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zeekill
10-07-2009, 02:11
Now I know Chakax is a bad***, but is he really worth those 335 Points? I mean thats really steep!

minionboy
10-07-2009, 02:48
He is good in very specific situations. If you know you're going against an army that *has* to issue challenges, i.e. Warriors of Chaos and Brettonians, then he's decent at best. In a general tournament army, he's just too many points for what he does.

kardar233
10-07-2009, 06:17
Nah, not even then is he worth it. Even without the use of magic weapons, a Chaos Lord will eat him alive. A standard build (Axe of Khorne, Armour of Damnation, Talisman of Protection, MoT on a Steed) will take one half (.4444 actually) of a wound per turn from Chakax, and will return 1 per turn. Chakax dies in two turns, having only inflicted one wound on the Lord.

He's also not that great against Brets, as they can just choose to use their lance instead of their magic weapon, and it'll be a longer fight, but the Bret will usually win.

The sad thing is that Chakax is either equally or more expensive than either of these.

Only Lizardmen Special Character I'd ever take is Gor'Rok, and only if I'm short on Hero slots, as I'd rather have a pair of Scar-Veterans for his cost.

Eulogy2
10-07-2009, 13:14
none of the LM special characters are worth thier points in my opinion, however its not fair to compare a chaos lord to a LM hero.

if you wanna try him or any of them out then by all means, they may be fun now and then. but dont expect them to be game breaking for you.

Spirit
12-07-2009, 00:57
none of the LM special characters are worth thier points in my opinion, however its not fair to compare a chaos lord to a LM hero.

if you wanna try him or any of them out then by all means, they may be fun now and then. but dont expect them to be game breaking for you.

Agreed, ecept maybe on kroak and mazamundi.

Kroak can be game breaking and mazamundi is the best priced character they have, 600 odd points which includes a lvl 4 stubborn LD9 bsb slann with a stegadon in tow AND special rules.

there's a guy at our shop who runs both at 3k points and it isnt pretty.

Dokushin
12-07-2009, 02:56
Nah, not even then is he worth it. Even without the use of magic weapons, a Chaos Lord will eat him alive. A standard build (Axe of Khorne, Armour of Damnation, Talisman of Protection, MoT on a Steed) will take one half (.4444 actually) of a wound per turn from Chakax, and will return 1 per turn. Chakax dies in two turns, having only inflicted one wound on the Lord.

He's also not that great against Brets, as they can just choose to use their lance instead of their magic weapon, and it'll be a longer fight, but the Bret will usually win.

The sad thing is that Chakax is either equally or more expensive than either of these.

Only Lizardmen Special Character I'd ever take is Gor'Rok, and only if I'm short on Hero slots, as I'd rather have a pair of Scar-Veterans for his cost.

Don't forget that in the FAQ that just came out it's ruled that Chakax's rule allows him to strike before anyone despite the fact he has a greatweapon. 4 re-rollable WS5 S7 ASF attacks are brutal, especially when it's a handweapon coming back against T5 and a 4+ AS and 5+ WS.

The Unbreakable is a pretty big deal (although the re-rollable cold-blooded Ld9 stubborn was already close). The really broken thing, IMO, is re-rolling the LOS rolls, for himself and the Slann in the unit, as lucky template/cannon hits are about the only way to pry the Frog out.

About the brets: They use the lance during the first turn and then have to use the magic weapon, right? So the Bret Lord charges, Chakax gets 4 S7 WS 5 re-rollable attacks (avg 3 hits and 2.5 wounds at -4 to save) and then the Lord gets 4 S6 WS5 attacks (2.6 hits and 1.7 wounds with a 5+ ward), and then after the first round the Lord doesn't stand a chance, and meanwhile Chakax and his unit are Unbreakable.

About the Chaos Lord: FFS, you have to draw the line somewhere. If the guy can get one wound against a Chaos Lord he's doing better than most.

OP: Play him if you want, he's worth the points -- it's just that it's like anything else that costs that much, it starts to really define your army.

Staurikosaurus
12-07-2009, 09:22
Don't forget that in the FAQ that just came out it's ruled that Chakax's rule allows him to strike before anyone despite the fact he has a greatweapon.

Yeah, the FAQ cleared up the rules question by repeating what they said in the rulebook. :rolleyes: As well, I recommend people don't use FAQs. They create more problems than they solve and oftentimes are NOT written by GW. They amount to house rules, which I'm sure people can figure out for themselves.

To the OP, don't take Chakax. You can get 2 Scar Vets for his price and have points left over. Or if you like take an Oldblood, give him 100 pts of wargear and still find that you've saved points.

Dokushin
12-07-2009, 15:41
Yeah, the FAQ cleared up the rules question by repeating what they said in the rulebook. :rolleyes:

In defense of one of the actual useful rulings in the FAQ, the armybook states:


The Key to the Eternity Chamber.
(flavor text omitted)

When he is fighting in a challenge, Chakax gains a 5+ ward save and any enemy model that wishes to attach him automatically strikes last, even if they charged or have an ability that would normally allow them to strike first.

The issue from this rule is that Chakax has a Great Weapon, which means he (also) strikes last. The question, therefore, is: does Chakax strike first, or do they strike in initiative order?

From the FAQ:


Q. Does Chakax's Key to the Eternity Chamber cause enemies in a challenge to strike after his great weapon?

A. Chakax strikes first.

This seems like a clear, effective, and certainly not redundant resolution of the matter, and helps Chakax's value a bit.

Chakax is just more deathstar, but he's good deathstar in combination with a Slann. Again, personally I find the rerollable Look Out, Sir! to be worth a considerable number of points (at least 50) considering the situation of the Slann.

Faddlevins
12-07-2009, 16:29
Don't forget that in the FAQ that just came out it's ruled that Chakax's rule allows him to strike before anyone despite the fact he has a greatweapon. 4 re-rollable WS5 S7 ASF attacks are brutal, especially when it's a handweapon coming back against T5 and a 4+ AS and 5+ WS.

The Unbreakable is a pretty big deal (although the re-rollable cold-blooded Ld9 stubborn was already close). The really broken thing, IMO, is re-rolling the LOS rolls, for himself and the Slann in the unit, as lucky template/cannon hits are about the only way to pry the Frog out.

About the brets: They use the lance during the first turn and then have to use the magic weapon, right? So the Bret Lord charges, Chakax gets 4 S7 WS 5 re-rollable attacks (avg 3 hits and 2.5 wounds at -4 to save) and then the Lord gets 4 S6 WS5 attacks (2.6 hits and 1.7 wounds with a 5+ ward), and then after the first round the Lord doesn't stand a chance, and meanwhile Chakax and his unit are Unbreakable.

About the Chaos Lord: FFS, you have to draw the line somewhere. If the guy can get one wound against a Chaos Lord he's doing better than most.

OP: Play him if you want, he's worth the points -- it's just that it's like anything else that costs that much, it starts to really define your army.

Not to split hairs but a Bret Lord has WS6. Not to mention the kick-**** Virtue (so not a weapon) that lets him reroll hits and wounds in a challenge!

EDIT: It appears as though you did use WS6 in your post. However with the virtue (i don't play with many other bret players so i don't know how common it is to take it - but i would never leave home without it!) he gets just over 3 wounds on Chakky. Which should kill him.

vinny t
12-07-2009, 18:26
Unless playing a Deathstar, no. Most (competent) opponants would avoid him untill given an opportunity to flank and not have to fight him. Just get 3 Scar-Vets. Around the same points!

StarFyreXXX
12-07-2009, 22:33
Chakax really needs to be more points, and nullify ALLenemy magic items tomake him useful. I've used him quite a few times and every game...he dies. Reason: peopleknow how tough he is so they send their lords at that unit and challenge him.

Lords destroy him... he can take heroes..but no one would send a hero to fight off against him.

If he could nullify all enemy items (and cost maybe 400 or so), at least then he would have a chance against lords and win sometimes...as he isnow...if enemy has any mobilelords arounds...expect him tobe 335 pts that will die when he gets to combat.

None of the lizardmen SC are really great/worth their points/very useful...

On a side note, after usingmazdamundi and kroak aswell several times; I find taking aregular slann with the +1 PD ability much better. Mazsdamundi rarely got spells off and Kroak poroved awesome against elven armies...but against chaos/daemons..he wasn'tvery good..

Sanjay

kardar233
12-07-2009, 22:46
Actually, some heroes have a quite good chance. Konrad could do it, with a bit of luck to survive the first turn. The chances of Konrad surviving Chakax's first turn of hitting are about 2/5, but if he does then Chakax is one dead lizard.

I'm not sure about Wulfrik, but if he nominates Chakax then he might do it.

Throgg definitely would eat Chakax. With four wounds, the chance of Chakax killing him on the first turn is essentially nil and average wounds turn out to be about 1.667 (3 turns to kill, and he can either vomit back dealing 3.5 hits, 1.75 wounds, 1.16 after save, killing Chakax in two turns.

Basically, everything hinges on the Hero surviving the first swings, and then chomping the lizard.

Staurikosaurus
13-07-2009, 04:11
@ Dokushin

I didn't find the text confusing at all. When fighting in a challenge, Chakax's opponents strike last. Nothing about Chakax's great weapon, nothing about initiative, nothing about what colour the sky is. They strike last. Meaning after Chakax. That's what the bit about having charged, or having an ability that would allow them to strike first ie>always strikes first, or higher initiative is about.

Havock
13-07-2009, 23:01
Distendable maw :')

PeG
14-07-2009, 11:33
@ Dokushin

I didn't find the text confusing at all. When fighting in a challenge, Chakax's opponents strike last. Nothing about Chakax's great weapon, nothing about initiative, nothing about what colour the sky is. They strike last. Meaning after Chakax. That's what the bit about having charged, or having an ability that would allow them to strike first ie>always strikes first, or higher initiative is about.

I agree that great weapons, charging, ASF etc doesnt do anything and Chakax will strike first against all of these using his great weapon. But inititiative is probably important for when Chakax is going up against another character with a rule that says that all enemies always strike last. For example Nurgle daemons and WE magical items have a wording very similar to the one used in Chkax rule saying that all anemies strike last regardless if they have an ability that would normally allow them to strike first (such as ASF). When two ASL models are facing each other I would suggest looking at initiative (in line with the ruling for two ASF models). The alternative would be to roll a dice.