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petpetpetpet
11-07-2009, 11:07
I think im getting better with the lists and slowly getting better as a player at this game :) Anyways here is my list, hopefully u can gimme some tips:-

Characters.

Warlord
Weeping blade, heavy armour shield; bands of power, warpstone amulet.

Warlock engineer
All gear but pistol, stormdaemon, dispel scroll.

Warlock engineer
All gear but pistol, dispel scroll.

Chieftain
Heavy armour, BSB, Sacred Standard of the horned rat.

Core.

25 Clanrats
Full command, ratling gun.

24 Clanrats
Full command, ratling gun.

20 Slaves
Musician

20 Slaves
Musciain.

2 Globadiers

2 Globadiers

24 Stormvermin
Full command, banner of the swarm.

Special.

25 Plague Monks
Full command, additional hand weapons, banner of burning hatred.

6 Jezzails

3 Gutter Runners
Tunnelling team, poisoned handweapons.

Rare

Warplightning cannon.

5 Plague Censer bearers.

1999 Points

General plan, warlord+bsb sit inside stormvermin unit, static CR of 7 or sth like that and fear a big uber unit basically. 2 engineers run about in the clanrat units, ratling guns do their thing as do jezzails, plague monks hit them in the centre with the stormvermin from fleeing slaves....globadiers just for skirmishing annoyance and the WLC for big monsters and the such.

Thanks

Any tips?

Pet

matticusmaximus
13-07-2009, 06:17
Solid looking list you got there! Just a few suggestions:

1. Find 4 points to spare somewhere and bump up your slave units to 21 models apiece. This way they can take 6 casualties before having to panic, rather than 5, and we want to get the maximum value out of those damned slaves! I don't have my book on me at the moment, but I believe you can pick up those extra points by getting rid of the heavy armor on your BSB (ideally he's sitting at the back of the stormie unit, out of combat, so the armor isn't necessary)

2. I'm not a huge fan of the Sacred Standard of the Horned Rat; the War Banner seems like better value to me. However, the prospect of a large, 7 static CR, fear causing unit is quite amazing. My only concern is how expensive the unit is. With that setup, you're pouring somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 points into one infantry block. If that unit is broken and caught, then you're handing your opponent about 900 VPs (~600 for the unit and characters, 200 for the two standards, 100 for bagging the general). So, while the unit has huge potential for autobreaking big nasty enemies, be warned that the dice gods go both ways. Huge potential for success = huge potential for loss. So it goes with Skaven.

3. I'm a fan of larger tunneling teams, but this is usually due to the fact that I use them to go after Dwarven war machine crews. Depending on your main opponents, you might want to beef these guys up.

4. Same goes for the censer bearers. I like to run a unit of 7, but, if you're needing to max out points here, I can definitely agree with the smaller unit

5. If you find yourself with any points left over after edits to the list, consider investing in either night runners of giant rats. I always find a use for these guys, whether it's slaughtering skinks with the night runners, or flank charging and denying enemy rank CR with the giant rats. Cheap units, and can fill a multitude of roles.

Aside from that, all I can tell you is to make intelligent charges, get used to that 10" charge range, and make sure you're managing the frenzy of your Pestilens troops to get their full value.

Good luck! Skaven were my first army, are my main army, and will always be my favorite army!

Chaseyboy1er
13-07-2009, 15:03
alrighty, i may have some points to consider.
1.drop the ratling guns. Although they are better now from the FAQ, they still suck up a whole lot of points. with them not in your list, you could have a whole unit of clanrats, or more jezzails to add.
2. I wouldn't run globadiers 2 strong. Once one dies, the other one will run, i would make it one unit of 4, or not take them at all.
3. Storm vermin are, in my opinion, only useful in friendly games, but even in that they won't do well. They also suck up a whole lot of points, i'm guessing that the unit is about 250ish points. so you could get a whole lot of stuff.
4.If you're taking plauge monks just to take censer bearers, make them 10 strong, and let them just walk around. I'm also guessing that this unit takes up a pretty big chunk of your points as well.
5.jezzails work best with me at least 8 strong. but you don't need to increase them, 6 is fine.
6. You need another unit of tunnelers, unit size 4-6 with poison hand weapons. these units are nasty, and one won't just cut it anymore.
7. slaves should be at least 21 strong, it helps out a whole lot.
8. and drop the big banner on the cheiften, and give him a warbanner.

you don't reallly need to do any of this, your list isn't that bad, this is just what i do, and it works pretty fine for me.

petpetpetpet
13-07-2009, 17:44
Hiya thanks for the replies!


1. Find 4 points to spare somewhere and bump up your slave units to 21 models apiece. This way they can take 6 casualties before having to panic, rather than 5, and we want to get the maximum value out of those damned slaves! I don't have my book on me at the moment, but I believe you can pick up those extra points by getting rid of the heavy armor on your BSB (ideally he's sitting at the back of the stormie unit, out of combat, so the armor isn't necessary)

Hmm yeah thats a good idea, Im not sure really what to drop though I did lose quite alot to get the list as it is, maybe the bands of power on the warlord?


2. I'm not a huge fan of the Sacred Standard of the Horned Rat; the War Banner seems like better value to me. However, the prospect of a large, 7 static CR, fear causing unit is quite amazing. My only concern is how expensive the unit is. With that setup, you're pouring somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 points into one infantry block. If that unit is broken and caught, then you're handing your opponent about 900 VPs (~600 for the unit and characters, 200 for the two standards, 100 for bagging the general). So, while the unit has huge potential for autobreaking big nasty enemies, be warned that the dice gods go both ways. Huge potential for success = huge potential for loss. So it goes with Skaven.

Yeah, I've found them to be quite effective though, 3+ armour saves too, maybe I should swap banner of the swarn for the umbranner? I lose alot at Fantasy cos im new to the game, but they've only been beaten once by TombGuard and that was due to the Khemri magic, I've read alot about deathstar units, etc and the stormvermin seem to work quite well for me so far.


3. I'm a fan of larger tunneling teams, but this is usually due to the fact that I use them to go after Dwarven war machine crews. Depending on your main opponents, you might want to beef these guys up.

4. Same goes for the censer bearers. I like to run a unit of 7, but, if you're needing to max out points here, I can definitely agree with the smaller unit

5. If you find yourself with any points left over after edits to the list, consider investing in either night runners of giant rats. I always find a use for these guys, whether it's slaughtering skinks with the night runners, or flank charging and denying enemy rank CR with the giant rats. Cheap units, and can fill a multitude of roles.

Yeah I agree with this, cheap and cheerful tunnel teams are just there to take out a cannon usually, although I have killed minotaurs and DE executioners with them, again I was struggling for points and tried to squeeze in too much.

Pcbs I still havent figured out how to use them properly so I think if i ruin a cheap and cheerful unit until i figure out it should be okay.


night runners of giant rats

Yeah I agree, I think I've got the flanks covered though, this skaven is more of an elite army.

Sorry I didnt respond to the 2nd post Im short for time atm, thanks for the comments.


Pet!

fubukii
13-07-2009, 17:57
the list is highly lacking in terms of numbers. Its a good list is you are going surely for friendly gaming. couple of things stand out

- 6pd and 2 bounds items still isnt a very good magic phase, i understand taking a 3rd warlock may be unfriendly but its effectiveness is much greater then any other choice.
- As said before storm vermin are rather iffy, its a ultra expensive block of skaven that die only slightly less then a clanrat. Most units are highly capable of beating them despite thier +7cr. In addition theres no reason to give them the banner of the swarm over the warbanner, as the warbanner always works and results in the same cr, while the swarm ma not work at all.
- ratling guns are decent and 1-2 is all you really need.
-2 man pwg units are good for several reasons. One of which is its a good throw away choice. If one dies sure they will run but if if you have 4 if 1 dies they still run..... its not hard to kill t3 no save models so minimize your loses by making them as small as possible making the enemy not want to shoot at them.
- the list needs more clanrats/slaves. 2 units of each is not enough. the slaves also need to be 21 strong at the least.
- drop the plague monks. they arent really good at killing anything but the softest and weakest of targets. If you wish to add a Plague priest then fine keep them as he makes the unit worth it. And if you wish to keep the PCB i suggest taking a min sized unit of tenwith no upgrade, and making the PCB unit 9 strong.
- jezzails i would make at least 7 strong
-tunnel teams are best in teams of 5 with posioned hand weapons. i usually run 2 teams at least
- with the suggested changes you will have more charge redirecters and will be able to stop those hammer units from hitting your lines. I suggest tho that the storm vermin are dropped, every other army has units that will run through them like they are zombies.... which isnt good for a pricey unit.

matticusmaximus
13-07-2009, 20:41
Hiya thanks for the replies!
Hmm yeah thats a good idea, Im not sure really what to drop though I did lose quite alot to get the list as it is, maybe the bands of power on the warlord?


No, never drop the bands of power. They are one of the best bound spell items in the game, and keeping it in your back pocket will force your opponent to choose between dispelling your warp-lightning or preventing your Warlord from hitting like a freight train.

Like I said, drop the heavy armor from the BSB and you should have the points.

In contrast to what other posters have said, I'd keep the plague monks the way they are. Throwing out 16 attacks on the charge with hatred and 4 static CR is not shabby at all. Just make sure you throw them at the right targets, i.e. lightly armored expensive troops, because they will get rolled by anything with heavy armor and a shield.

As for your "deathstar" unit, keep in mind that as part of the larger picture, Stormvermin are not particularly elite. Don't be tempted to throw them at other "deathstar" units, because they will fall flat on their faces. As a corollary to the above, I would not recommend the Umbranner. If you're committing yourself to a deathstar unit, then they're going to need all the static CR they can get. Your slaves should be shielding the Stormvermin from shooting, anyways, and with the general right behind them even the slaves should good for a panic test or two.

One more thing. Run jezzails in units of 5 or 9. Other numbers are a waste of points, the reason being that a unit of 5 can take 2 wounds before testing for panic, and a unit of 9 can take 3 wounds before panic. Anything in between is just throwing away VPs in the event of a panic. A unit of 8 Jezzails, for example, will still panic after 2 casualties, just like a unit of 5, but when the unit panics, it takes 60 more VPs with it. As a general rule with Skaven, you always want to watch for how many casualties before panic, minimize your options, and increase the number of units you roll in with.

Like I said earlier, if there are any points left to scrape, you should seriously consider bringing just a 1-pack unit of Giant Rats. Have them run with the Stormvermin and flank charge whatever the Stormvermin get in battle with. Denying the enemy his +3 ranks and getting + 1 for a flank charge could go a long way to winning combat for you and guaranteeing that auto-break, for only 30 points a pack!

Griffery
14-07-2009, 04:45
I'm just wondering why are there so many plague monks, and so few jezzails or other things. Also why only 3 gutter runners and 2 units of 2 globadiers. You might as well drop the globadiers and get more runners or something. I am not that good with Skaven yet but that seems to be my observations so far.

Kill-Freedom
14-07-2009, 04:50
Id drop the storm vermin, they are way too costly for a skaven unit.

petpetpetpet
14-07-2009, 17:44
1.drop the ratling guns. Although they are better now from the FAQ, they still suck up a whole lot of points. with them not in your list, you could have a whole unit of clanrats, or more jezzails to add.

Hmmm what's the SKaven FAQ? i've not read it. Anyway I tried life qwithout ratling guns and it wasn't so good, in my last game I killed that Dark elf witchking character with ratling guns, magic weapons ftw! :D



2. I wouldn't run globadiers 2 strong. Once one dies, the other one will run, i would make it one unit of 4, or not take them at all.

Just for marchblocking mainly, I could do that but they don't hit very much normally on a 5/4+.


3. Storm vermin are, in my opinion, only useful in friendly games, but even in that they won't do well. They also suck up a whole lot of points, i'm guessing that the unit is about 250ish points. so you could get a whole lot of stuff.
4.If you're taking plauge monks just to take censer bearers, make them 10 strong, and let them just walk around. I'm also guessing that this unit takes up a pretty big chunk of your points as well.

I used to think the stormvermin were too expensive for a 5+ sv, t3 rat...but at the end of the day I've given them a chance and they've never failed me.
The plague monks are awesome too loads fo attacks they seem to do alot of damage, Censer bearers I'm not too keen of but my mates reckon they're good I keep trying them but usually they get shot to death or gas themselves to death, I've not had much success with them.



5.jezzails work best with me at least 8 strong. but you don't need to increase them, 6 is fine.
6. You need another unit of tunnelers, unit size 4-6 with poison hand weapons. these units are nasty, and one won't just cut it anymore.
7. slaves should be at least 21 strong, it helps out a whole lot.
8. and drop the big banner on the cheiften, and give him a warbanner.

5+6. Points squeeze
7. I agree will try to find the points.
8. I love the Sacred standard, can I give the stormvermin banner the warbanner instead?


- 6pd and 2 bounds items still isnt a very good magic phase, i understand taking a 3rd warlock may be unfriendly but its effectiveness is much greater then any other choice.
- As said before storm vermin are rather iffy, its a ultra expensive block of skaven that die only slightly less then a clanrat. Most units are highly capable of beating them despite thier +7cr. In addition theres no reason to give them the banner of the swarm over the warbanner, as the warbanner always works and results in the same cr, while the swarm ma not work at all.
- ratling guns are decent and 1-2 is all you really need.
-2 man pwg units are good for several reasons. One of which is its a good throw away choice. If one dies sure they will run but if if you have 4 if 1 dies they still run..... its not hard to kill t3 no save models so minimize your loses by making them as small as possible making the enemy not want to shoot at them.

I agree, but Stormvermin have been performing really well for me lately, probably my heroes over the last few games.



- the list needs more clanrats/slaves. 2 units of each is not enough. the slaves also need to be 21 strong at the least.
- drop the plague monks. they arent really good at killing anything but the softest and weakest of targets. If you wish to add a Plague priest then fine keep them as he makes the unit worth it. And if you wish to keep the PCB i suggest taking a min sized unit of tenwith no upgrade, and making the PCB unit 9 strong.
- jezzails i would make at least 7 strong
-tunnel teams are best in teams of 5 with posioned hand weapons. i usually run 2 teams at least
- with the suggested changes you will have more charge redirecters and will be able to stop those hammer units from hitting your lines. I suggest tho that the storm vermin are dropped, every other army has units that will run through them like they are zombies.... which isnt good for a pricey unit.

Im struggling on points to fit all the stuff in so I dropped a few bodies here and there. I dgree in the stormvermin they have a 3+ save in melee, fear and cr 7.

Sry will reply when i get more time.

Futant
14-07-2009, 20:10
I haven't played since 6th edition and have decided to get back into the game. I haven't read any 7th material but I have some suggestions for your SAD list.

First I think you shouldn't buy the Sacred Standard as it isn't going to be worth its points in a shooty list. You would probably be better off with a banner of swarm and the battle banner which would give you a better cr instead of using a passive aggressive fear causing banner. I've never used storm vermin but that is the only useful way that I see to make them effective.

For your slaves I would take out the musician and add another model making them 21 just to give them a better ratio for panic. (6 instead of 5)

With the extra points you save for getting a cheaper banner you could almost up your jezzails to 9, or you could put in another 3 rat tunnel team. Another option would be the storm banner to give your smallish horde a turn of protection vs. shooting.

Just my two cents and my first message!

Futant
14-07-2009, 20:15
Check out my list

Grey Seer- Eye of the Horned Rat, Tenebrous Cloak, Warpstone Charm

Warlock Engineer- Everything but the pistol, Strom Daemon, Dispel Scroll

Plague Priest- Plague Censer, Liber Bubonicous, Warpstone Token

Chieftan BSB- Heavy Armour, and Umbranner


28 Clanrats- Mus, Std, and Champ. Equipped with spears. (My four characters start here)

25 Clanrats- Mus, and Std
w/ WFT

25 Clanrats- Mus, and Std
w/ WFT

20 Slaves

20 Slaves

5 Giant Rat Packs

5 Giant Rat Packs

4 Giant Rat Packs

3 Gutter Runners= Poison, tunnel team

3 Gutter Runners- Poison, tunnel team

3 PWG

3 PWG

2 PWG

Notes* I would love to add more slaves, but I have no models left so I am stuck with a total of 40 for now. Also I would like to replace the WFT with Rattling Guns but I don't have the models. This is pretty much a list of everything that I own to make a decent armie, and am trying to finish off paint my last unit of clanrats and slaves before buying anything new. Hopefully the new army book will be out by then:)

My General strategie is the checkerboard formation. Spear rats in the center, with the two slaves in the front flanks. The other clanrats in behind the flank of the slaves and the giant rat packs on the far flanks.

petpetpetpet
15-07-2009, 17:44
I'm just wondering why are there so many plague monks, and so few jezzails or other things. Also why only 3 gutter runners and 2 units of 2 globadiers. You might as well drop the globadiers and get more runners or something. I am not that good with Skaven yet but that seems to be my observations so far.

because Plague Monks rank up, the others are skirmishers and obviously it's more important to have numbers when ranked up.


Id drop the storm vermin, they are way too costly for a skaven unit.

Possibly, I've had quite alot of success with them lately though, they seem a tough nut to crack, the toughest a SKaven army has to offer.


First I think you shouldn't buy the Sacred Standard as it isn't going to be worth its points in a shooty list. You would probably be better off with a banner of swarm and the battle banner which would give you a better cr instead of using a passive aggressive fear causing banner. I've never used storm vermin but that is the only useful way that I see to make them effective.

I agree but I mainly play against combat lists and vs shooty lists they do get into combat alot and that being outnumbered by fear causing enemy rule is very useful as SKaven don't really have the power to punch through units in melee, this is about the only way I can get them to run away and kill units reliably.


For your slaves I would take out the musician and add another model making them 21 just to give them a better ratio for panic. (6 instead of 5)

With the extra points you save for getting a cheaper banner you could almost up your jezzails to 9, or you could put in another 3 rat tunnel team. Another option would be the storm banner to give your smallish horde a turn of protection vs. shooting.

I tried that but I was struggling for points to fit everything into the list I wanted.


Grey Seer- Eye of the Horned Rat, Tenebrous Cloak, Warpstone Charm

Warlock Engineer- Everything but the pistol, Strom Daemon, Dispel Scroll

Plague Priest- Plague Censer, Liber Bubonicous, Warpstone Token

Chieftan BSB- Heavy Armour, and Umbranner


28 Clanrats- Mus, Std, and Champ. Equipped with spears. (My four characters start here)

25 Clanrats- Mus, and Std
w/ WFT

25 Clanrats- Mus, and Std
w/ WFT

20 Slaves

20 Slaves

5 Giant Rat Packs

5 Giant Rat Packs

4 Giant Rat Packs

3 Gutter Runners= Poison, tunnel team

3 Gutter Runners- Poison, tunnel team

3 PWG

3 PWG

2 PWG

I don't find they Greyseer that good to be honest I find it hard to get my points worth out of him, the warlord just sits pretty in the stormvermin giving a global ld 10, with re-rolls in melee due to the bsb.

Also im not a fan of giant rats I've never really seen them to be effective and you don't have any combat blocks that can take charges like stormvermin can.

Thanks for comments

Futant
17-07-2009, 09:55
The grey seer is a very excellent spell caster that is fully worth the points in 2000+ Every skaven spell in the book is decent enough and skitter leap is an awesome advantage to have vs. most armies. Not to mention only heavy magic armies will be able to do much when I have 6 dd and 9 (+/- 1) pd with 6 warpstone tokens.






Also im not a fan of giant rats I've never really seen them to be effective and you don't have any combat blocks that can take charges like stormvermin can.



I don't need anything like the storm vermin because they are not that great for 8 points. All you really get out of them +1 ws and +1 str, plus they will probably be the first target of any shooting or magic phase. As for giant rats, I personally love them. You get 7 models for 30 points that have +1 movement. They're main purpose is to attack flanks and protect they're armies flank in the process. With an average cost of 4.3 per model they are very efficient units.

petpetpetpet
21-07-2009, 17:37
The purpose of stormvermin is to win on CR -.-

Anyways to make you Skaven followers happier, here a GS armylist which i will be trying out this week, hopefully it's a little better.

Greyseer
Eye of the horned rat, warpstone amulet, warpstone charm, ring of darkness.

Warlock engineer
All gear, scroll, stormdaemon

Warlock engineer
All gear, scroll, +2 tokens.

Chieftain
BSB, warbanner.

22 Clanrats
FC, ratling gun.

22 Clanrats
FC, ratling gun.

22 Clanrats
FC, wft.

3 globadiers.

2 globadiers.

5 Nighrunners
Additional hand weapons

5 Nighrunners
Additional hand weapons

5 Nighrunners
Additional hand weapons

21 Slaves
Muscian

21 Slaves
Muscian

5 Jezzails

5 Jezzails

4 Gutter runners
Poisoned hand weapons, tunnel team.

4 Gutter runners
Poisoned hand weapons, tunnel team.

Warplightningcannon


It's all of the skyre, skirmishing models I have so hopefully the list maybe a little lamer but a little better.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Pet