all about the Learning Curve, you see. It's almost innately difficult to start Tomb Kings, but the reward for learning how to use them somewhat effectively, in the end, is worth it.

Keep trying, don't lose hope, and best of luck to you, Meraell!

Condottiere
10-07-2009, 06:10
1. You can persevere - however this requires patience and a steep learning curve.

2. You can pack them away for a year until the seventh edition is issued.

3. You can pick another army to amuse yourself until something better comes along.

4. You can start 40K.

Multiple choices allowed.

Sometimes you just need to take your knocks and learn from that.

The SkaerKrow
10-07-2009, 11:46
Very, very few people win in Warhammer Fantasy when they begin. I played for three months before getting my first win, and some of the most successful players in my club got drubbed for months with their favorite armies before they learned all of their nuances. Tomb Kings can be somewhat frustrating because of how finesse oriented that they are, but if you stick with it you'll be able to hang with most anyone, eventually.

Staurikosaurus
10-07-2009, 12:20
Exactly. Fantasy is not 40K or LotR. You will lose - alot. It is going to take quite a few games against different opponents and talking to experienced players before you get a win that you feel good about.

On the plus side, keep on working away on your army and getting games in. You'll be a heavy hitter in no time.

Ixquic
10-07-2009, 13:31
If I was going to run Tomb Kings in the 7th edition environment it would be something along these lines (haven't read the book in a while so somethings may be slightly off)...

King with the Great Weapon with 2 auto hits and killing blow and the wound transferring collar
3 hierophants on horses.

two skeleton archer units
two light chariot units

Tomb Guard for the king to sit in

two tomb scorpions
two screaming skull catapults with skulls of the foe

That army is pretty nasty since there's enough magic that while you may not get everything off that you want, if you need something to go off at all costs it WILL go off since it's almost impossible for someone to have enough anti magic to stop it all. So for the first few turns you put tons of pressure with 4 screaming skull shots a turn causing panics forcing the opponent to come to you. Then you can either use magical movement to get the charges you want or just take it and raise back models. The king is incredibly scary with a potential of 4 auto-hitting killing blow strength 7 attacks a turn on characters and he basically has a 4+ ward save.

I think that army would be pretty nasty and not that hard for a beginner to get used to after a few games.

maaksel
10-07-2009, 15:15
You've been playing a month and you're mad you aren't winning?

You need to get combat strategies down, learn your armies strengths/weaknesses, learn what to charge, and what to tarpit... The list goes on and on.

Ixquic
10-07-2009, 15:56
To be fair if you are new you can put together an army that is really bad and think it's your playing ability that is the problem when really it's your list creating skill.

sulla
10-07-2009, 21:02
Hi guys, I want to ask for your opinions and also have a good cry :cries:.

I started playing WHF 1 month more or less, played about 10 games with the TK.

The good news is that, by buying your TK army, you already have half a VC army. Buy the VC book and expand your army so you can either play as VC or TK. VC are a much easier army to learn with. That way, you can learn the game with VC then switch back to TK as your skills increase and/or the army is revised.

w3rm
11-07-2009, 14:30
I have a small experience with TK and I know their book fairly well. Personally I think giants and all cavalry are crap. With those out of the way we can dissect the list a little bit. The main decision is going to be your lord. I prefer the LHP for the magic. The TK is good but magic is more useful. I like the flying price to warmachine hunt(claok of dunes, GW) and 2 other priests for magic. No real point in taking chariots with out a king as other specials are much better. A nice 25 block of Tomb Guard, 2 scorpions, and 3-5 Carrion should be good. At least 2 blocks of at least 25 Skellies with LA, Shields are necessary. More would be better. 2+ block of 10 archers for support. These guy are great. Use them to whittle down ranks, bait, or get off a flank charge is what these guys are for. For only 80 pts. I recomend 2 SSC for your rares. These guys are great Vs. infantry horde armies and other low LD units.