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Dakkapantz
10-07-2009, 02:30
Hey all,

trying to get my DOW army off the ground and thought i'd ask for help.

I am playing in a little campaign with some friends(We are just playing games so far, no xp or anything special) and wanted to know what would be a good starting lineup for a small game, like 1250 or thereabouts.

I am going up against HE, DE and WOC/WE. I really like the pikemen and crossbows and duellists, but I am worried that I am taking too many core.

Any help would be great,

Cheerz

Dakkapantz

grumbaki
10-07-2009, 02:55
I like your idea for the army, very Tilean. It might not be all that effective, but I approve. But, if you want to be effective, I've got some advice.

1. Pikemen are useless against HE. Pikes go after ASF.
2. Duelists are great, don't leave home without them. Give them pistols only, as they will have 2 close combat weapons with them and will only cost 9 points each.
3. Take RoR. Especially Voland's Venators and the Bearmen of Urslo. Have a hero who is lore of beasts and have him tag along near the Bearmen. Cast Bear's Anger on the leader and he'll be Str 7, T 6 and will have 8 attacks (at +1 to hit on the first turn of combat!) oh, and a 4+ ward. Long Drong's Slayer Pirates arn't bad either, as their pistols still count as str 4 AP and for them it is in every round of combat!
4. Your heroes suck, so go as magic heavy as you can. Consider taking a truth sayer or dark emissary (lvl 3/4 mage, rare choice and a hero choice).

Best of luck!

Condottiere
10-07-2009, 06:40
We really do have very good core. Our weakness is ultra-heavies and magic.

Your most important selection is Rare slots, because they are limited. The default should always be Cannon. The Cannon is our equalizer and at 85 points, affordable.

After that, the rest really depends on who you are facing. RoR, like Braganza Besiegers, will allow you to go into a spitting match with opposing missile troops, Volund's is your armoured fist, Golfag's would be your Sword Masters.

Once you know what your troops can do and what you want to use them against, you should have a fairly enjoyble experience.

Characters are another problem - you are committed to take a Paymaster, and you should take at least a Scroll Caddy along.

Adran
10-07-2009, 07:48
I disagree about pikemen. Sure, they strike after high elves, but against anything other than possibly dragon princes or swordmasters, you should have enough survive to strike back and do some damage. Spears are the bane of most high elves as they double the number of kills you need to do to make sure our toughness 3 5+ armour save model isn't hit. Thus pikemen fighting in three ranks (they still have that don't they) will put the hurt on

grhino
10-07-2009, 08:55
Pikemen fight in four ranks, actually. They can really hurt. There is an old White Dwarf which pitted a 1250 list of DOW against beastmen. I really liked both the army (lookings)and the list. You should look into it!

Awilla the Hun
10-07-2009, 16:49
Alas, the DOW in that battle report got slaughtered, and the pikemen did virtually nothing.

Caboose123
10-07-2009, 18:41
Alas, the DOW in that battle report got slaughtered, and the pikemen did virtually nothing.

Thats harsh.
In that battle rep the DOW player suffered from "only rolling 1s" syndrome... The Khornate Bestigors in particular were lucky... (IIRC)

Slayerthane
10-07-2009, 20:06
Also don't forget the special characters available to Dogs of War such as Lucretia Belladonna and Borgio the Besieger. They take up a lord and a hero choice but can be fun in games. Borgio the Besieger has a rule where you can use his leadership up to 18" away, has a 5+ ward save, causes fear and a mace that if you roll a 6 to hit does a strenght 10 hit.

The truthsayer is much better than the dark emissary. He's got some great spells which complement DoW nicely, and he doesn't need to be babyed since he has a 4+ wardsave, T4, and has 2 str5 attacks with his staff, plus he gives +1 to dispel. The only problem with him is that he takes up a rare slot as well as a hero slot.

Also, it seems alot of DoW players use man-eaters but I've never used them. Don't forget about Ogre units such as Iron-guts which are great for taking out either high toughness or high armor save units. I think Ogres count as special choices in DoW armies whereas they're rare in all other non-ogre armies.

I would say that the paymaster is a must have in any pure DoW armies since he gets all the benefits of a BSB.

Condottiere
10-07-2009, 20:22
The Paymaster is a requirement, like the Bretonnian BSB. Just without the bonus hero slot.

PARTYCHICORITA
10-07-2009, 20:38
From my point of view pikemen are useless.
They are expensive as hell, only average human stats and in order for them to work your enemy has to be a ***** and charge them from the front. DoW have access to some decent troop choices but pikemen are certainly not one of them.

Save your points to get more xbowmen and more cavalry.

Dakkapantz
11-07-2009, 00:26
Wow! Thanks for all the comments everybody! So ROR are good, but I dont kn ow if i'll be able to fit them into smal games. I agree that pikes are overpriced, but I am still going to take them, I need blocks, I dont want a gunline. I also really like halflings, so I want to include a unit of them and maybe a hotpot.

Could anyone help with just a basic starting list? Around 1250 points?

Cheerz

Dakkapantz

Jericho
11-07-2009, 03:19
My experience with Dogs of War has spanned the last 10 years, and I'm still in love with them as much as I ever was. In fact, I am taking them to our club's inaugural tournament this weekend! Hopefully I don't get totally slaughtered like I did when I took these guys to a tournament in the spring (I went magic heavy and my miscast-IF ratio was about 12-1 in 6 games... with that in mind going 1-4 with a draw against a double dragon HE list isn't too terrible!!).

Anyway pikes really aren't that bad against anything T3. Against High Elves I routinely massacre my friend Danny's HE because I simply whittle down his hard-hitting units like Swordmasters and try not to worry too much about the stuff like chariots. Pikes can usually deal with them reasonably well due to S4 attacks.

My tips for army selection:
-Having 2 units of pikes, crossbows and duelists is a solid core for an army. You should be able to do this with 1250, you just won't have many of the extra trimmings.
-A Maneater w/ heavy armor and pistols is a fantastically versatile unit for 90 pts. If you're into football, then treat him as a safety. He can start near the backfield, and then use his high mobility to adapt and fill whatever role he needs to in the game. Usually protecting flanks/missile troops/warmachines are the best roles for him.
-A Truthsayer is my favorite general these days. Half the spells are great, and he's pretty reasonable in combat for a wizard. Ld9 is also a bonus in an army that struggles to get above Ld8.

If you spent ~500 on 2x20 pikes, ~150 on 2x8 Duelists, and ~160 on 2x10 Crossbowmen, then you could have a little bit of wiggle room after taking a Truthsayer and Paymaster w/ heavy armor and enchanted shield. A basic L1 mage for Bear's Anger or whatever might be good. L1 Heavens is also nice for Portent of Far... great to use on a unit of pikes or once you reach bigger games you can use it to boost a missile troop unit with something like a fire mage joined. Re-rolling all those 1's to hit and wound is nice.

5 relatively basic Knights w/ barding and minimal command is a reasonable support unit for quite a small investment as well. I want more of these if I can get my hands on another 5-10 Venators.

My list of worthwhile RoR units is as follows:
-Ricco's Republican Guard, for WS4 and a decent combat character
-Voland's Venators for S4+2, and for the extra punch of Voland himself
-Mengil's Manflayers, simply devastating if used properly and they are very resilient against missile fire. Just don't get them killed, 10 will cost upwards of 350 points! Magic missiles and auto-hit missile fire (Organ Guns) are their bane.
-Bearmen for the Bear's Anger combo.
-Goblin-Hewer, extremely brutal against large blocks of infantry or if you get a flank shot against elite troops. Wiping out a unit of 10 Chaos Warriors in a single shot is a rare delight, I can't think of many other units that have the capability! Being crewed by unbreakable Dwarf Slayers is never a bad thing either. Sadly he takes up Rare + a Hero slot, so you can't take him in a very magic-heavy army.

Most of the other units seem a bit overpriced, or I simply haven't used them yet to comment. Asarnil isn't bad, since he's the only way to get a Dragon in the list. Just bought mine :evilgrin: Stuff like Vespero's Vendetta, Braganza's Besiegers, and Al Muktar's Desert Dogs all seem overpriced.

Anyway there's a Tactica DOW thread on this forum somewhere (I created it a while back), you might get some more ideas in there.

Condottiere
11-07-2009, 16:53
As you can see, the upgraded RoR pack significant punch, but you will find that you can't afford them all.

Since cavalry is core, you could also just deploy a hard hitting mounted force, whose flanks are covered by light troops. You can change your force structure to fit your mood or strategy.

There's a pageantry involved in this army that I don't really find elsewhere.

Dakkapantz
11-07-2009, 23:47
Hey all,

Thanks for the responses, I really apreciate it.

Jericho: Thanks, I checked out the DOW tactica, and it was really useful. It is nice to see everyone's different views on units and their takes on their armies.

My theme for this army is not very tilean, but whatever. I was looking through paint schemes for my army, when I saw the Empire averlanders scheme(black and yellow) and really liked it a lot. I read Averland's background and they have very close ties to the Moot! As halflings are one of my favorite things ever, that was another plus. Also, the Averlander province doesn't have a leader, and is in a stait of turmoil, with all the different nobles trying to overthrow their rivals and become the ruler. When I saw that, I thought that the different nobles would most likely have their own private armies, and be more than willing to hire some outside help. Enter the Dogs of war! So that's my plan. A DOW army painted in the Averland colors, with as many halflings as I can possibly squeeze in.:D I will be converting the pikes and such from the empire models, but chopping off the feathers and the empire symbols in an attempt to make them less empirey and more mercenaryey.

So I have a basic army list(1250 points), and will be taking your advice with the core units choices. So here it is:

Captain: brace of pistols, heavy armour, shield.
Paymaster: brace of pistols, heavy armour, shield.
Wizard: 2 dispel scrolls

20 pikemen: heavy armour, full command.
20 pikemen: heavy armour, full command.

10 crossbowmen
10 crossbowmen

8 duellists: pistols
8 duellists: pistols

12 halfling Fighting cocks

halfling hot pot

This list is in no way supposed to be uber competetive or op. I just want to have fun. If I do take it to any tournies, then i will switch it around a bit.

I would like to know if anyone has rules for the truthsayer, and where/how he fits into the DOW army. Was he an extra for a campaign or what?

Please let me know how you do this weekend Jericho, Hopefully better than last time right?:D I want to see how DOW hold up nowadays.

Thanks a lot everybody,

Cheerz

Dakkapantz

Red Gevhere
12-07-2009, 06:15
I played a DoW list with my pirate army recently, and found that duellists are the best all round unit. You can stick them behind the lines to slip in between units to get off shots or to hit enemy flanks. You can also use them as screen from missile fire (in my case a wood elf player with ONLY archers and fast cav). Besides that, I always use Long Drong (they're pirates and so is the rest of my army), and/or a unit of Ogre Leadbelchers, which are devastating. I take a full unit of 5 everytime, and have never miss-fired with them. Likewise, when they hit, I always get at least a total of 30 hits, which usually means at least 15 wounds at -2 to armor. Very devastating (especially against knights!).
I cant really recommend any other RoR, for I don't find them to be very useful (I hate crossbows and I hate pikemen).

Condottiere
12-07-2009, 07:18
If your intent is just screening, than the Fighting Cocks give more value for money - though I would avoid all combat with them, exception being Skinks and Goblins.

Ancre
12-07-2009, 19:03
Get 9 duellists instead of 8 ? That's from a purely tactical point of view, as one more means one more kill needed to make a panic test. This is also true for the 12-mans units, but it would lead to unequal ranks, and that doesn't look nice.

Good luck with your averlanders dogs of war !

Dakkapantz
12-07-2009, 22:26
Hey all,

Red: I completely agree with you, Duellists are amazing. They should definitley have a spot in every DOW army. I have also heard good things about leadbelchers, though I'm not sure whether I will field them or not. I have a friend with a beautiful DOW army, and he usually fields 2 units of 2 leadbelchers. They sit between/ on the flanks of his pikemen and unload on units that get close, then charge them in the flank when the opposing unit charges the pikes, which usually hold, since they have the BSB and General nearby.

Condottiere: I intend to stick my halflings in a forest and march block/ shoot at units with their awesome BS4. As an orc and ork player, I am not used to having good BS.

Ancre: Thanks for the advice. I think That I will actually field 1 unt of 10, and swap a unit of pikes for Ricco's Republican guard, which I picked up on ebay a few days ago, along with the Fighting Cocks and a hot pot YAY!!!:D

It would be really cool if anyone who is currently playing DOW could post how their games have been going recently, maybe a small Battle report or something. Just a thought.

Cheerz

Dakkapantz