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OrderOfEntropy
13-07-2009, 02:37
I am playing my first 1000 point game against my friend's TK army on Wednesday, and I was wondering if any one had some suggestions on fighting TK's. I have never beaten the guy's Lizardmen with my WoC, but hopefully I will be able to stomp his TKs with your help!:)

Drachen_Jager
13-07-2009, 04:21
Str 7 hits on chariot units will bring him down quickly. Bring some Khorne marked units, he can't flee and with the extra attacks and immunity to his fear you'll rack up some good combat resolution, Khorne is, I believe, the best WoC mark vs any undead.

Lord Dralnu
13-07-2009, 05:25
Mark of slaanesh is great and cost effective as well; perhaps puts slaanesh on large marauder blocks and units of horsemen if you take them, maybe on warriors as well if you don't have the points for Khorne.

I agree with Drachen, Khorne looks great vs. undead, especially on knights, and on warriors if you find the points.

I wouldn't worry about the game too much, you'll most likely have an inherent advantage as TK are really hard pressed to perform well at 1000 pts, and anything below 2k really is a challenge for them. They simply can't produce a strong enough magic phase (the heart of their army) at those levels without sacrificing a lot from the rest of their list.

Let us know how you fare!

OrderOfEntropy
13-07-2009, 09:27
Thanks for the advice. I never thought of using khorne (i have had bad experiences with fleeing skinks), I forgot that undead have to hold. A Disk hero with a fail should keep his chariots at bay.

Red_Duke
13-07-2009, 13:39
You really shouldnt have a problem at 1k vs TK. Khorne btw isnt actually that great vs undead, as they will bait with a cheap disposable unit, then flank your tasty expensive unit with something horrible. That, or bait with something horrible like a scorpion, which if you dont have plenty of static CR you might not even kill!

TBH i'd take Slaanesh every day of the week vs any undead - immune to fear and terror cannot be underestimated! (plus immune to panic can be quite handy too)

Best way to beat TK at that points level is simply magic denial. If they can't cast spells they lose. simple as that.

Ophidian
13-07-2009, 14:26
Frankly, I wouldn't be *too* worried about chariots - they're not that brutal (well, unless he ends up taking absolute rafts). Have someone or something mobile with S7 and you're laughing - Dragon Ogres would be awesome, but maybe a bit pricey at 1k.

I would be worried about Scorpions. Vicious and cheap, I would be taking 2 at least, and at 1000 the only thing likely to be able to deal with them (disc exalted, frex) would be extremely vulnerable to it.

Witchblade
13-07-2009, 15:01
Khornate knights will slaughter everything bar a tomb king with the destroyer of eternities.

You shouldn't face any real problems.

EndlessBug
13-07-2009, 15:06
do remember you're using a new book and he isn't. Tailoring lists is kinda harsh tbh. taking a flying s7 hero and 2 mages with anti magic items isn't very friendly, would you take them against every other army?

Just build a decent list which isn't tailored, you have the advantage already seeing as you've got the new list.

Griffery
13-07-2009, 17:01
I agree with Drachen, khrone is probably the best thing you can take against undead. The ITP and frenzy is very helpful. No pesky fear checks. I would suggest you use a block of 12 warriors with MoK. I play against VC regularly and pretty much in every game I play I take two units of Khorne knights. It is a low point game so I dont't think I would do this. Use a couple units of hounds to screen and you should be fine. MoS is good but I normally only take it on marauders because they only have 7Ld and not as much killing power as warriors. You shouldnt have to worry about SCR that much with warriors or knights.

grhino
14-07-2009, 09:21
I think as a Tomb King player I'd go for Scorpions and a Screaming Skull catapult. A unit of chariots is nice, but any chaos hero with a flail (as all should have) is a pain in the ****. Magical movement is necessary, so make sure as a chaos player to take some magical defence. Don't worry about his skellies, any khornate unit will make easy work of them. Get some khornate marauders with HW+shields to do that job and make sure you outnumber the enemy. Put a flail wielding hero on the side any chariots might attack. No need for warriors, although a unit of Knights will be great! Also, take marauder horsemen with flails to take out scorpions and the catapult. Cheap and numerous, with strong leaders will win you the game!

Remember Khorne makes you invulnerable to psychology as long as you do not lose a combat!

Give Horsemen MOS.

bork da basher
14-07-2009, 09:23
a exalted of tzeentch on a disc with GW will plough through chariots like no ones business and then be good for liche/catapult hunting.`

Lord Khabal
14-07-2009, 09:25
Go go khorne knights all the way! a roaring tzeentch hero on disc with flail is also pretty clever in order to destroy the chariots and eventual casket/catapult.

SilentStalker
14-07-2009, 16:52
The only problem with the Khorne knights is baiting in such a small game. The TK player can have a unit of 5 fast cav for 70 points, and use incantations to place them in the perfect baiting position after drawing out your dice with other incantations. Also scorpions are GREAT flankers for 85 points that can munch through your fast stuff (bar knights). If one of them hits your knight in the flank it will probably hold for at least one turn depending if it kills one or not. Remember scorpions have 4 attacks at str 5 with poison and KB, and crumble one less then they lose combat. In the flank of your knights on the charge will hit twice and wound once (rounding number), so on average will have a better than 50/50 chance at killing one (due to KB).

Drachen_Jager
14-07-2009, 17:03
Yeah, but the WoC player can have a unit of Warhounds for 30 points which covers his flank and/or blocks a corner of the Knight unit so it can't be baited.

It's not that tricky to avoid baiting, aside from which you're proposing sacrificing 155 points to hopefully (if the dice favour you) slow down 270 points, doesn't sound like a very good deal to me.

SilentStalker
14-07-2009, 17:17
Thing is the scorpions can begin burrowed, and the shooting can take care of the single screen. Thing is the 270 points is over 1 quarter of the WoC army.
2 hits, 2/3 wounds and the knights save 2/3 so 4/9 chance to wound the knight (not taking into account the poison or KB.
on the return, if the knight isn't dead, 3 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound.
if the scorpion wounds, knights have banner and outnumber to the 1 wound of the scorpion, TK lose by 1 but construct rule makes it so that no wounds from losing by 1. If the knight does wound, the knights win by 3 and the scorpion loses 2 wounds. Either way the scorpion on average will survive the first round, crumble or die the second round, critically holding the knights in place during their turn, possibly killing one. I would sacrifice a 85 point scorpion to achieve that any day, giving the TK a chance to set up a counter charge to hit either the other flank or by this point have fast cav in place to redirect the knights (as they still have frenzy), having dealt with any screens the turn prior.

Drachen_Jager
14-07-2009, 17:34
Yeah... Well everything sounds so simple.

It's funny to watch this kind of theoryhammer meet the actual tabletop game. I can't count the number of times I've been told my Khorne Knights are useless because they can be so easily dealt with, not one player who's told me in detail about the drawbacks of frenzy has ever managed to make it work on the tabletop, in fact I can't recall a single time where I was successfully baited and flanked as you're talking about, and that's through a GT and several smaller tourneys.

OrderOfEntropy
14-07-2009, 19:48
Keep in mind that due to the scattering sub-rule of burrow the scropion is very unlikely to appear on the flank. Or cleaver deploying will prevent the tomb scorpion ever reaching the knights and don't forget that a lot of people give knights a warbanner.

OrderOfEntropy
16-07-2009, 03:31
Game has been postponed due to the other play "not feeling like it". Which I suspect means that he did not think he could easily win, therefore did not play.

Grey
16-07-2009, 11:14
Shame. I would have loved to hear a battle report, I'm looking forward to some battles of the same size.

Drachen_Jager
16-07-2009, 19:48
Game has been postponed due to the other play "not feeling like it". Which I suspect means that he did not think he could easily win, therefore did not play.

That's lame, I'm always looking for a challenge rather than trying to avoid one, I haven't played much lately but in my old group there weren't any really tough opponents. I enjoy winning but I'd rather lose a closely fought game than win by a massacre all the time.