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View Full Version : Amazing news on Daemons in planet strike!!!



Lotoc_Sabbath
10-07-2009, 09:42
hi guys,

for those who don't know it yesterday I was talking with one of my GW friends and he said he had discovered that when daemons attack they can't deep strike and assault!!!

why...daemons don't have the deep strike special rule INCLUDED IN THEIR PROFILE

he also pointed out that when they defend they should be already on the table, the first half because in the planet strike book it clearly sates that the defender deploys his forces in the case of daemons they arrive in deep strike...:D

so daemons are not so unbalanced as I thought before instead they become very normal....

Dark Primus
10-07-2009, 09:48
hi guys,

for those who don't know it yesterday I was talking with one of my GW friends and he said he had discovered that when daemons attack they can't deep strike and assault!!!

why...daemons don't have the deep strike special rule INCLUDED IN THEIR PROFILE

he also pointed out that when they defend they should be already on the table, the first half because in the planet strike book it clearly sates that the defender deploys his forces in the case of daemons they arrive in deep strike...:D

so daemons are not so unbalanced as I thought before instead they become very normal....

Key word "should"? He doesn't sound sure.
Maybe an issue that will have to be resolved between the players before they start playing.

Nuage
10-07-2009, 09:56
Well...
Il would seem logical if the PlanetStrike deployement rules overrode Daemonic Assault.

If Daemons defend, the whole Daemon army begin the game on the board; if the attack, they follow the PS specific rules. That's how we will rule it my gaming group, at least.

And I agree with your friend; by RAW, the DS rule have to be included in the unit profile for them to be able to assault the turn they arrive - and that is not the case for Daemons.

Nuage.

Bob Hunk
10-07-2009, 10:19
I'm afraid I disagree repectfully disagree with the assessment that they can't assault. :)

For starters, where is "profile" actually defined? As others have observed, Deep Strike isn't listed in the special rules section of Assault Marines entry in the army list, yet they are the example in the Planet Strike book!
Indeed very few units in modern codicies have it listed, rather it is inferred from the fact that they are jump troops (BRB definition) or have wargear such as Terminator armour or Battlesuits (various codex definitions). :p

If the chance to assault after deep strike is really limited to those with Deep Strike specifically listed as a seperate special rule in the army list, then the number of units this applies to is going to be surprisingly short, and counter to what you might expect (under the 'rule of cool'). :)

Obviously I can't speak for the designers, but I'd imagine the condition about Deep Strike appearing in their profile was likely intended to prevent units from assault from deep striking vehicles or other technology (Veil of Darkness?).

Units that have the rule via equipment that is intrinsically part of their unit entry should indeed be able to benefit from this - including daemons - IMHO. :cool:

Baragash
10-07-2009, 10:22
hi guys,

for those who don't know it yesterday I was talking with one of my GW friends and he said he had discovered that when daemons attack they can't deep strike and assault!!!

why...daemons don't have the deep strike special rule INCLUDED IN THEIR PROFILE

he also pointed out that when they defend they should be already on the table, the first half because in the planet strike book it clearly sates that the defender deploys his forces in the case of daemons they arrive in deep strike...:D

so daemons are not so unbalanced as I thought before instead they become very normal....

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208241

Old news rejected for:
Ridiculous inconsistency
Against the example given in the book
Against the way the Planetstrike author played it in the inaugral BatRep
Against the article(s) on the GW site

Rirekon
10-07-2009, 10:23
I honestly feel that the intention was that units that can normally deploy via deep strike get to assault. This is to add value to the deep strike deployment rule which would otherwise be taken away due to all units deep striking.

As such Terminators, Warp Spiders with Exarch, Daemons, Winged Warriors, etc.. would all benefit from it. However Necron Lords with the Veil, Librarians in Power Armour etc.. wouldn't.

Nuage
10-07-2009, 10:25
Units that have the rule via equipment that is intrinsically part of their unit entry should indeed be able to benefit from this - including daemonsBut is that the case for Daemons ?
It is the Daemonic Assault rule that give them DS.
And, well, I do think that Planetstrike rules override Daemonic Assault; but maybe that is just me :)

Nuage.

Revlid
10-07-2009, 10:31
Units that have the rule via equipment that is intrinsically part of their unit entry should indeed be able to benefit from this - including daemonsBut is that the case for Daemons ?
It is the Daemonic Assault rule that give them DS.
...Which is intrinsically part of their unit entry. :eyebrows:

As has been said, it makes no sense to grant the "Assault via Deepstrike" ability to Assault Marines and not to Daemons. Anyone who says otherwise is, frankly, being rather foolish.

Bob Hunk
10-07-2009, 10:35
But is that the case for Daemons ?
It is the Daemonic Assault rule that give them DS.


I would say it is the case, as under their special rules they all have the rule Daemon listed, which grants invulnerable saves, immunity from ID and deep strike via daemonic assault.
As these are all specifically described under the Daemon rule, which is in their profile, I'd say it was granted by equipment/rules that were intrinsically part of their unit entry. :)

When Daemons are attacking, I don't think there is anything in the Planet Strike rules to override Daemonic Assault, although when defending I would agree that Daemons should begin the game deployed, as the defender deployment rules do contridict Daemonic Assault, and thus should probably overwrite it. :)

Nuage
10-07-2009, 10:36
Oh, well.
I won't try to argue :)

It is just that in my opinion, having an army that, when attacking, have half his army and the two third of his reserve come into play - with everybody able to assault... well, that's what seems rather foolish to me.
But as always with 40K, there is nothing that can't be house ruled :)

Each to his own, I guess !

Nuage.

MajorWesJanson
10-07-2009, 10:39
Pete Foley: I love playing with Chaos Daemons in the 41st Millennium, and with the advent of the new Planetstrike rules I love it even more. If there is an army more specifically designed to kick butt as the attacker in a Planetstrike game it is the Daemons. Because all units can now Deep Strike when assaulting an enemy stronghold, units which already have the Deep Strike special rule can assault on the turn that they arrive! Since every unit in the Daemon army can Deep Strike it means that your whole army can assault on the turn they arrive!

Planetstrike: Preparing for War (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?community=&catId=&categoryId=cat60017a&pIndex=7&aId=15700002&start=8)

DarkStarr
10-07-2009, 10:41
Well you are wrong, demons may charge on the turn they deep strike, its on the gw site, here is the link.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?community=&catId=&categoryId=cat60006a&pIndex=7&aId=15700002&start=8

player21
10-07-2009, 11:09
Well there it is in writing. Daemons have deepstrike and gets all the benfits in plantstrike.

Rirekon
10-07-2009, 11:14
Does it mention whether Daemons get to use their normal deployment method or whether they must abide by the Planetstrike rules? I am leaning towards them being forced to use the Planetstrike rules rather than their own (no automatically DSing half in the first turn etc..). It also makes a lot more sense when they are the defender

edit; Just read the article *slaps forehead*

Defending a planet where none of your models start on the board does seem slightly counter-intuitive, but it can be a lot of fun.
So Daemons use their normal deployment method and get all the benefits of the Planetstrike rules... not how I would have done it but there we go

samiens
10-07-2009, 11:15
of course, they can't charge on the turn they deep strike if defending. Otherwise, the proposition that they don't have the deep strike rule is preposterous

CEO Kasen
10-07-2009, 11:39
People are already debating this on the Rules forum, guys. :p

pookie
10-07-2009, 12:31
id laugh at the red/blue/black ( or what ever colour ) shirt who said that, a Unit that has to deploy using the DS rules, then cant follow them? what was he smoking? must have been good.

boogle
10-07-2009, 12:45
Can't wait for FW to update their Army lists, Imagine a full DSing army (Elysians), with Troopers and Sentinels dropping in, and assaulting (if feasible), with Valkyries and Vultures providing Air cover

Fenrir
10-07-2009, 12:47
I wonder how many times this is going to turn up as a "shock news" development when someone finds it in the rulebook?

Edonil
10-07-2009, 14:34
I wonder how many times this is going to turn up as a "shock news" development when someone finds it in the rulebook?

Many, of course. People still have this with stuff from C:SM after all.

HsojVvad
10-07-2009, 14:56
Uh guys, why are some of you changing the rules, just because you don't like them? If it says in the Deamons codex they can do it, they can do it. Remember Codex trumps rule books. The BRB is a rule book. Planetstrike is a rule book.

And now with the links given saying that Deamons can do it, shouldn't it be case solved now?

x-esiv-4c
10-07-2009, 17:09
They are changing the rules because they can. It's your game, play it as you want.

HsojVvad
10-07-2009, 17:20
Just reading the link from above. How come, if I am reading it correctly, every unit that DS, can attack after DS. So how come when it comes to Tyranids, the person says, under the Carni pick, that Carnifexs can't attack when they DS.

Why would the carni be any other different than all the other units that can?

x-esiv-4c
10-07-2009, 17:25
Can carnis DS in a normal game?

HsojVvad
10-07-2009, 18:07
Can carnis DS in a normal game?

No they can't. Maybe I miss read the rules. I thought every unit can DS in Planetstrike. So you telling me, if you can DS in a nomral game, you can DS and attack in Planetstrike? If you can't DS in a normal game you can't DS in Planetstrike then?

DarkstarSabre
10-07-2009, 18:10
...This whole thread had destroyed that tiny little sliver of an ounce of faith that I had in humanity.

Let's be frank here folks. Planetstrike, like Apocalypse is one of those things that you need to discuss and work out with your friends/gaming group/left hand before you even set up a table. It's one of those things that you need to sit down and hash out before you even touch it. It's another example of 40k becoming a beer and pretzels, for fun! hobby and not an ubar-competitive-WIN WIN WIN CHEESE! fest that it was drifting towards.

The rules state that units without Deep Strike in their unit entry cannot assault after Deep Striking. I'm at a lost to find things that have Deep Strike in their Unit entry. I find things that have Deep Strike from items of wargear such as Terminator Armour and Jump Packs. I find lots of those.

I find entire armies that Deep Strike but have a single rule along the lines of Daemon which is basically a quick way to say that USRs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 apply to this model because the whole Daemon schtick is the fact it's a number of USRs that apply across the board.

If you pulled this RAW, rules lawyering nitpicking crap with me your HEAD would be deep striking onto the table for stupidity.

x-esiv-4c
10-07-2009, 18:28
I was under the impression that every unit in PS can deepstrike. Units that can deepstrike normally, can now assault after they deepstrike.

Then again I could be totally wrong since that statement was made from observations on warseer and not the rulebook.

Fred_Scuttle
10-07-2009, 18:32
I was under the impression that every unit in PS can deepstrike. Units that can deepstrike normally, can now assault after they deepstrike.

Then again I could be totally wrong since that statement was made from observations on warseer and not the rulebook.

The comments you've seen are correct as they directly reflect the PS book.

Fred

Bookwrak
10-07-2009, 18:34
Not quite.

I was under the impression that every unit in PS can deepstrike. Units that can deepstrike normally, can now assault after they deepstrike.

Then again I could be totally wrong since that statement was made from observations on warseer and not the rulebook.
Not every attacking unit can automatically deep strike. Lemans Russes, for example, have to roll onto the board. Bikes in general cannot DS.

All your infantry, however, can. So tac squads, terminators, firewarriors, aspect warriors, necron warriors, mobz, can all deep strike when they're the attackers. If such units already have the deep strike rule, like Flayed Ones, or Daemons, then they can not only deep strike, but also assault the turn on which they do so.

Tae
10-07-2009, 18:34
I was under the impression that every unit in PS can deepstrike. Units that can deepstrike normally, can now assault after they deepstrike.

Almost. The front of the PS book contains a list of those types of units which may now enter play via deepstrike (e.g. infantry, etc.). There's also a list of types of unit which may only enter via the drop zone (i.e. board edge) such as vehicles, beasts etc.

Any units which could normally enter the game via deepstrike may now assault after they deepstrike.

The arguments are revolving around whether a certain unit has the DS rule in a way which complies with the wording in the front of the PS book. An argument I personally am not interested in in the slightest, as PS strikes me as an expansion of 40k which is designed to be played amongst friends, not in a tournament environment (though I'm sure some people will disagree).

Edit: Damn Ninjas!

HsojVvad
10-07-2009, 18:51
Ah I see now. GW was wrong in the link above then saying every unit can DS and then attack. So the rule is something like Fleet then.

You can run but can't attack in CC if you don't have Fleet. So you can DS but you can't attack, unless you have DS in your profile or the ability to DS because of gear.

DarkStarr
11-07-2009, 06:24
I personally would say that if a unit can deep strike for any reason out of the army book they can charge when they arrive. Like a librarian with his power, and drop pods should allow units to assault, and keep it simple, if it can deep strike in any way shape or form from the parrant codex than it may assault.

jesusjohn
12-07-2009, 00:17
I remember a tome when i played this game for fun and the people in this hobby played by the spirit of the rules and a litle common sense.

Tae
12-07-2009, 09:39
I remember a tome when i played this game for fun and the people in this hobby played by the spirit of the rules and a litle common sense.

A lot of us still do play the game by the spirit of the rules and with a little common sense.

But there's no harm in knowing the actual rules before we chose to whether or not to depart from them.

Earthbeard
12-07-2009, 09:51
If you read the actual description for Demonic Assault it's only the first half of the army that use it, it's wording specifically state the second half arrive via the "deepstrike" rules.

Personally you'd have to be a bit of penis, to say demons can't assault arriving in planetstrike missions.

ArtificerArmour
12-07-2009, 12:18
Don't really know what the issue is, most daemons have to land within 6inchs of something to charge them. Thats inviting scatter, either and average of 7inchs (into either far aware charge next turn land, or mishap city into the unit you want to charge). Which we daemon players know is the bane of our existence.