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Awilla the Hun
12-07-2009, 13:46
-Puffy sleeved?

-Posessed of large codpieces on the models?

scarletsquig
12-07-2009, 13:51
Yes. They were. :)

Duke Georgal
12-07-2009, 14:34
I love puffy sleeves!

They were fun to paint, and made the models look great. They helped give Empire a unique feel in the fantasy world.

I hate the newer plastics that lack them.

Awilla the Hun
12-07-2009, 14:37
Same here, but there are still a few puffy sleeves. (The State Troops Champion has them, as do the Pistoliers.)

And the codpieces?

Ozorik
12-07-2009, 14:49
If anything they should be more puffy!

http://www.german-hosiery-museum.de/geschichte/einzelseiten/Bild07_03.htm

Empire infantry are based upon Landsknechtes

Griefbringer
12-07-2009, 14:53
Depends on your definition of always - the classical Perry ones from 1991 started the puffy sleeve movement big time.

On models before that, the puffy sleeves were relatively uncommon:

http://www.solegends.com/citcat912/index.htm

Alathir
12-07-2009, 14:59
I'd like to see more puff on the State Troops, sad to see the new models lacking them for the most part.

Tokamak
12-07-2009, 15:02
Yes, but you're not required to do so in your army if you don't like it.

I think the empire has really improved in character in this edition.

Curufew
12-07-2009, 15:24
Yup, I love their puffyness. I would always buy those 5/6th edition Empire state troops when I was given a chance to.

Caboose123
12-07-2009, 18:33
I like the puffy sleeves.
The giant codpieces are oversized but as one person once said: "Enemies try to hit your nads so often that you might as well have the biggest codpiece you can imagine."

And the bare-footedness? Truly horrible...

Lord Dan
12-07-2009, 18:47
Ironically the bare-footed model is the one with the intricate twin-tailed comet detail on his plate armor.

...so he spent all his money on the armor and had none left for shoes, I guess. :)

Erethor
13-07-2009, 00:01
My thoughts on the newer Empire models:

Needs More Shoes
Needs More Puff
Needs More Codpiece :p

Seriously though, the older models I found characterful and fun to paint. The new models...they are certainly more detailed, but not as fun and feel rather bland. My opinion anyways.

WodenMHC
13-07-2009, 01:15
Definitely the puffiness and feathers were established in the early 90s.

On another note regarding the State Troops, I love how some of their faces/heads provided display a look of abject horror. I take all these "scared" looking Empire heads and use them in the front rank of my units, so the effect is something like: "HOLY CRAP IT'S A SHAGGOTH!"

Hilarious.

Thanks for your time!

txamil
13-07-2009, 01:39
I hate Empire models. More than once I have thought about doing a Witch hunter themed army, but the models are unsavable. I actually like the rules for Empire. But the puffy sleeves and for some reason every fighter in the Empire is about 40 years old??

Ugly,ugly models. And WodenMHC is right. They almost all look they are about to run off the table. Pussies.

Griefbringer
13-07-2009, 07:59
I think the sculptors have been ordered to tone down the size of the codpieces in the Empire range - this would then allow making massive codpiece a distinctive design element for the Fishmen when they come out.

Adeptus Mechanicus
13-07-2009, 09:10
Thank God for the Empire. A unique looking human army in wargaming and not your run of the mill high fantasy knights in shining armour and 17-year old kids without a strain of hair on the chin swinging swords the size of a wizards tower and toppling dragons left and right. They need more puff, more beards and more blackpowder. Oh yes.

Dr Death
13-07-2009, 09:42
Seriously though, the older models I found characterful and fun to paint. The new models...they are certainly more detailed, but not as fun and feel rather bland.

I take the opposite view to be honest- i think the older models were pretty bland. The detail on these new guys really does give them a lot of personality: a real religious, supersticious, dirty look to them. If they were sculpted with puffy sleeves then they would be twenty shades of marvellous (a couple of the older heads would be nice too).

Personally i think that the puffy sleeves actually make the models look cooler and more threatening, not less. They increase the apparent size of the major muscle groups in the limbs making the wearer look totally pumped. Its like bomber jackets- absurd garment but bloody hell- see a skinhead in one of those and you know to keep your distance.

Dr Death

Commodus Leitdorf
13-07-2009, 11:08
I want to expand my army...but I find it SOOO hard to do with troops lacking puffy sleeves! I'll eventually do it...but the sight of them on the table will make all my other Averland forces look at them with pity...

mikepm07
13-07-2009, 18:05
Empire models look incredibly goofy.

Fix: Get Bretonnian Men-At-Arms and order a bunch of Empire sword arms from the state troop sprue (use ebay or other bit sellers.)

Caboose123
13-07-2009, 18:42
Agreed, a few fixes:

Bret men at arms, replace arms with appropriate equipment.
Base your Troops off the new huntsmen, greatswords or even the old militia models. ()

Lord Dan
13-07-2009, 20:31
Wow, I don't think they're THAT bad.

ZeroTwentythree
14-07-2009, 14:26
There's obviously an objectively "right" and "wrong" look to the Empire. I'm glad some people are clarifying which is which. :rolleyes:



To expand on Griefbringer's comments about their evolution...

When I first started, the illustrations of "Empire" troops looked more like late medieval with fantasy elements, just before the "puff & slash" phase. The figures were labeled "fighter" but later the earliest labeled "Empire" troops were the same figures:


http://www.solegends.com/citcat89autumn/c89aut-074102-1-02.htm
http://www.solegends.com/citcat89autumn/c89aut-074102-2-02.htm
http://www.solegends.com/citcat89autumn/c89aut-074102-3-02.htm
http://www.solegends.com/citcat89autumn/c89aut-074102-4-02.htm



The first "puff & slash" Empire I remember coincided with the 4th edition Empire list. I believe it was released in advance as a series of WD articles before 4th edition even came out. The first figures were metal. Some of them had separate bodies & arms, so you could "plug in" different weapons to make different troops. Here's a few of those:

http://www.solegends.com/citcat9x3/c92358empinfantry-02.htm


So according to Stuff of Legends, the switch from fantasy medieval to "puff & slash" was somewhere around 1991-1992.

MercuryLamp
14-07-2009, 18:33
The bigger sleeves, tights, grooves, et cetera on the older models provided opportunities for shading and use of a secondary color that you just don't have on the new models, who look like they're wearing jumpsuits.

ZeroTwentythree
14-07-2009, 20:11
The bigger sleeves, tights, grooves, et cetera on the older models provided opportunities for shading and use of a secondary color that you just don't have on the new models, who look like they're wearing jumpsuits.



Or unitards.

:eek:

Commodus Leitdorf
14-07-2009, 20:17
Or unitards.

:eek:

Chaos Warrior: "Oh no! Were being attacked by an amateur production of Peter Pan! Run!"

Caboose123
15-07-2009, 00:58
Well, I'd certainly flee from that!

Empire troops cause fear now? :p

scarletsquig
15-07-2009, 03:12
Nothing wrong with turning up to battle in body stockings.

Probably pretty comfortable, in fact.

Hakkapelli
15-07-2009, 10:28
At least it explains why the state troopers keep failing Ld tests. Unitards may be comfortable but it's not a uniform you can be proud about.

zoggin-eck
15-07-2009, 12:19
The bigger sleeves, tights, grooves, et cetera on the older models provided opportunities for shading and use of a secondary color that you just don't have on the new models, who look like they're wearing jumpsuits.

Couldn't agree more mate