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Deff Jaw
12-07-2009, 02:03
Are Deff Rollaz on Battlewagonz worth it?

Joewrightgm
12-07-2009, 02:25
Depends. If the army your facing has lots of stuff to tank shock like infantry heavy guard, other orks, small tyranids like gaunts and the like. Basically any infantry is vulnerable to a deff rolla tank shock.

Give the wagon grot riggers and armor plates to keep it moving, and watch out for melta weapons or chainfists in the units you tank shock.

dal9ll
12-07-2009, 04:43
Yes theyre worth it. It does however depend on how your play group treats rule ambiguities like the tiresome Deff Rolla/Ramming debate/dispute. Im an Orks player myself and at my 'Ard Boyz tourney today our judge ruled that Deff Rollas do work in Ramming. Its pretty fun to bait a Dreadnaught into a Death or Glory! and then get 2D6 S10 hits. :evilgrin:

big squig
12-07-2009, 06:58
Yes theyre worth it. It does however depend on how your play group treats rule ambiguities like the tiresome Deff Rolla/Ramming debate/dispute. Im an Orks player myself and at my 'Ard Boyz tourney today our judge ruled that Deff Rollas do work in Ramming. Its pretty fun to bait a Dreadnaught into a Death or Glory! and then get 2D6 S10 hits. :evilgrin:

Yeah, the deffrolla debate never ends, don't let anyone tell you tat there's an official ruling, but different people play it differently at different places.

Personally, ramming is the most fun part about them if everyone agrees that's how they work.

The_Dragon_Rising
12-07-2009, 07:46
Personally id say yes- re-rolls for terrain tests are never bad but s10 hits can seriously ruin someones day.

Bodysnatcher
12-07-2009, 08:16
Deff Rolla is very nasty against a lot of units. My gaming group and, according to one Ork player I know, the UKGT referees rule that the roller doesn't work on vehicles.
The battlewagon's armour 14 at the front as it is, it doesn't need even more ramming power - plus it stops the silly of 'I go 1" and squish your tank hurhurhur.'.

Staurikosaurus
12-07-2009, 09:11
consider the cost of the rolla, what it does and then decide if you think it's worth it.

Ramming is not Tank Shock BTW. The unit has to have the option of performing a death or glory attack (part of the tank shock and deff rolla rules, but not the ramming rules) for the deff rolla to work. So, you cannot use the deff rolla on a rhino, but you can on a dreadnought.

ICEMANQ
12-07-2009, 09:15
consider the cost of the rolla, what it does and then decide if you think it's worth it.

Ramming is not Tank Shock BTW. The unit has to have the option of performing a death or glory attack (part of the tank shock and deff rolla rules, but not the ramming rules) for the deff rolla to work. So, you cannot use the deff rolla on a rhino, but you can on a dreadnought.


Gag, leave the argument out of this. I let people deff roll my tanks since IMO it's supposed to do that. Strength 10 is great, could possibly use it to cheeky instagib other ork warbosses:p

shabbadoo
12-07-2009, 09:16
Which is why a smart Dreadnought simply steps out of the way. ;)

If you are an aggressive player then yes, deff-rollas are worth it. If you are a more cautious player and hang back, even if only a little bit, because you don't want enemy fire/krak grenades to scratch your red paint job then no, deff-rollas are not worth it and you would be better off putting more gunz on it instead and just sit back and fire.

snottlebocket
12-07-2009, 11:22
Having faced them several times I think deathrolla's are either incredibly good or insanely good depending on whether or not your group allows ramming.

sharkaithegreat
12-07-2009, 13:17
Yes they are definatly worth it, especially against horde armys like guard, 'nids and other orks. It can cut right into the enemys lines, and then you disembark your boyz/nobz/meganobz and cause even more pain!

Always try to take 2, it will make them a lot more survivable.

Awilla the Hun
12-07-2009, 13:26
Yes, for rule of cool. Like boarding planks.

artyboy
12-07-2009, 13:59
consider the cost of the rolla, what it does and then decide if you think it's worth it.

Ramming is not Tank Shock BTW. The unit has to have the option of performing a death or glory attack (part of the tank shock and deff rolla rules, but not the ramming rules) for the deff rolla to work. So, you cannot use the deff rolla on a rhino, but you can on a dreadnought.

Look at the rulebook again. It specifically says "ramming is a special form of tank shock" in the rules for ramming. It couldn't be more obvious that it should work. I have yet to have an opponent tell me that it doesn't. Whether or not you decide that it works against vehicles they're still worth the points and are capable of doing a ridiculous amount of damage.

SirSnipes
12-07-2009, 14:02
i use my deffrollas to destroy vehicles 1d6 s10 hits is awsome

CEO Kasen
12-07-2009, 14:44
Which is why a smart Dreadnought simply steps out of the way. ;)

Sometimes it works. Absurdly risky, but sometimes it does; I've seen a Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought pick up a battle-wagon by its deff-rolla and flip it over onto its Nob passengers, pinning the crap out of them.



If you are an aggressive player then yes, deff-rollas are worth it. If you are a more cautious player and hang back, even if only a little bit, because you don't want enemy fire/krak grenades to scratch your red paint job then no, deff-rollas are not worth it and you would be better off putting more gunz on it instead and just sit back and fire.

And if you're not an aggressive player, what are you doing playing Orks? :p

Deff Jaw
13-07-2009, 01:53
So wait a minute it doesn't say in the Rule book that battlewagons can't use deff rollaz against vehicles?

artyboy
13-07-2009, 03:46
So wait a minute it doesn't say in the Rule book that battlewagons can't use deff rollaz against vehicles?

Actually, if you look at the rulebook and then look at the rules for deffrollaz it's pretty obvious that they do work against vehicles.

Lazarus15
13-07-2009, 04:17
Here Here ^. People that say it doesn't are usually the same people who try and debate the rules to such a point that it ruins the hobby for everyone else.

Staurikosaurus
13-07-2009, 04:19
Can tanks perform death or glory? Try reading the rulebook.

Oh wait, I guess YOUR fun is more important so moving your Battlewagon 1" into a rhino justifies those S10 hits.

artyboy
13-07-2009, 04:40
Can tanks perform death or glory? Try reading the rulebook.

Oh wait, I guess YOUR fun is more important so moving your Battlewagon 1" into a rhino justifies those S10 hits.

It has nothing to do with whether or not the target unit can perform death or glory or not. If they can then they have the option of taking 2d6 instead of 1d6 str 10 hits before their death or glory.

"If the unit elects to make a death or glory attack, it takes a further d6 str 10 hits in addition to the usual effects."

If the unit can't elect to make a death or glory attack then it doesn't get a death or glory attack and it can't elect to take the extra d6 str 10 hits. It all seems pretty simple to me.

shabbadoo
13-07-2009, 12:04
Deff-rollas can only be used in a Tank Shock. Tank shock is not Ramming. One requires LD check, one does not. Vehicles cannot be Tank-Shocked, ergo the deff-rolla doesn't work on them. The deff-rolla rules, and the FAQ, only refer to one of them- tank shock. And no, walker vehicles cannot be Tank-Shocked either, so the deff-rolla doesn't work against them at all either. A Walker vehicle cannot be Tank shocked either, but it can Death or Glory, which leads some people to think that Walkers are affected by the deff-rolla. They are not, as a Walker that fails in a Death or Glory attack is merely Rammed instead, and deff-rollas do nothing with regards to Ramming. People are wanting to see something that is simply not there, and when of course the official GW guy who deals with rules says the deff-rolla has no effect on vehicles, well then he must be on drugs/insane/not know what he is talking about. And then of course the tournament pack rules back it up by saying the same thing as well.

Nope. All these sources are just completely wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. :rolleyes:

Staurikosaurus
13-07-2009, 12:11
Let me put it this way then. Where in the ork codex does it say you can use the rolla during ramming? Oh wait, it doesn't.

BobTheZombie
13-07-2009, 12:28
Let me put it this way then. Where in the ork codex does it say you can use the rolla during ramming? Oh wait, it doesn't.

I don't think this argument is logically sound. It refers to tank shock, and only tank shock. The fact that no reference is made to ramming does not mean that you can assume that the D6 S10 hits will also apply as it doesn't tell you that you can't. The "where does it say you can't" method of justification can be used to justify a lot of things, and in my experience none of them have been valid.

Back on topic, yes, I believe they are worth it. The fear they engender in your opponent alone would make them a lot of fun. I'll be picking up a couple of the upgrade sprues when they come out, and another Battlewagon.

Lazarus15
15-07-2009, 02:09
Yeah because the ork book was around before 5th ed, not the other way around.